Rowett ball v Lampard way

[Warren Hobhead]

9 hours ago, McLovin said:

It’s certainly a valid point to make. We scored more and conceded less under Rowett at this stage last season and neither have been particularly good to watch. When we are on it like against West Brom and first half of Boro, it looks good but for the majority of the time it hasn’t been great. I don’t buy that this is a transition season, if that was the case, why are we relying on players who won’t be here next season. I’ve felt that this season is the one where we are going for it and the transition season will be next season when players’ contracts are up and the loan players go back to their parent clubs.

This, in spades. 

 

This isn’t a transitional season at all. We’ve spent plenty and we’ve gone proper short term with much of our business. You only have to look at our so-called best players. They’re kids on loan we can’t ever keep. Fact is, Lampard has been allowed to practically build his own side, even to the point that we’ve got his mate Ashley in at 38. 

What are we transitioning to? 

We look to be rebuilding from scratch near enough this summer coming.

 

On topic, I wasn’t a fan of Rowett but it was effective stuff. I was initially excited by us under Frank and sometimes I see glimpses of joy. But all in all, deep into the season, I’m not too pleased and I’m actually shocked that we are in the playoff mix.

[Alph]

Started well, lots of signs of naive team, mistakes made and forgiven 

But we've stopped making progress now. We've gone very sort of robotic. Like we are grinding. 

But Rowett bored me to tears. He was overrated and he was a reactive manager. 

I keep reading we had more points and goals etc but I was still bored. Definitely. 

I do want Lampard's team to get back on track though. The pressing has gone, the passing has dropped off and the game management is as bad as ever. Maybe we needed new faces to freshen things up?

[sunnyhill60]

1 hour ago, Warren Hobhead said:

This, in spades. 

 

This isn’t a transitional season at all. We’ve spent plenty and we’ve gone proper short term with much of our business. You only have to look at our so-called best players. They’re kids on loan we can’t ever keep. Fact is, Lampard has been allowed to practically build his own side, even to the point that we’ve got his mate Ashley in at 38. 

What are we transitioning to? 

We look to be rebuilding from scratch near enough this summer coming.

 

On topic, I wasn’t a fan of Rowett but it was effective stuff. I was initially excited by us under Frank and sometimes I see glimpses of joy. But all in all, deep into the season, I’m not too pleased and I’m actually shocked that we are in the playoff mix.

"rebuilding from scratch near enough this summer coming"

Marriott and Holmes have shown plenty and they are ours. 

" I’m actually shocked that we are in the playoff mix."

Taking a look at what happens when we have played Premier League teams, being shocked is ridiculous

[RamNut]

Starting on 22/12 we played 5 consecutive games against 5 of the top 6, picking up 5 points from 5 games. We lost to Leeds and sheff utd who are two of the best teams in this division. That was a tough run.

since then four points from two games 

the next 15 games are all against teams outside the top 6. This is our chance. I think we stand a good chance of equalling or beating our points tally from last season of 74.

To have lost vydra and still achieve that would be quite good imo. Lets wait and see.

[toddy]

I keep reading the transitional word in various posts.

But surely we have been in transtional state every season since 2013 under Mac 1 .

We have had 7 managers since 2013?

Its a cop out word used as an excuse alot of times. After all are Leeds and Norwich in a transitional state? No.

We may have less pts at this stage of the season when comparing to Rowett. But look how the football on the pitch has improved, we have a small squad we have injuries. I do believe Frank will get it right, yes he will make mistakes, but i do believe he will learn from them.

Once we have a full strength side back we can match anybody in this league.

COYR

[DCFC1976]

We went to Man Utd under Rowett in the cup last year and barely registered a shot on target. Compare that to this season when arguably we were the better team. I know Utd were not playing well this year but they were not flying last year?

No doubt Lampard has made a few mistakes but he was bound to, overall I think he is doing a good job.

 

[i-Ram]

Frank is doing alright in my book.  

The loss of Forsyth and Davies as options, and the experience they offered, cannot be discounted.  The weak form of some of our experienced players (Bryson, Nugent, Wisdom and Lawrence) cannot be discounted. They need to step it up, or sit more regularly on the bench. The inconsistency that you get when blooding youth, even quality youth, is another factor that makes it difficult to build momentum.

Hopefully King will bring us a bit more control in midfield, and Cole still retains some of his immense quality to make us more secure at the back, and if so we can start grinding out a few more 3 point gains over the next couple of weeks, and with that confidence and actual performances should start improving. 

We have arguably a favourable fixture list ahead, so now is not the time to lose faith.  I still think we will get to the play-offs, and when we do l would much, much, prefer to have Frank on the touchline than Gary bloody Rowett.

[BramcoteRam84]

The question to ask is with the obvious financial constraints we have, where would we be if Rowett was still here? I think we’d be bottom half and nowhere near the promotion race. That side towards the end of last season looked arthritic!! There is a vibrance and energy to us now, we’re playing youth again and building for the future. This season was always transition and Frank is doing a great job whether we make the playoffs or not.

[CornwallRam]

433 always becomes less effective as the season progresses. Teams know exactly how we'll play and exactly when to press. 

Also, a few games back Frank mentioned the need to tighten up at the back. Since then the full backs have hardly ventured past the half way line. That's removed all our attacking width and made us even easier to nullify. McClaren did exactly the same thing when we let in two late goals against Birmingham. In both cases it's turned us from being a lovely side to watch to being an average side with occasional flashes of brilliance. The daft thing is, in both cases it's also made the results worse.

[Err ram io]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Starting on 22/12 we played 5 consecutive games against 5 of the top 6, picking up 5 points from 5 games. We lost to Leeds and sheff utd who are two of the best teams in this division. That was a tough run.

since then four points from two games 

the next 15 games are all against teams outside the top 6. This is our chance. I think we stand a good chance of equalling or beating our points tally from last season of 74.

To have lost vydra and still achieve that would be quite good imo. Lets wait and see.

As RàmNut says (see above) the fixture list now begins to work in our favour! 

Even little things like the fact that Bristol now must travel to Preston next weekend. If they can go there and pull a 2-0 win out of the hat we can hold our hands up and say "well done". But more likely Preston will win.

Leeds were the team of the moment as were West Brom...both lost last weekend to other top six rivals.

Watching the Leeds-Norwich game I was interested to see how badly cut up the pitch looked! (was I wrong about this?).

Our pitch looked better when the youth team had a run out the other night!

INJURIES

What ALL managers need is luck with injuries. Good managers will build for injury cover and their teams will plan for that (players and backroom staff).

Have we been lucky at CB ? Curtis out bad luck. Richard Keogh and FT staying injury free yes good luck so far. 

LB bad luck so far. 

RB good luck so far.

Midfield - I would say that when Mount has been really fit we've looked great. The more we push this line the better...because we want other teams to just think about him...because it allows everyone else to get together with Frank and Jody and get our game going again.

Upfront

I don't know how fit everyone is- but at least we have options here!  FloJo scored vs Hull this season - he could get a run out next weekend ? Holmes was creative vs Accrington for Waggy...none of these 3 really played in striking roles last match. Marriott is coming back. Wilson and Tom Lawrence have goals in them...when played in the right place.

So other teams have plenty to think about here ! 

PROGRESS

Mac vs Clement vs Rowett vs Frank.

I think progress can be measured by applying the following Mantra 

"DCFC expects playoffs" 

So far so good with this team as with previous ones.

SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS

is promotion either this season or next - dont think anybody really cares so long as we continue to develop bright young players...who are managed in a sensible and effective way.

NOTE

A Frank Lampard playoff team will always do a job over a Gary Rowett one. Our semi -final (last year 2018 )showing versus Fulham was no good - unforgivable in fact ! 

Cup runs do aid the thought we can handle the playoff route a little better? 

SUMMARY

Morale seems higher this season amongst the club and its fans. Sure we have a rookie manager but we can attract talented players young and old.

ACID TEST

if Harry Wilson was put in a sealed room tomorrow with a 3 year contract. ....would he sign ? (No agents no offers from other clubs)(just Harry and the contract and the pen).

The contract goes in a sealed envelope and is put in Mels safe until Summer.

Right now if Harry would sign "YES" to that offer - Thats Progress. Even the thought that he would sign now shows we are making Progress.

 

[Err ram io]

32 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Frank is doing alright in my book.  

The loss of Forsyth and Davies as options, and the experience they offered, cannot be discounted.  The weak form of some of our experienced players (Bryson, Nugent, Wisdom and Lawrence) cannot be discounted. They need to step it up, or sit more regularly on the bench. The inconsistency that you get when blooding youth, even quality youth, is another factor that makes it difficult to build momentum.

Hopefully King will bring us a bit more control in midfield, and Cole still retains some of his immense quality to make us more secure at the back, and if so we can start grinding out a few more 3 point gains over the next couple of weeks, and with that confidence and actual performances should start improving. 

We have arguably a favourable fixture list ahead, so now is not the time to lose faith.  I still think we will get to the play-offs, and when we do l would much, much, prefer to have Frank on the touchline than Gary bloody Rowett.

agree with your points - yes top 2 is probably just about beyond us now (barring a strange string of results all working in our favour). Can we hope for a trip to WBA in the cup - it would give us more chance to practise our playoff form indeed !  

As Frank says cup runs are good for the club and winning is a habit....(paraphrased by me).

Has he always had an eye on the playoff route ? Great managers plan for the future! (in sport or the wider world).

mmmmn.

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, Gisby said:

I’m happy to give Frank the rest of this season and the next but hey ho what do I know ?

And what will you then base your 'conclusion' on, where we finish at the end of next season or all the games played to get there?

Not many on here are making a final statement about FL, but some are moving a few of the pieces around. Why some fans have to think that making an assessment now means it is something that has to be acted on in an negative manner is beyond me.

[Gisby]

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

And what will you then base your 'conclusion' on, where we finish at the end of next season or all the games played to get there?

Not many on here are making a final statement about FL, but some are moving a few of the pieces around. Why some fans have to think that making an assessment now means it is something that has to be acted on in an negative manner is beyond me.

Thanks for that @RoyMac5 enjoy what’s left of your weekend. I’m off to have a sip from my glass which is still half full ?

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Gisby said:

Thanks for that @RoyMac5 enjoy what’s left of your weekend. I’m off to have a sip from my glass which is still half full ?

Lol. Why is there a persistent view that making assessments of how things are going, well or badly, as we go along rather than waiting to see what has happened when it is all over, is a negative thing? Hope you still have a glass at the end of next season. ?

[The Key Club King]

Though we have been disappointing of late, I believe that Derby will be in a better place after we release a huge amount off our wage bill in the summer leaving only arguably Anya, Martin, Thorne and Wisdom as high earners who are not really providing any value in relation to their wages. 

Mount, Wilson and Tomori will all leave but their collective experiences have been so valuable to them I would imagine that EPL clubs will be delighted to loan more players out to us, particularly with a leaner squad. 

This season, I suspect we will fall just short of the play-offs and looking at this positively. this will temper expectations somewhat and leave a better atmosphere next season. And I think Frank is too likeable for people to want him sacked unless he fails really badly. 

[Remy the hare]

12 hours ago, Gisby said:

He won’t walk, too much personal pride. He’s an intelligent guy, would have thought through all the ups & downs of football management before committing to this career path, why would he quit at the first sign of adversity???

I’m 100% with giving Frank as much time as he needs. 10th or better is fine with me this season. My point is we just don’t know his mindset as a manager. His legacy as a player could be ruined if this goes wrong and he may decide this before it goes badly wrong. 

He’s spoke of being a future Chelsea manager very much like Bryan Robson was at Man Utd which never happened, great player not so great manager. Robson is now a tour guide on match days in an ambassador role. Frank’s grand plan might not come to fruition.

As I say 10th or better is fine with me, even looking at the current table, the opposition and the favourable remaining fixtures, going up would be like 2007 (a fluke) all over again. We aren’t ready, I looked at Wolves last season and thought yes ready, I look at them now and think “wow” wish it was us 

[McRainy]

The comparison we are making shouldn't be with Rowett, really, but with the managers and teams above us. Farke, Bielsa and Wilder are all playing good football, without huge spending, whilst also managing injuries. All are showing better returns than us, currently. Farke has had a year longer than Lampard, Wilder, two years. 

The test will be if we have achieved similar cohesion and consistency over a similar timeframe. If not, then we would have to judge Lampard's appointment as unsuccessful by that point, as someone else could have done a better job. 

The question we seem to be asking now, is does it look like we are on track for that achievement. 

[Err ram io]

1 minute ago, The Key Club King said:

Though we have been disappointing of late, I believe that Derby will be in a better place after we release a huge amount off our wage bill in the summer leaving only arguably Anya, Martin, Thorne and Wisdom as high earners who are not really providing any value in relation to their wages. 

Mount, Wilson and Tomori will all leave but their collective experiences have been so valuable to them I would imagine that EPL clubs will be delighted to loan more players out to us, particularly with a leaner squad. 

This season, I suspect we will fall just short of the play-offs and looking at this positively. this will temper expectations somewhat and leave a better atmosphere next season. And I think Frank is too likeable for people to want him sacked unless he fails really badly. 

yes forget what I said about locked rooms and contracts -;your views are much more where we want to be VERY sensible ways of getting talented youngsters into the mix to the club.

I think Mel is good to go with specific business models.

Punctuated evolution is something that springs to mind in fact - gradual progress punctuated by bursts of change allowing for success over the longer term.

Cole/king import being the latest burst of change ! 

[i-Ram]

10 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

Though we have been disappointing of late, I believe that Derby will be in a better place after we release a huge amount off our wage bill in the summer leaving only arguably Anya, Martin, Thorne and Wisdom as high earners who are not really providing any value in relation to their wages. 

Mount, Wilson and Tomori will all leave but their collective experiences have been so valuable to them I would imagine that EPL clubs will be delighted to loan more players out to us, particularly with a leaner squad. 

Taking away the different playing style/tactical approach, you have identified the main differences between Lampard and Rowett.

1) Would Rowett have given Bogle, Roos, Bennett, Bird and Lowe any significant playing opportunities this season? Particularly in the context that Mount, Wilson and Fik were already part of the team. That is a resounding no. 

2) Would Rowett have any chance of convincing Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City to let us blood any of their top talents. Absolutely no chance.  

[FindernRam]

Well I certainly set the hares running with a simple question! More differing views then Brexit.

Trying to distil the many intelligent comments right down I end up with this:

We do not have a settled team now due to injuries, that is killing our form

We do not expect a settled squad at beginning of next season due to loanees departing, oldies/out of favour players leaving at end of contract. Long term injuries that may or may not result in the player returning to his previous best!

We are playing (mostly) better football than under Rowett. 

Nobody has said ditch Frank.

Its renewal time so before I blow the pension I have to consider how next year will pan out:

My thoughts (tin hat time): Hope our form picks up and enjoy the ride for this year. Next year has more uncertainty than a Brexit negotiation in terms of players in the squad. I suspect we will still be a Championship side, and based on years of being the wallflower at the promotion party we will be top half at best. 

Off to open a 12 year old malt I had at Christmas 

Cheers!