Posh Ram Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Did he? Or was that a speculative figure which comprised of numerous add-ons and various other clauses? To be fair, I'm not sure we know the exact fee. I'm probably chatting poo claiming £8m ? Still - £5m is a lot to spend on someone who you're not certain you'll build around, especially when we'd just signed Marriott. I like Waghorn, he's played well whenever I've seen him and this year sort of reminds me of Vydra's first season (i.e. obviously a good player but things just haven't fallen right for him, might do well next year). But I don't think he's been worth the investment, and he's 29 years old so not going to be an asset forever. In comparison, Evans was cheap, he's young, his wages won't be very high. Players like that you can afford to spend a couple of years developing and then if they don't pan out you've not lost much. Low-cost, high potential reward. Holmes is the same, as were people like Bryson, Keogh and Martin back in the day. Waghorn I believe is high-cost, medium potential reward. That kind of transfer strategy drove us to sign Butterfield, Johnson and Lawrence, none of whom have worked out how we'd have liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Waggy has looked good on the wing since the turn of the year IMO gets himself in good positions, works hard. I'd always prefer Marriott down the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Posh Ram said: To be fair, I'm not sure we know the exact fee. I'm probably chatting poo claiming £8m ? Still - £5m is a lot to spend on someone who you're not certain you'll build around, especially when we'd just signed Marriott. I like Waghorn, he's played well whenever I've seen him and this year sort of reminds me of Vydra's first season (i.e. obviously a good player but things just haven't fallen right for him, might do well next year). But I don't think he's been worth the investment, and he's 29 years old so not going to be an asset forever. In comparison, Evans was cheap, he's young, his wages won't be very high. Players like that you can afford to spend a couple of years developing and then if they don't pan out you've not lost much. Low-cost, high potential reward. Holmes is the same, as were people like Bryson, Keogh and Martin back in the day. Waghorn I believe is high-cost, medium potential reward. That kind of transfer strategy drove us to sign Butterfield, Johnson and Lawrence, none of whom have worked out how we'd have liked. I don't believe you're being fair on his contribution. He's still our 3rd top scorer this season (all competitions), earning us 7 points in the league with his goals. He provided an assist for the 1-1 draw vs Norwich, and the winning goal vs Reading. He scored winning goals in the cups vs Accrington and Hull, as well as scoring the vital equaliser in the away tie against Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamikaze Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said: Hastie is a very exciting player but I think he's pretty much set to sign for Rangers on a free. He is! I used to watch him for Alloa... I hear Hackett is heading to Hearts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, sage said: If the new Fifa rule to limit each club to 6 outgoing loans comes into force, then Chelsea will be looking to sell many of their youngsters. Maybe with heavy sell on clauses or buy back clauses. Would be happy if we could purchase Tomori, James and Clarke-Salter if someone is daft enough to buy Lawrence and we dont renew the old farts contracts. Pick up Aribo and Browne on frees and we are a winger and Cf on loan from being a side that can challenge. sorry Sage , its a great shout but Brownes not on a free , but i agree hes just the sort of midfielder we need , Brownhill at Bristol City is another one , but im sure they will have a hefty price tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: I don't believe you're being fair on his contribution. He's still our 3rd top scorer this season (all competitions), earning us 7 points in the league with his goals. He provided an assist for the 1-1 draw vs Norwich, and the winning goal vs Reading. He scored winning goals in the cups vs Accrington and Hull, as well as scoring the vital equaliser in the away tie against Southampton. For £5m, £8m, whatever he cost, I’d want more than that. Nice that he did well in the cup run but league form is what really matters, and he’s got 4 goals and 2 assists in 27 games in the Championship. Sammon scored at a better rate than that in the season he started under Clough... Obviously there’s a good player there, his scoring record in the Championship for other clubs indicates that. He’s played well in spells here too. But overall Waghorn looks like a bang average signing at best considering the money spent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Premier ram said: sorry Sage , its a great shout but Brownes not on a free , but i agree hes just the sort of midfielder we need , Brownhill at Bristol City is another one , but im sure they will have a hefty price tag Bloody transfermarkt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 17 hours ago, Posh Ram said: Still - £5m is a lot to spend on someone who you're not certain you'll build around, especially when we'd just signed Marriott. I like Waghorn, he's played well whenever I've seen him and this year sort of reminds me of Vydra's first season (i.e. obviously a good player but things just haven't fallen right for him, might do well next year). But I don't think he's been worth the investment, and he's 29 years old so not going to be an asset forever. I still think he was bought because he can play anywhere across the front 3 - He's an attacking utility player Also worth noting, you rarely pay 'market value' for a player - You pay whatever the demand necessitates - Waghorn had a great season last year and was wanted by a number of championship clubs so we had to pay a little more - Holmes on the other hand we got an absolute bargain because he's definitely worth more than we paid for him Plus - Waghorn might be 29 but we can still get 3/4 good years out of him and that's not crazy for the money - His sell on potential isn't great but we've lost more than that on Johnson and Butterfield so ?♂️ (Johnson tbc obviously) 17 hours ago, Posh Ram said: In comparison, Evans was cheap, he's young, his wages won't be very high. Players like that you can afford to spend a couple of years developing and then if they don't pan out you've not lost much. Low-cost, high potential reward. Holmes is the same, as were people like Bryson, Keogh and Martin back in the day. That's actually a fair shout - I've been critical of the decision to get Evans but he was cheap and so probably worth the risk Now we just need to get FloJo firing and we're golden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Posh Ram said: To be fair, I'm not sure we know the exact fee. I'm probably chatting poo claiming £8m ? 5m is a lot to spend on someone who you're not certain you'll build around, especially when we'd just signed Marriott. I like Waghorn, he's played well whenever I've seen him and this year sort of reminds me of Vydra's first season (i.e. obviously a good player but things just haven't fallen right for him, might do well next year). But I don't think he's been worth the investment, and he's 29 years old so not going to be an asset forever. In comparison, Evans was cheap, he's young, his wages won't be very high. Players like that you can afford to spend a couple of years developing and then if they don't pan out you've not lost much. Low-cost, high potential reward. Holmes is the same, as were people like Bryson, Keogh and Martin back in the day. Waghorn I believe is high-cost, medium potential reward. That kind of transfer strategy drove us to sign Butterfield, Johnson and Lawrence, none of whom have worked out how we'd have liked. Not anymore my friend! Quite a fair price if you consider no one was involved in more goals than him in our division last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Reckon we have a squad of Carson (Roos - will sign with an eye on Carson retiring soon?) Boyle (Wisdom) Davies (Tomori- another loan) Keogh Malone (Lowe) Huddlestone (Evans) Bird Holmes (Palmer - still think we’d have gone for him if we hadn’t got Mount for the ‘mount’ role) Waghorn (Thomas) Marriott (Martin) Lawrence (FloJo) With Bennett, MitchellLawson and Forsyth left over. Gives a squad size of 23. Feel like the additions I’ve chosen are very realistic and affordable. Feel like we probably need to strengthen further for another push but Jody and Frank have better loan contacts than me. Probably lightest in the central midfield roles. So incoming Palmer and Tomori plus others. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 44 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Thoughts? Very light in CM - That's 2 players for 2 positions which would worry me - Plus I thought indications were Bird is more DM than CM? Would jump at the chance to bring Palmer in Huddlestone - Has the extension been triggered yet? Two CBs over 33 - Need to think about the future in there even if Wisdom considered a CB more now Don't think we're going to see Martin in a Derby short again unfortunately... And any place for Thorne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 50 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Very light in CM - That's 2 players for 2 positions which would worry me - Plus I thought indications were Bird is more DM than CM? Would jump at the chance to bring Palmer in Huddlestone - Has the extension been triggered yet? Two CBs over 33 - Need to think about the future in there even if Wisdom considered a CB more now Don't think we're going to see Martin in a Derby short again unfortunately... And any place for Thorne? Surely Thorns career is over as far as Derby is concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 24 minutes ago, TommyPowel said: Surely Thorns career is over as far as Derby is concerned It's a subject for debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambalin Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 18 hours ago, Posh Ram said: For £5m, £8m, whatever he cost, I’d want more than that. Nice that he did well in the cup run but league form is what really matters, and he’s got 4 goals and 2 assists in 27 games in the Championship. Sammon scored at a better rate than that in the season he started under Clough... Obviously there’s a good player there, his scoring record in the Championship for other clubs indicates that. He’s played well in spells here too. But overall Waghorn looks like a bang average signing at best considering the money spent The fee would be and was fairly standard for a forward who scored ten or more goals in the championship for his club moving to another championship team. I am not sure what you expect for that price you certainly are not going to get a top level ready made player.The reason he has played at the level he has is that he is not consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 20 hours ago, cheron85 said: Very light in CM - That's 2 players for 2 positions which would worry me - Plus I thought indications were Bird is more DM than CM? Would jump at the chance to bring Palmer in Huddlestone - Has the extension been triggered yet? Two CBs over 33 - Need to think about the future in there even if Wisdom considered a CB more now Don't think we're going to see Martin in a Derby short again unfortunately... And any place for Thorne? I’m not suggesting the squad is ready, just what we’re realistically going to be left with and realistically how some gaps could be filled. I honestly forgot about Thorne...which is upsetting given how good he was. I’m fairly happy with the striking options/could maybe do with another experienced wide man. Definitely need cover in the central defence and midfield areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 23 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: Reckon we have a squad of Carson (Roos - will sign with an eye on Carson retiring soon?) Boyle (Wisdom) Davies (Tomori- another loan) Keogh Malone (Lowe) Huddlestone (Evans) Bird Holmes (Palmer - still think we’d have gone for him if we hadn’t got Mount for the ‘mount’ role) Waghorn (Thomas) Marriott (Martin) Lawrence (FloJo) With Bennett, MitchellLawson and Forsyth left over. Gives a squad size of 23. Feel like the additions I’ve chosen are very realistic and affordable. Feel like we probably need to strengthen further for another push but Jody and Frank have better loan contacts than me. Probably lightest in the central midfield roles. So incoming Palmer and Tomori plus others. Thoughts? Carson is only a year older than Keogh and Huddlestone so I doubt he'd be retiring for another 3/4 years. Palmer and Tomori would be absolutely incredible signings if we stay down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said: I’m not suggesting the squad is ready, just what we’re realistically going to be left with and realistically how some gaps could be filled. Oh of course - I was just responding to your 'thoughts' question ? I actually think wide options is the one place we're covered now - Lawrence, FloJo, Bennett, Waghorn and then Thomas coming back and youngsters like Mitchell-Lawson coming through (he looked confident when he came on) I'd be seriously focused on young CBs and almost any CMs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 On 14/03/2019 at 12:18, IlsonDerby said: Reckon we have a squad of Carson (Roos - will sign with an eye on Carson retiring soon?) Boyle (Wisdom) Davies (Tomori- another loan) Keogh Malone (Lowe) Huddlestone (Evans) Bird Holmes (Palmer - still think we’d have gone for him if we hadn’t got Mount for the ‘mount’ role) Waghorn (Thomas) Marriott (Martin) Lawrence (FloJo) With Bennett, MitchellLawson and Forsyth left over. Gives a squad size of 23. Feel like the additions I’ve chosen are very realistic and affordable. Feel like we probably need to strengthen further for another push but Jody and Frank have better loan contacts than me. Probably lightest in the central midfield roles. So incoming Palmer and Tomori plus others. Thoughts? At the moment (without any contract renewals or transfers, we'll be left with this... GK: Carson, Mitchell, Ravas RB: Bogle, Wisdom CB: Keogh, Davies LB: Malone, Lowe, Forsyth (will he return predominantly as a CB due to injuries?) DM: Bird, Evans, Thorne CM: Holmes RW: Bennett, Thomas LW: Lawrence, Jozefzoon, Anya CF: Marriott, Waghorn, Martin CB, CM are obvious areas we need to recruit. If Roos doesn't sign an extension then a GK too. Keogh (33), Davies (34) and Forsyth (30) will mean a younger CB will be coming in - Tomori seems likely as he still needs to improve in the air Holmes as the only attacking mid means we will need more bodies in this area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 On 15/03/2019 at 11:37, Dale The Ram said: Carson is only a year older than Keogh and Huddlestone so I doubt he'd be retiring for another 3/4 years. Palmer and Tomori would be absolutely incredible signings if we stay down Fair enough, might be forced to with more frequent injuries and form dipping. On 15/03/2019 at 11:48, cheron85 said: Oh of course - I was just responding to your 'thoughts' question ? I actually think wide options is the one place we're covered now - Lawrence, FloJo, Bennett, Waghorn and then Thomas coming back and youngsters like Mitchell-Lawson coming through (he looked confident when he came on) I'd be seriously focused on young CBs and almost any CMs Very true. 23 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: At the moment (without any contract renewals or transfers, we'll be left with this... GK: Carson, Mitchell, Ravas RB: Bogle, Wisdom CB: Keogh, Davies LB: Malone, Lowe, Forsyth (will he return predominantly as a CB due to injuries?) DM: Bird, Evans, Thorne CM: Holmes RW: Bennett, Thomas LW: Lawrence, Jozefzoon, Anya CF: Marriott, Waghorn, Martin CB, CM are obvious areas we need to recruit. If Roos doesn't sign an extension then a GK too. Keogh (33), Davies (34) and Forsyth (30) will mean a younger CB will be coming in - Tomori seems likely as he still needs to improve in the air Holmes as the only attacking mid means we will need more bodies in this area CM is despairingly thin on the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: Fair enough, might be forced to with more frequent injuries and form dipping. Very true. CM is despairingly thin on the ground And to think we started the season with Huddlestone, Johnson, Ledley, Bryson, Butterfield and Thorne, recruited Holmes and Evans, and promoted Bird... one thing we can say is the club will have a much healthier wage bill next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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