Sheikh n Bake Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, 86 points said: Full time scouts are lucky to clear £20k with many claiming that their wages scarcely cover their overhead. If that's a good wage and incentive enough in your mind, fair enough. Does rather make you wonder why we've struggled so badly though if it's as simple a process as you make out. I'd love to know where you've acquired those scouting salaries from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said: I'd love to know where you've acquired those scouting salaries from! There's this amazing thing called Google... Expert Opinions Above all, for a greater overview of life as a football scout, we turned to a couple of experts who shared their opinions on the role: “Being a football scout is not a good career choice simply because there are very few who get paid for it, let alone receive a decent wage. It is a great job though, as you get to watch a lot of football and can be proud of the fact you have potentially uncovered a future for someone else.” – Jonathan Rabin, Director of The 3T Group https://www.discountfootballkits.com/blog/how-to-become-a-football-scout/ https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/uk-football-scout-salary-SRCH_IL.0,2_IN2_KO3,17.htm?countryRedirect=true Even scouying for the NFL doesn't pay a lot... The United States Bureau of Labor Statistics reports a median salary of $32,270 for professional coaches and scouts in the United States, based on 2017 data. The 25th to 75th percentile pay range is $22,180 to $51,010 a year.21 Nov 2018 Chief scout at a top 4 club ie Man City vesus the average scouts pay https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/aug/08/football-scout-walsall-fc Anyway, clearly you're the expert so I'll leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh n Bake Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, 86 points said: There's this amazing thing called Google... Expert Opinions Above all, for a greater overview of life as a football scout, we turned to a couple of experts who shared their opinions on the role: “Being a football scout is not a good career choice simply because there are very few who get paid for it, let alone receive a decent wage. It is a great job though, as you get to watch a lot of football and can be proud of the fact you have potentially uncovered a future for someone else.” – Jonathan Rabin, Director of The 3T Group https://www.discountfootballkits.com/blog/how-to-become-a-football-scout/ https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/uk-football-scout-salary-SRCH_IL.0,2_IN2_KO3,17.htm?countryRedirect=true Even scouying for the NFL doesn't pay a lot... The United States Bureau of Labor Statistics reports a median salary of $32,270 for professional coaches and scouts in the United States, based on 2017 data. The 25th to 75th percentile pay range is $22,180 to $51,010 a year.21 Nov 2018 Chief scout at a top 4 club ie Man City vesus the average scouts pay https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/aug/08/football-scout-walsall-fc Anyway, clearly you're the expert so I'll leave it there. Thanks for being so patronising you absolute weapon! A scouting role at NON-LEAGUE Fylde paying £30k a year: https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=0a4ae4074ecdd34a&tk=1d8jt0hkr9r4l800&from=company I don't claim to know a lot about the footballing scouting business. I don't pluck numbers out the sky unlike yourself either. But what I do know is, if you make a job based on commission, people will do whatever achieves the outcome to reward more pay. That's just business and that's why your scouting model is so flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said: Thanks for being so patronising you absolute weapon! A scouting role at NON-LEAGUE Fylde paying £30k a year: https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=0a4ae4074ecdd34a&tk=1d8jt0hkr9r4l800&from=company I don't claim to know a lot about the footballing scouting business. I don't pluck numbers out the sky unlike yourself either. But what I do know is, if you make a job based on commission, people will do whatever achieves the outcome to reward more pay. That's just business and that's why your scouting model is so flawed. Oooh. Name calling. You find one job that pays a working wage but ignore all the links provided from actual scouts and industry experts. And I'm the weapon. LMFAO. Another meat trumpet for the ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh n Bake Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, 86 points said: Oooh. Name calling. You find one job that pays a working wage but ignore all the links provided from actual scouts and industry experts. And I'm the weapon. LMFAO. Another meat trumpet for the ignore list. I found an actual job description including an actual wage package that is for a team 3 leagues lower than ourselves, who is paying 30% more than what you are claiming our scouts to be on... But you don't see the logic? I'm saying this for your own good, please never ever start your own business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said: I found an actual job description including an actual wage package that is for a team 3 leagues lower than ourselves, who is paying 30% more than what you are claiming our scouts to be on... But you don't see the logic? I'm saying this for your own good, please never ever start your own business... Haven't even mentioned our scouts mate so please, stop chatting mince and go and have a lie down. The figures I've quoted I've backed up with citations and articles written by or featuring actual scouts and which concern industry averages. If you'd bothered to read them you might be better informed. As it is, you've provided a link to a single job. Hugely compelling. If that's you idea of logic then perhaps you should avoid running a business yourself. And on that point, I'd founded and sold two businesses by the time I was 29 but thanks for your own brand of patronising BS advice. Duly noted. Anyways, doubtless this is boring everyone else as much as it is me so let's park it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh n Bake Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, 86 points said: Haven't even mentioned our scouts mate so please, stop chatting mince and go and have a lie down. The figures I've quoted I've backed up with citations and articles written by or featuring actual scouts and which concern industry averages. If you'd bothered to read them you might be better informed. As it is, you've provided a link to a single job. Hugely compelling. If that's you idea of logic then perhaps you should avoid running a business yourself. And on that point, I'd founded and sold two businesses by the time I was 29 but thanks for your own brand of patronising BS advice. Duly noted. Anyways, doubtless this is boring everyone else as much as it is me so let's park it there. Considering we were discussing a scouting system for ourselves on a Derby County forum, that's the figures we should be discussing? I'm also sure discountkits.com isn't considered a reputable source, so as well as business, I hope you're not looking into doing a degree at university! Your personality is summarised well by claiming to have put me on an ignore list but still replying to my posts! A true keyboard warrior you are! You'll go far... Parked satis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh n Bake Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Sam Lammers Age: 21 Position: Forward Current Club: SC Heerenveen (on loan from PSV) He has a good record this year of 14 goals in 23 games. After seeing Mount do so well on his transition from the dutch league to the Championship as well as seeing Norwich do so well with their European signings, I would love to see us dip into this market. Unrealistic? Maybe. Unlikely to be able to attract him on a permanent contract, but is there potential for a loan? Obligatory YouTube clip: (Appologies about the trashy trance poo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Nick_Ram said: having a scouting system based on commission is nuts. I remember reading that our former scout - mo camara - was on some sort of commission deal when he worked previously for sunderland. It was stated that he received financial benefit if the club signed the player. And then if the player was no good and they had to move the player on, he got another windfall for arranging the outgoing deal. I thought that was absolutely crackers if true , and might explain why sunderland's record in the transfer market at that time was so abysmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 59 minutes ago, RamNut said: I remember reading that our former scout - mo camara - was on some sort of commission deal when he worked previously for sunderland. It was stated that he received financial benefit if the club signed the player. And then if the player was no good and they had to move the player on, he got another windfall for arranging the outgoing deal. I thought that was absolutely crackers if true , and might explain why sunderland's record in the transfer market at that time was so abysmal. Rewarding someone for failing is clearly pretty silly. Not sure the same can be said for rewarding those who do well, however. It's a basic fundamental of any business that those who deliver results are suitably reimbursed for their trouble. A simple safety-net could be player-performance related bonuses for the scout in question. The deal you've outlined has the opposite effect to that sought given it rewards the scout for failing by delivering him one commission if successful in placing a player who does well and two when he fails. Now that really is daft assuming you are correct. Frankly, it beggars belief. In any case, this has been done to death now and frankly, I wish I'd never suggested it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 hours ago, 86 points said: The deal you've outlined has the opposite effect to that sought given it rewards the scout for failing by delivering him one commission if successful in placing a player who does well and two when he fails. Now that really is daft assuming you are correct. Frankly, it beggars belief. I assume that his job was to bring them players, and then get paid more like an agent acting on their behalf. (i haven't read the rest of the thread so ithis snippet wasn't intended as an argument for or against something you had suggested) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4derby Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 So, who do we want at the club next year...? after that in depth look at scouting... Thinking about loan signings, does anyone recommend any good young players from the big clubs? We’ve signed 3 from Chelski and Liverpool, and I imagine that’s where we will target for loans again. Reece James is one mentioned a bit, has certainly impressed at Wigan. What about Ampadu? He’s not featured much this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 12 hours ago, Nick_Ram said: However, having a scouting system based on commission is nuts. Where is the incentive to look out for the interests of the club? And if you don't take a scouts word for their recommendations, why are you even employing them in the first place? What is your plan B? I think maybe it was poorly worded from @86 points - Don't think 'commission' like you would pay on a one off deal - Let's call it a 'bonus structure' instead It could very easily work in both club and scouts favour - For instance they get a small 'bonus' when a player signs, then for every year they play more than xx games they get another bonus, another one when they sign a new contract, another if they get sold for a higher fee than they signed for etc etc - Essentially make the 'commission' based on longer term metrics rather than the initial signing 11 hours ago, Nick_Ram said: I found an actual job description including an actual wage package that is for a team 3 leagues lower than ourselves, who is paying 30% more than what you are claiming our scouts to be on... But you don't see the logic? You included one example - That's like me walking out onto the street right now, asking one person their opinion and assuming that's the case for ALL people I'm not sure how much you know about modern football scouting but the vast majority of it is done by 'semi-pros' these days - Most small clubs can't afford a permanent scouting team so they rely on tipsters essentially - So our small(ish) scouting team will have a network/web of these tipsters who will ring them up and say "have you seen xxxx playing at yyyy? get down and have a look at him" - Then one of the proper scouts goes to a few games, then (probably) Lampard does too - I even remember an article a few years ago from a League 2/Conference side who said they'd started using Football Manager for ideas because they can afford 'better' scouts than most clubs can! I suspect the job role you found was for a permanent scout/head of scouting type job 8 hours ago, 86 points said: Rewarding someone for failing is clearly pretty silly. Scouts jobs aren't fixed like players though - If they don't perform well they get fired ? 2 hours ago, r4derby said: So, who do we want at the club next year...? after that in depth look at scouting... Thinking about loan signings, does anyone recommend any good young players from the big clubs? We’ve signed 3 from Chelski and Liverpool, and I imagine that’s where we will target for loans again. Reece James is one mentioned a bit, has certainly impressed at Wigan. What about Ampadu? He’s not featured much this season. I still desperately want us to look at more 'cast-offs' from the big 6 sides in the Prem - Where's the next Danny Higginbotham? Leicester picked up 3/4 players like that for their promotion push and most of them ended up with PL winners medals! There must be a good few players out there who are hitting 22/23 - Not looking like getting a game in the top 6 - But hungry for football and easily good enough for the Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 8 hours ago, r4derby said: So, who do we want at the club next year...? after that in depth look at scouting... Thinking about loan signings, does anyone recommend any good young players from the big clubs? We’ve signed 3 from Chelski and Liverpool, and I imagine that’s where we will target for loans again. Reece James is one mentioned a bit, has certainly impressed at Wigan. What about Ampadu? He’s not featured much this season. Josh Sims from Southampton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 3 decent midfield options, all out of contract in the summer, and coming into their prime at 25/26 years old: Josh Vela Josh McEachran Will Vaulks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Carnero said: 3 decent midfield options, all out of contract in the summer, and coming into their prime at 25/26 years old: Josh Vela Josh McEachran Will Vaulks Two misses Vela - another Rowett target? More often a sub than a starter these days....for bolton! Mceachran - over-hyped as a youngster at chelsea; a dud who has never developed as hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekingofbuxton Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Next season we need more goals, a stronger, more influential and controlling midfield both centrally and wide, and a commanding/organising centre half who isn't error prone or cursed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyram1983 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Need a strong commanding centre back to play at the back with keogh also a strong commanding cm who can win tackles, headers and play a bit. These are priority. We keep signing attacking players but this must be key now. All the soft goals we concede. The ball from the corner against Birmingham should t have got all the way to keoghs feet. The goalie or another player should have got to it earlier. Concede soft goals all the time that’s why we’ve had to score so many goals lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRam Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I'd go with Bannon and Dack, don't care about their ages, and a CB, always hoped we'd get Flint, but wasn't to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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