OohMartWright Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, CHCDerby said: We took a point, not great but not bad either. We have players coming back in the squad with games coming up at home. We’d all have taken play offs and a good cup run at the start of the season. That's far too reasonable for this forum. Never let the facts get in the way of a good meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Personally i feel that failing to get Thorne fit enough and integrated back into the team was our error here... Having both of them in the squad would have allowed us much more breathing space when either got injured/knackered How is not getting Thorne fit our, or his for that matter, error? He has complex injuries that probably can't be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just looking at Huddlestone’s appearances over the years, the 46 games we got out of him last season was the most he’s played in a season in the last 10 years. No great surprise having spent most of his career in the Premier League with less games to play, we’re asking a lot out of an aging player to recover for the midweek games in the Championship, the season Hull came down he only started 27. Did last season hit the legs hard? Did he have another full Championship season in his legs? Are midweek games too much? Not knocking Tom, we’re a better team with him in, but the above questions are valid and worth consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: I think you're right but, whilst we having this love in for Hudds, let's not forget that even the mighty Tom has been criticised for being too slow, getting caught in possession etc. I like Huddlestone but think we need a Hudds+ model if we can find one. Until his injuries Thorne looked like a contender (although he is also a little slow at times). It remains to be seen if Thorne can reproduce that form that caused us all to wet ourselves when we captured him from WBA. A hudds+ model will be playing in the upper prem if not the champions league. The only reason he’s with us is he’s slow. If everyone else actually did their jobs instead of running around like kids desperate to impress their dad with a cheeky stepover/ dribble then it wouldn’t be such an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Isn’t Keogh the same age ? Not sure why you feel that Huddlestone can’t complete 3 games in a week, is this based on anything factual or something FL has said, or just guessing ? Once again not saying he can or can’t do it, however it seems to be a reason that is being given and I’m wondering on what basis. Just posted Huddlestone’s appearances over the last 10 seasons before I saw this post. All players have different fitness levels for a start, Keogh has spent his career in the Football League playing week in week out. Huddlestone has spent the majority of his career in the Premier League with fewer games. No factual evidence to suggest Huddlestone can or can’t play 3 games in a week, but it’s a theory worth considering given he’s just come off the back of a 46 game season which is the most he’s played in 10 years and now in a team looking to up the tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Also, a lack of mobility doesn't come from choosing not to run as much. It comes from being unable to. Under Rowett he didn't move, and played 46 games, but in his more recent performances he has actually been sprinting (to good effect) to help out defensively. If you push your body to do things it's not very good at it, it usually isn't too grateful in the days after. If you want him to play every game here on out, you tell him to stand still. Then I'll look forward to the complaints as the opposition midfield runs rings around him like they did plenty earlier in the season and under Rowett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 52 minutes ago, David said: It’s not a cop out, take Jack Marriott for example, nobody could understand why he wasn’t playing, the Dud thread appeared and week in week vocal demands for him to play. Turns out he wasn’t fit enough for the demands of the Championship which Jack himself confirmed. Even recently when he was missing from the line up “why has Jack been dropped”, turns out he was ill then injured, but at 2pm we didn’t know this having all named him in our team for the game all week online. So no, it’s not a cop out, we all just assume players are 100% fit and ready to play as if they are machines, if they are not in the 11 Lampard has had a mare. Asking the question is Huddlestone capable of playing 3 games in a week is a fair one, and one that should be taken into consideration before grabbing the pitchforks. Likewise with Bryson. Where was Evans last night? Does anybody know yet, was he fully fit and completely left out or is he carrying a knock. I’m not saying Lampard can not ever be questioned on his team selections, I’m sure he has left fully fit players out that some of us may believe would have been game changers. But let’s also remember when being critical we are completely ignorant to players fitness levels, injury status and how much they have trained through the week. Information that isn’t public so not to give the opposition a heads up. [insert Bielsa joke here]. Picking out one example of a player with an injury doesn't prove its not a cop out - there are many other selections where such information is not known and selection is not down to injuries. When Lampard kept the same winning team in our league Cup run it stood out and was effective . After that some of the 'tinkerings' have been surprising and the results not favourable. Perhaps its part of the Chelsea culture that he has acquired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: A hudds+ model will be playing in the upper prem if not the champions league. The only reason he’s with us is he’s slow. If everyone else actually did their jobs instead of running around like kids desperate to impress their dad with a cheeky stepover/ dribble then it wouldn’t be such an issue You may be right. However, I'm sure I've seen some midfield players from other championship teams (admittedly,I can't name them right now) come to PP and run the show with their energy and overall ability so I'm not sure they're all in the Premier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: You may be right. However, I'm sure I've seen some midfield players from other championship teams (admittedly,I can't name them right now) come to PP and run the show with their energy and overall ability so I'm not sure they're all in the Premier. But we don’t need energy, we need someone with some bleeding composure that isn’t like a wild dog been let free. There’s Plenty of good midfielders in the championship, but none in Huddlestones role who are better than him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, David said: Just posted Huddlestone’s appearances over the last 10 seasons before I saw this post. All players have different fitness levels for a start, Keogh has spent his career in the Football League playing week in week out. Huddlestone has spent the majority of his career in the Premier League with fewer games. No factual evidence to suggest Huddlestone can or can’t play 3 games in a week, but it’s a theory worth considering given he’s just come off the back of a 46 game season which is the most he’s played in 10 years and now in a team looking to up the tempo. My own view is that TH absence had nothing to do with his fitness levels, he is t really a player that covers lots of yardage and you can say his levels dip because of this, hence why he was on the bench. FL alluded to in his interview that BJ had looked good in training, and imo he put him on the team because he has more mobility about him than TH. If FL had thought TH was the better option, he could easily have started him and played him for 60-70 minutes and monitored his levels, however he choose not to do that, same as he didn’t play him much earlier in the season, and if reports are true, was happy for him to leave the club. TH won’t be a regular next season, I’d be surprised if he is at the club, FL wants a high tempo pressing game, Tom doesn’t fit into them plans, hence why Evans was brought in, hence why we went with different options last night, nothing wrong with it, progression is what is needed but that’s my own theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, DRBee said: Picking out one example of a player with an injury doesn't prove its not a cop out - there are many other selections where such information is not known and selection is not down to injuries. When Lampard kept the same winning team in our league Cup run it stood out and was effective . After that some of the 'tinkerings' have been surprising and the results not favourable. Perhaps its part of the Chelsea culture that he has acquired. And it’s difficult to offer more evidence and that’s the point, we just don’t know do we unless the manager and player both come out and tell us as they did with Jack. Although if you fancy going through the match threads when the team was announced, I bet you will find many examples of rage a player wasn’t playing to later find out they were left out through injury with no apology. Fitness issues are more tricky as some (Old school) believe if you’re fit enough for the bench, you’re fit enough to play. Problem is they don’t sit there with visable percentage meters above their heads, you have to believe that the manager and his staff that work with the players week in week out know what they are capable of better than us. I accept the manager can make the wrong calls, Huddlestone may have been one last night, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think @SaintRam nailed it all earlier about consistency. Lets face it has their been a player who’s not had a ‘is he good enough?’ style thread that hasn’t divided opinion? There’s only really Keogh who’s had a consistent season performance wise. The rest, even if they are your favourite player, you have to say they’ve been up and down. Look at Bryson, two weeks ago people on here were saying he’s had it and now he’s starting to look the difference maker. Said it weeks ago now, but we haven’t got enough consistent 7/10’s performers, they go from 9/10 down to 5/10 in a matter of games. That’s been the major issue with the players we’ve signed under all the previous regimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfonzoBurlonzo Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I don't think Lampard's team selection was to blame at all. Yes, we are a better team with Huddlestone - but we should've won that game of football. Would Huddlestone have prevented Bogle from passing it straight to their player and them charging on the counter-attack? Ipswich were toothless all night and hardly created anything until we handed them a goal on a silver platter. We made yet another individual mistake which has cost us a goal - that had a 1-0 win written all over it but for some reason we can't defend like we did against Preston when we're 1-0 up against a team who are pretty poo lets be fair. Ipswich were poo and we couldn't beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, AdamRam said: My own view is that TH absence had nothing to do with his fitness levels, he is t really a player that covers lots of yardage and you can say his levels dip because of this, hence why he was on the bench. FL alluded to in his interview that BJ had looked good in training, and imo he put him on the team because he has more mobility about him than TH. If FL had thought TH was the better option, he could easily have started him and played him for 60-70 minutes and monitored his levels, however he choose not to do that, same as he didn’t play him much earlier in the season, and if reports are true, was happy for him to leave the club. TH won’t be a regular next season, I’d be surprised if he is at the club, FL wants a high tempo pressing game, Tom doesn’t fit into them plans, hence why Evans was brought in, hence why we went with different options last night, nothing wrong with it, progression is what is needed but that’s my own theory. Would you not say that he has been covering more yards than he is used to, possibly resulting in being unable to play games with a quick turn around? Fitness, Legs, Mobility, Tempo, Throw it all in the mixer and we drinking the same smoothie here in that Huddlestone isn’t a player that we can rely on week in week out with the football Lampard wants to play. I also would be surprised if he’s still at the club next year, the rumoured move to Italy made a lot of sense for him personally, just not for us right now, used sparingly he’s still an asset for us for the remainder of the season. In the summer we need to be looking for a more permanent long term solution as from what we have seen from Evans so far, I’m not sure we have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Srg said: Think he can still be criticised for picking players that have no future at the club, are certainly leaving, don't fit the team identity, have been banned for biting and haven't kicked a ball in anger for months. Frank was recently criticised for putting youth players on the bench in place of the players with ‘no future’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector74 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I hope he didn't rest him for the cup and it back fired. Or Frank might not rate him otherwise he wouldn't of tired to sell him in the transfer window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Frank was recently criticised for putting youth players on the bench in place of the players with ‘no future’ God help those poor souls that saw an issue in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Was George Evans unavailable last night? I realise he hasn't exactly been pulling up trees, but i thought the way frank had been thinking was to use GE when he wanted to be more defensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think it is worrying, we are no doubt a better team with TH in it. In fact TH with Mount and Wilson is imo the best we have looked. But we could be without all of them next season. The worry is, is how hard can it be to replace Tom ? My thoughts would be that on past form Thorne would be made for it but we all know what has happened to him, I see BJ as more attacking but he does have the bite (no pun intended) but not the coolness in possession, Ledley seemed to defend positionally well but little else. Bryson is a completely different kettle of Fish and I have yet to see what Evans is all about really. Not seem King yet. I still desperately have my fingers crossed that Thorne can storm back to former glories but he is hardly getting in the Luton side at the moment. If we go up we will need £30m spent on the midfield and that scares me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Hector74 said: I hope he didn't rest him for the cup and it back fired. Or Frank might not rate him otherwise he wouldn't of tired to sell him in the transfer window eh? we were actively trying to sell him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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