Emiliano Sala

[R@M]

12 hours ago, RamNut said:

the flight arrangements were not made on behalf of Nantes. The agents had also arranged numerous flights for cardiff city and warnock in an identical manner. To be absolutely pedantic it was Willie McKay's son who was the agent contracted to Nantes. His father arranged the flight, so any link to Nantes is very tenuous indeed. 

 

So the agent father, who may have a stake in the player (part owner?) arranged the flight on behalf of his agent son, who brokered the deal for Nantes, and who may be part of the same agency as his father? 

If the flight is found to be negligent in law, the defendants could include (and not exclusively)

1.Nantes as potential employers of the flight procurer

2.The agent as flight procurer

3.the pilot

4.Agent/part owner Willie McKay for instructing his son 

It is a mess, and may seem pedantic, but that is what insurance is, as is tort law.  I don’t blame Cardiff for not just handing over 15million. 

[RamNut]

On 20 February 2019 at 11:28, R@M said:

So the agent father, who may have a stake in the player (part owner?) arranged the flight on behalf of his agent son, who brokered the deal for Nantes, and who may be part of the same agency as his father? 

If the flight is found to be negligent in law, the defendants could include (and not exclusively)

1.Nantes as potential employers of the flight procurer

2.The agent as flight procurer

3.the pilot

4.Agent/part owner Willie McKay for instructing his son 

It is a mess, and may seem pedantic, but that is what insurance is, as is tort law.  I don’t blame Cardiff for not just handing over 15million. 

There is absolutely no chance that Willie McKay has a stake in the ownership of the player. Not sure why you are suggesting that?

using the same third party, he previously booked numerous flights with private pilot licensed pilots for cardiff city. Hard to see how they could now effectively argue now that those arrangements were inherently inappropriate. Also it would be impossible for him to vet or verify the choice of plane or pilot. Obviously that doesn't stop cardiff pursuing legal action but its hard to see how it could possibly succeed in those circumstances. Original pilot Dave Henderson might get sued if it can be successfully argued that he should have known that ibbotson was obviously unfit to fly the plane at night, but that might be hard to prove too. In any case, none of the above changes the fact that cardiff owe nantes £15m. 

For all we know the pilot might simply have suffered a heart attack.

 

 

 

[Sith Happens]

Just watched a bit on TV about the pilots family trying to raise money to find his body. Made me think,  wonder if the body they had found was the pilots would the search for Sala had been called off?

 

[Pearl Ram]

I’d like to think not as it was money raised by Sala supporters for want of a better word than funded the search in the first place.

[RamNut]

Maybe Sala was right afterall.....

Quote

The wreckage of the fuselage – in three pieces, with wings and tailfin missing – was found on the seabed 68 metres below the surface off Guernsey in the Channel Islands on 3 February. 

He said he it felt like the plane was going to fall to pieces.

 

the alternative is a tail fin stall when ice causes the airplane to tip up and lose all stability. The plane then disintegrates and the wings drop off as it becomes subject to forces it was never designed to withstand. 

RIP.

[RamNut]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c73c02bed915d4a3d3b2407/S1-2019_N264DB_Final.pdf

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c73c02bed915d4a3d3b2407/S1-2019_N264DB_Final.pdf

So, amongst other things...

The pilot's licence does not cover taking passengers for reward.

Passenger(s) can, however, be carried under "cost sharing" restrictions. 

And...

"The FAA issued legal interpretations in 200917 and 201418 making clear that a pilot must not pay less than the pro rata share for the flight. If the flight involves the pilot and one passenger, then the pilot must pay half the operating expenses. The ruling also made clear that the pilot must have a bona fide purpose (also known as common purpose) for making the flight and must dictate when the flight is to go. The flight must not be made for the purpose of merely transporting the passenger".

 

... "The investigation continues to examine all pertinent operational, technical, organisational and human factors which might have contributed to the accident. In particular, work will be undertaken to:

a. Refine the analysis of the radar information to try and understand the last few minutes of the flight.

b. Assess the possible implications of the weather conditions in the area at the time of the accident.

c. Analyse video from the ROV to determine the aircraft attitude as it entered the water.

d. Consider the regulatory requirements surrounding the flight including airworthiness requirements, aircraft permissions and flight crew licencing.

A final report will be published in due course."

 

I'm saying nothing!

Edited February 26, 2019 by Mucker1884

[RamNut]

Quote

I'm saying nothing

I could have sworn you were going to say something.

 

Any road...who have guessed that the planes owners were from Derbyshire!

A management consultancy company called Cool Flourish Ltd with a registered address on The Dale, Bonsall, derbyshire, with two directors, one who lives in Repton, and the other in Higham.

small world.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I could have sworn you were going to say something.

 

Any road...who have guessed that the planes owners were from Derbyshire!

A management consultancy company called Cool Flourish Ltd with a registered address on The Dale, Bonsall, derbyshire, with two directors, one who lives in Repton, and the other in Higham.

small world.

Alas, if it were indeed a small world, there would’ve been no need for the plane. 

[Gaspode]

Cardiff have not made the first payment that they'd committed to pay - Nantes now asking FIFA to get involved...

[RamNut]

No surprise there.

no intention of paying imo

[BriggRam]

It seems not the case now money is being asked for 

[Mucker1884]

5 hours ago, Barnetbyram said:

It seems not the case now money is being asked for 

Maybe they could all put those H&H scarves on EBay, and "donate" the monies to Nantes, as a goodwill gesture!

[BathRam72]

On 26/02/2019 at 09:55, Mucker1884 said:

So, amongst other things...

The pilot's licence does not cover taking passengers for reward.

Passenger(s) can, however, be carried under "cost sharing" restrictions. 

And...

"The FAA issued legal interpretations in 200917 and 201418 making clear that a pilot must not pay less than the pro rata share for the flight. If the flight involves the pilot and one passenger, then the pilot must pay half the operating expenses. The ruling also made clear that the pilot must have a bona fide purpose (also known as common purpose) for making the flight and must dictate when the flight is to go. The flight must not be made for the purpose of merely transporting the passenger".

 

... "The investigation continues to examine all pertinent operational, technical, organisational and human factors which might have contributed to the accident. In particular, work will be undertaken to:

a. Refine the analysis of the radar information to try and understand the last few minutes of the flight.

b. Assess the possible implications of the weather conditions in the area at the time of the accident.

c. Analyse video from the ROV to determine the aircraft attitude as it entered the water.

d. Consider the regulatory requirements surrounding the flight including airworthiness requirements, aircraft permissions and flight crew licencing.

A final report will be published in due course."

 

I'm saying nothing!

I haven't read all of this post and I might be barking up the wrong tree.

But I am pretty sure the rules governing this flight would come under the CAA/FCAA not the FAA (Like I said I might be wrong and I am sure the rules are similar) FAA governs the USA and also covers several other countries.

UK - CAA

France - FCAA

[Mucker1884]

5 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

I haven't read all of this post and I might be barking up the wrong tree.

But I am pretty sure the rules governing this flight would come under the CAA/FCAA not the FAA (Like I said I might be wrong and I am sure the rules are similar) FAA governs the USA and also covers several other countries.

UK - CAA

France - FCAA

Can't remember, as what I read has now left my brain again!

I recall something about state of ownership/state of registration, blah, blah, option to throw it over to someone else etc (as to who carries out the investigation, and under which governing bodies).  It's all in the first few paragraphs of the linked report.

What I can say though, is that all the wording in italics (in my post) was taken from the linked pdf (posted by @RamNut, top of this page), which appears to be the official report from official investigators... thus far!

[BathRam72]

6 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Can't remember, as what I read has now left my brain again!

I recall something about state of ownership/state of registration, blah, blah, option to throw it over to someone else etc (as to who carries out the investigation, and under which governing bodies).  It's all in the first few paragraphs of the linked report.

What I can say though, is that all the wording in italics (in my post) was taken from the linked pdf (posted by @RamNut, top of this page), which appears to be the official report from official investigators... thus far!

I don't disagree with any of it, just surprised and as I said I stand to be corrected.

The rules governing aircraft and civil aviation would be fairly similar throughout the world (I guess anyway)

[Coneheadjohn]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6763635/FA-probe-Neil-Warnock-son-James-transfer-dealings-Cardiff.html

It’s going to turn into a big smelly pile of ?.

[David]

 

[Anon]

So Cardiff are claiming that Sala was never a Bluebird after all? I can't wait for all those virtue signalling Cardiff fans to demand their club honour the contract of a player they all genuinely took into their hearts. There's no way they'd all be so duplicitous and brazenly hypocritical that they'd now be framing denying their hero's family his cut of the transfer fee as a sensible business decision.

[TigerTedd]

3 hours ago, Anon said:

So Cardiff are claiming that Sala was never a Bluebird after all? I can't wait for all those virtue signalling Cardiff fans to demand their club honour the contract of a player they all genuinely took into their hearts. There's no way they'd all be so duplicitous and brazenly hypocritical that they'd now be framing denying their hero's family his cut of the transfer fee as a sensible business decision.

They might want to hide all those t-shirts saying ‘always a bluebird’, and maybe delete all the footage of the thousands of fans wearing them. 

I wonder if we could claim that the deal we struck for Nick Blackman is null and void.