Racism (moved from Ashley Cole transfer thread)

[R@M]

To be fair, I think Ramsbottom may have accidentally made a valid point (not with this though) and has stumbled across the answer to one of the longest running threads on here.

Unconscious racial bias against the Irish   Keogh explains the irrational thousands of posts that state he is ? contrary to the actual statistics and evidence. 

 

[Norman]

I have an unconcious bias that I have only just realised.

And I have an apology to make.

I think I unconciously hate seeing sublime footballers in a Derby Cointy shirt. I think I ducking hate players that can ping a pass, have a first touch that makes me twinge, and manages to score goals as well as having a superb tackling percentage.

I have an apology to make, because I have given a player that posseses all of the above and more some foul mutterings under my breath from the stands, as well as some cutting, unfunny comments on here. 

I apolgise, Mr. Bradley Johnson. It was just my unconcious bias.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, ramsbottom said:

Exactly, I didn't say all Derby fans are racists, as well as saying that every fans criticism of him wasn't motivated by his skin colour, I was pointing out the fact that some black players are derided more than white players despite performing, making mistakes & having exactly the same attitude as their white counter parts.  I don't see how that makes me a racist either.  Fair enough of people want to completely dismiss it, but to think it doesn't shape some people's bias is naive...

I would suggest that you can really only make this sort of sweeping statement with concrete facts to back it up .  The way your carrying on we should be coming out to the banjo music from Deliverance .   Derby is multi cultural city . It has a multi cultural fan base .  I have seen no evidence  that any player who puts in a decent shift in our shirt is thought of differently because of skin colour .  If there was somebody randomly giving a player extra grief due to this, I assume they may be someone equally abusive to someone because they are Irish / Scottish/Swedish/ Mongolian .  It is a far more transient situation than you are putting forward.  I would suggest maybe you are the naïve one in this case if you think otherwise  .

[ramsbottom]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yet I've given you examples of white players who come in for an equal amount, and in the main part, much more criticism than Ince, yet they are white. Does that not debunk your racism theory and show that it's down to football opinions rather than skin colour?

I don’t think I’ve said it’s purely down to skin colour. But in some cases I believe the criticism is amplified because of it. 

[G STAR RAM]

19 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

I don’t think I’ve said it’s purely down to skin colour. But in some cases I believe the criticism is amplified because of it. 

Well either it's down to footballing reasons or its down to race. 

Really don't see how you could distinguish otherwise. 

[Will Hughes Hair]

33 minutes ago, R@M said:

To be fair, I think Ramsbottom may have accidentally made a valid point (not with this though) and has stumbled across the answer to one of the longest running threads on here.

Unconscious racial bias against the Irish   Keogh explains the irrational thousands of posts that state he is ? contrary to the actual statistics and evidence. 

 

The unconscious bias runs far deeper than you're suggesting,

• Ince - black
• Keogh= Irish
• Lawrence = Welsh

I daren't even mention that Butterfield played like a girl ?

[Archied]

8 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

I don’t think I’ve said it’s purely down to skin colour. But in some cases I believe the criticism is amplified because of it. 

Racism is alive and well in our society although it is far weaker and closer to extinction than its ever been but people inventing it where it’s not appropriate is counter productive and offensive not only to people accused of this racism but also to those that are victims of REAL racism,

i can honestly say that on this forum or at games I have never so much as picked up a sniff of racism towards Tom Ince from derby fans 

interestingly I saw an interview with judge rinder who made the point that the over use and inappropriate labelling of people these days as nazis is an offence to millions who suffered and lost their lives at the hands of real nazis 

[Ewe Ram]

Absolutely loved these guys and still do remember their Derby times with affection:

Michael Johnson, Darren Moore, Toribo West, Dean Leacock (and a few more). Must be cos they’re black eh? 

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Racism is alive and well in our society although it is far weaker and closer to extinction than its ever been but people inventing it where it’s not appropriate is counter productive and offensive not only to people accused of this racism but also to those that are victims of REAL racism,

i can honestly say that on this forum or at games I have never so much as picked up a sniff of racism towards Tom Ince from derby fans 

interestingly I saw an interview with judge rinder who made the point that the over use and inappropriate labelling of people these days as nazis is an offence to millions who suffered and lost their lives at the hands of real nazis 

Bravo! 

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Racism is alive and well in our society although it is far weaker and closer to extinction than its ever been but people inventing it where it’s not appropriate is counter productive and offensive not only to people accused of this racism but also to those that are victims of REAL racism,

i can honestly say that on this forum or at games I have never so much as picked up a sniff of racism towards Tom Ince from derby fans 

interestingly I saw an interview with judge rinder who made the point that the over use and inappropriate labelling of people these days as nazis is an offence to millions who suffered and lost their lives at the hands of real nazis 

You and your white privilege.

I am not being serious of course, but I dare bet many would be.

I agree with what you are saying 100% In Paragraph one. Paragraph two, i do see or hear it sadly, to a degree, there is an old guy sits near us who has been known to say 'coloured players are lazy', definitely repeated it about Tom Ince.  Wrong on many levels yes, but are you going to change the views of an 80 + year old? Probably no, im sure he doesnt even consider it racist. What is good is I have never heard anyone engage in the discussion with him or even acknowledge what he says, probably all shaking their heads.

 

 

[Anon]

3 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

You and your white privilege.

I am not being serious of course, but I dare bet many would be.

I agree with what you are saying 100% In Paragraph one. Paragraph two, i do see or hear it sadly, to a degree, there is an old guy sits near us who has been known to say 'coloured players are lazy', definitely repeated it about Tom Ince.  Wrong on many levels yes, but are you going to change the views of an 80 + year old? Probably no, im sure he doesnt even consider it racist. What is good is I have never heard anyone engage in the discussion with him or even acknowledge what he says, probably all shaking their heads.

 

 

Is he talking to someone he's with or announcing it loudly? You'd be well within your rights to tell him what a stupid opinion that is. I don't care about the word "coloured", but making generalizations like that is stupid whether you're 18 or 80.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, Ewe Ram said:

Absolutely loved these guys and still do remember their Derby times with affection:

Michael Johnson, Darren Moore, Toribo West, Dean Leacock (and a few more). Must be cos they’re black eh? 

Clod?

[Sith Happens]

19 minutes ago, Anon said:

Is he talking to someone he's with or announcing it loudly? You'd be well within your rights to tell him what a stupid opinion that is. I don't care about the word "coloured", but making generalizations like that is stupid whether you're 18 or 80.

I agree with what you say about coloured. I Wouldnt use it, my Dad does whos also 80 but when he was younger he was told black was wrong and had to use coloured.

This guy is just speaking out loud to who ever is listening.

I probably should say something, if it was out and out abuse towards someone i would say something. definitely.

[Stive Pesley]

How is this thread allowed? Seems to be a fairly nasty pile-on to @ramsbottom for saying something that has triggered the usual suspects and ended in the same old circular argument ("no YOU'RE the racist for saying that some people might be racist!" etc)

Remember Ron Atkinson on Desailly? "He's what is known in some schools as a ******* lazy thick n***er."

That's the subconcious attitude that Ramsbottom was referring to (and @Paul71 confirms that people like this do still exist in the stands).

Just because no one on here thinks  like that doesn't mean he's wrong and it doesn't exist. Try and remember that it wasn't a personal attack eh? There is no need to behave like this

That's all I have to say - I'm bored of it and I've really not missed it

YAWN

[RamNut]

40 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

there is an old guy sits near us who has been known to say 'coloured players are lazy', definitely repeated it about Tom Ince.  Wrong on many levels yes, but are you going to change the views of an 80 + year old? Probably no, im sure he doesnt even consider it racist. What is good is I have never heard anyone engage in the discussion with him or even acknowledge what he says, probably all shaking their heads.

 

Its nice to hear that Big Ron is still coming to watch us.

 

[SaintRam]

6 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

How is this thread allowed? Seems to be a fairly nasty pile-on to @ramsbottom for saying something that has triggered the usual suspects and ended in the same old circular argument ("no YOU'RE the racist for saying that some people might be racist!" etc)

Remember Ron Atkinson on Desailly? "He's what is known in some schools as a ******* lazy thick n***er."

That's the subconcious attitude that Ramsbottom was referring to (and @Paul71 confirms that people like this do still exist in the stands).

Just because no one on here thinks  like that doesn't mean he's wrong and it doesn't exist. Try and remember that it wasn't a personal attack eh? There is no need to behave like this

That's all I have to say - I'm bored of it and I've really not missed it

YAWN

Fair.

[Anon]

8 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I agree with what you say about coloured. I Wouldnt use it, my Dad does whos also 80 but when he was younger he was told black was wrong and had to use coloured.

This guy is just speaking out loud to who ever is listening.

I probably should say something, if it was out and out abuse towards someone i would say something. definitely.

I'm not going to pretend it's easy or that I'd definitely do it myself, but as you mentioned, there are likely numerous people around him who aren't particularly happy with his behavior. I know on the two occasions I've heard racist comments in the stands I was grateful that someone immediately addressed the issue.

[RamNut]

Favourite derby black players

• Michael johnson
• paul williams
• paulo Wanchope
• dean sturridge
• giles barnes 
• jayden bogle
• fikayu Tomori
• chris powell

I never really got too excited about lee grant, tom ince, or ian taylor.....so i can't quite pick a complete 11. Unfortunately we never signed a laurie Cunningham

 I notice when thinking about the players i think who was good first and were they black second. And there are so many players of mixed ethnic background that its hard to know what actually counts as black. 

P.s. Best player of all time = Pele.

 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

You and your white privilege.

I am not being serious of course, but I dare bet many would be.

I agree with what you are saying 100% In Paragraph one. Paragraph two, i do see or hear it sadly, to a degree, there is an old guy sits near us who has been known to say 'coloured players are lazy', definitely repeated it about Tom Ince.  Wrong on many levels yes, but are you going to change the views of an 80 + year old? Probably no, im sure he doesnt even consider it racist. What is good is I have never heard anyone engage in the discussion with him or even acknowledge what he says, probably all shaking their heads.

 

 

Fair comment on the old guy and yes you do still get it from the odd idiot of all ages too but I’ve not come across it at football for a long time and if you do see it they are usually pulled up or seen as the raving loon on the bus type and avoided like the plague and in  all honesty the chances are you will never change them but they are being bred and educated out 

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

How is this thread allowed? Seems to be a fairly nasty pile-on to @ramsbottom for saying something that has triggered the usual suspects and ended in the same old circular argument ("no YOU'RE the racist for saying that some people might be racist!" etc)

Remember Ron Atkinson on Desailly? "He's what is known in some schools as a ******* lazy thick n***er."

That's the subconcious attitude that Ramsbottom was referring to (and @Paul71 confirms that people like this do still exist in the stands).

Just because no one on here thinks  like that doesn't mean he's wrong and it doesn't exist. Try and remember that it wasn't a personal attack eh? There is no need to behave like this

That's all I have to say - I'm bored of it and I've really not missed it

YAWN

By usual suspects I assume you refer to yourself as well because you're never too far away when racism gets mentioned.

From my point of view this wasn't a general casual racism thread. I was asking the poster how come it's racism when Ince gets criticised yet when Lawrence gets the same criticism it's football related.

There seems to be no evidence of any racist behaviour towards Ince.

@Paul71 has confirmed that he's heard ONE person with a racist view. That's one out of about 25,000 or about 0.004%.

I'm sure there's a person with sexist vies that sit in the crowd, that doesn't mean that any criticisms of players are automatically sexist does it?

You say it's not a personal attack but of course it is, the poster has admitted that there's no proof or evidence of racism so he must just be guessing who is and who isn't racist, which means he is making personal attacks on people.