Inglorius Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: A transitional season doesn't mean a gradual improvement. It means inconsistency until the objective has been reached. The ingredients for transition are acquiring better players and coaching them to a winning formula. Frank hasn't yet got his players but we can still see the potential of his coaching style surely? In other words don't expect gradual improvement week by week this season expect inconsistency. I dont expect gradual improvement I do expect a step change improvement in both playing style and calibre of recruits to make the transition anything less than a meaningless cliche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, McLovin said: But the point some of us are making is that by the time they do reach some kind of consistency, it will be time for Tomori, Wilson and Mount to go back to their parent clubs, which will disrupt the squad as they’re key players, not to mention many of the others aren’t going to be here next year because their contracts expire at the end of the season so we will have to start the process again. The ones you mention stand out in the team at the moment but when/if they go then we need equal or better next season. Who is to say we either won't keep them or we can't get better. The point I am making is we a see the style Frank wants to bring and once we can move more freely in the transfer market the players will come. Hence transition season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inglorius said: I dont expect gradual improvement I do expect a step change improvement in both playing style and calibre of recruits to make the transition anything less than a meaningless exercise. But the playing style has improved hasn't it? Not every game true but mainly that's because the correct personnel are not yet in place and to a degree Frank is still learning. We are in transition currently though surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanny Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I completely understand the concern around losing Tomori, Wilson, and Mount next year...talents. However, what makes you (anyone who is upset about Derby not progressing fast enough) think we won't be able to attract a similar level of talent next year? Assuming Derby still sit in the Championship next year; We will have: 1. Multiple contracts off the wage bill 2. A solid core of our own players 3. Possible financial freedom to bring in one or two solid permanents 4. A top Championship program (including staff) to attract the next Wilsons/Tomoris/Mounts...if not actually bringing them back themselves. 5. If we find a way to get promoted...None of this matters...Derby will be able to afford whats needed. In essence, I don't understand the rhetoric around the perceived dumpster fire some of you seem to think the team is in. Derby are in a pretty good position currently. Let's push forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: The ones you mention stand out in the team at the moment but when/if they go then we need equal or better next season. Who is to say we either won't keep them or we can't get better. The point I am making is we a see the style Frank wants to bring and once we can move more freely in the transfer market the players will come. Hence transition season. I agree with your definiton of transition, I do feel that it is being used as an excuse to some degree to mitigate the inconsistent levels of performance and results we have seen which is only valid if there is a sustained improvement on both next season. There's got to be a clearly defined end point and there also needs to be a clearly defined metric to assess if it was even worth going through that alleged period of transition at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: The ones you mention stand out in the team at the moment but when/if they go then we need equal or better next season. Who is to say we either won't keep them or we can't get better. The point I am making is we a see the style Frank wants to bring and once we can move more freely in the transfer market the players will come. Hence transition season. In today’s world everyone expects improvements & results yesterday, we need to wind our necks in and give Frank a chance. Check out Wikipedia and the great BC: ‘In Clough's first season, the club finished one place lower than in the previous season, but he had started to lay the foundations for his future success by signing several new players’ Rome wasn’t built in a day folks, we’re not the experts, in fact we have nothing but bar room opinions, chill out and let Frank do his job. We need to play the long game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, McLovin said: But the point some of us are making is that by the time they do reach some kind of consistency, it will be time for Tomori, Wilson and Mount to go back to their parent clubs, which will disrupt the squad as they’re key players, not to mention many of the others aren’t going to be here next year because their contracts expire at the end of the season so we will have to start the process again. Surely, if and when we get promoted the team will need a major over haul to compete at the next level anyway. Teams evolving is an on going process anyway. I think that you may be over thinking it. Frank may or may not be the answer we're all waiting for, who knows? Just roll with it and see where it takes us is my advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gisby said: In today’s world everyone expects improvements & results Totally concur, this is a truism whether it be on the sporting field or making widgets. Ultimately Lampard will be measured against this metric to deem if he has been a success or a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gisby said: ‘In Clough's first season, the club finished one place lower than in the previous season, but he had started to lay the foundations for his future success by signing several new players’ Compare and contrast then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Inglorius said: Wiemann and Jerome never had a good record of scoring goals for us let's be honest. I never said for us but certainly in our division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 4 hours ago, GenBr said: I also do prefer Huddlestone, but I'm not really sure why Evans is getting so much hate for last night - certainly no worse than most of the players in our team yesterday. Think you've provided the reason by mentioning the preference of Huddlestone. I think it is just tough for Evans because he is ultimately judged against the boots he is filling. I for one pay to watch professional football to see players do things you just can't see done on a Sunday morning at the local park. Players like Huddlestone, and players gone by like Kinkladze, can provide that one bit of skill or class in a game that is worth the entrance fee alone. Other players may be more effective, Evans may be more effective than Huddlestone over the course of a game...but that doesn't mean I still wouldn't rather pay to watch Huddlestone. It is just a joy to watch his deft touch at times and then him switch the game up with a 50 yard cross-pitch ball placed to within an inch of its target. Evans will never be able to do that but then again a lot of Prem players can't do it either (no disgrace) and therein lies the reason he constantly has to justify his shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, McLovin said: Utter garbage. So we don’t support the team because we have different views to yourself? And Bird has hardly played and Thomas has been out on loan have you ever bothered to watch you lads in the under 18s and 23s? a lot of exciting lads playing there ok they wont all make it but i will be amazed if 6 or so have good careers.OK last night game was the most entertainment but we should give them credit for the way they fought to get a point,something that was lacking in the snakes team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sparkle said: I never said for us but certainly in our division Agreed but you made a point of mentioning them in the same sentence as Vydra and Martin thereby insinuating that losing those 2 would also have a negative impact on our team specifically being deprived of consistent goalscorer's. As you quite rightly say none of the 2 have a exemplary goal scoring record at Derby so perhaps invalid to bracket their names into the same argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Chester40 said: I am definitely pro-Frank...but he has to take some responsibility.... he brought Waghorn in and hasn't played him up front and relied on Nugent who was running through treacle. He didn't pick Wisdom or Tomori at right back and has persisted with Bryson who has looked out if sorts. He has kept faith with Lawrence and not coached him into being less wasteful. He also picked Evans and left Huddlestone on the bench. Not saying he is wrong on all counts but those choices were on him and I think we were poor. Blind faith is as pointless as constant nit-picking. In the league performances have been very patchy and some of that is down to him. can you coach greediness out of a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 42 minutes ago, Inglorius said: I agree with your definiton of transition, I do feel that it is being used as an excuse to some degree to mitigate the inconsistent levels of performance and results we have seen which is only valid if there is a sustained improvement on both next season. There's got to be a clearly defined end point and there also needs to be a clearly defined metric to assess if it was even worth going through that alleged period of transition at all. I agree with much of this. I think the endpoint is when we are at the end of next season after he has had a season with his own players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 43 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Compare and contrast then... Sorry @RoyMac5but haven’t got the time or inclination to do so but I’d like to think that you take my point ie too many of us are too quick to form opinions & jump to conclusions, 29 league games is nowhere near enough to make the judgements which are being spouted this forum. People moan about the lack of continuity and X amount of managers in Y numbers of years yet at the same time are too quick to jump on the current managers back, the honeymoon period is over etc etc. Let’s leave it be & let him get on with his job otherwise it’s a self fulfilling prophecy and ‘yes’ we will be looking for our umpteenth manager in the last half a dozen years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gisby said: Sorry @RoyMac5but haven’t got the time or inclination to do so but I’d like to think that you take my point ie too many of us are too quick to form opinions & jump to conclusions, 29 league games is nowhere near enough to make the judgements which are being spouted this forum. People moan about the lack of continuity and X amount of managers in Y numbers of years yet at the same time are too quick to jump on the current managers back,the honeymoon period is over etc etc. Let’s leave it be & let him get on with his job otherwise it’s a self fulfilling prophecy and ‘yes’ we will be looking for our umpteenth manager in the last half a dozen years. If 29 games isn't a fair sampling period then what would you say would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inglorius said: If 29 games isn't a fair sampling period then what would you say would be? I’m happy to give Frank the rest of this season and the next but hey ho what do I know ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Rowett is an abomination of a manager, and shouldn't be employed at this level again. Lampard has acted to move things in the right direction, but progress seems to be stalling somewhat at the moment. Ultimately none of us, or even he himself, know what he can achieve as a championship manager, because it is uncharted territory. There are question marks over some of his decision making, but only time will tell if he can develop the approaches to be effective. The real transition is in his own development. I expect a more experienced manager would be getting more out of our current squad, and showing more signs of how things were going to shape up, but we have chosen to let Lampard cut his teeth at Derby, so that is the ride we are on. I have mixed feelings about it currently, and no idea how it will work out, but that's football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRam Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Inglorius said: If 29 games isn't a fair sampling period then what would you say would be? This summer when about 10 contracts are set to expire; I envision that will give Frank and Jody the chance to make their own team. These are the players whose contracts expire: Craig Bryson, Bradley Johnson, David Nugent, Marcus Olsson and Roos. Jacob Butterfield, Alex Pearce are as good as gone. Ledley, Jerome and Blackman have all left too. Huddlestone has the one year option and him and Roos are the only two players who should stay on. That would mean that next year the players that are extra to Frank's requirements would be Chris Martin, George Thorne and Anya. Three players compared to 12 at the start of this season. So I would judge them on where we are in January 2020 and I am pretty certain we will be in a much better place football wise and financially too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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