Johnson and Ledley

[AdamRam]

If our youngsters are better than when not put them ahead in the pecking order, how much they cost or earn shouldn’t even come into the equation.

Not seen enough of them to know the answer, however neither BJ or Ledley have been regulars which says a lot really, yes 1 or 2 good performances but not consistent enough imo.

[Rampage]

7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just don't see that as a danger - much more a relief and opportunity. We've given ourselves a gigantic squad that's hoovered up Mel's money and blocked any hope of some decent youngsters breaking through.

I like that Frank had given Bogle his chance - and will clearly give Bennett a proper chance too. I like that he's brought us Malone, Marriott, Waghorn, Holmes, Josefzoon and Evans and loaned in Mount, Wilson and Tomori. 

Releasing around 10 players lets him bring us more signings and give opportunities to the likes of Bird, Thomas, Lowe, Elsnik, Wilson (T), Buchanan, Sibley and more. It's something to be embraced not feared. 

Super Frankie Lampard - what a guy! 

You have a little. More confidence in that process than I do, Carl. Young players still a way off unless we deem next season a transition season

If a few of the coming to out of contract players go this month then we will see who Super Frank can get in. 

FFP is a known quantity and has unavoidable consequences. 

[FindernRam]

Joe came in as almost an emergency cover and did a good job. Age is catching up and we have other options, so thanks and time to move on. 

Bradley, not really sure what to think, played in all sorts of positions, always tried but never really had a consistent team/style around him, personally rate him a bit higher than some do , but if (IF) Frank wants others ahead of him that's his call. Could see a lower placed team needing his combative style.

Why do our managers (all of them) insist on buying players and then playing them out of position?

[rynny]

Quote

Derby County does not expect, nor condone, any of its players to behave in the manner witnessed in the incident on Wednesday evening.

The club will be conducting its own internal disciplinary hearing in relation to the matter and as such will make no further comment.

I did wonder if the club were going to add to his original ban. 

[Ghost of Clough]

5 hours ago, Rampage said:

You have a little. More confidence in that process than I do, Carl. Young players still a way off unless we deem next season a transition season

If a few of the coming to out of contract players go this month then we will see who Super Frank can get in. 

FFP is a known quantity and has unavoidable consequences. 

We don't need the young players mentioned to come in and play 20 games next season. I don't think that's what Carl is even suggesting

Out of contract players: Roos, Tomori, Olsson, Huddlestone, Ledley, Johnson, Bryson, Butterfield, Mount, Wilson, Nugent

Roos and Huddlestone seem likely to extend their stay for at least 1 more season (in my opinion). Olsson and Butterfield haven't kicked a ball this season so won't need replacing.

Ledley (4 apps), Johnson (14 apps), Bryson, (19 apps). Evans should be playing more next season, so 1 new player is all we need to replace this trio. A new forward will be needed to replace Nugent (21 apps).

Tomori, Mount and Wilson are all first choice picks and will need replacing. 

 

Generally, we'll need a 1st team squad of:

2xGK (Carson, Roos);

2xRB (Bogle, Wisdom);

3xCB (Keogh);

2xLB (Malone, Lowe, Forsyth);

2xDM (Evans, Huddlestone);

3xCM (Holmes);

4xW (Waghorn, Bennett, Lawrence, Jozefzoon, Thomas);

2xCF (Marriott).

So next season, we'll need 2xCB, 2xCM, 1xCF. If Waghorn played centrally more often, then that would negate the need for a CF. Possibly replace Wisdom with someone more suited to our style of play too.

This would allow youth players to fill in for injuries and suspensions. 

[Ghost of Clough]

56 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Joe came in as almost an emergency cover and did a good job. Age is catching up and we have other options, so thanks and time to move on. 

Bradley, not really sure what to think, played in all sorts of positions, always tried but never really had a consistent team/style around him, personally rate him a bit higher than some do , but if (IF) Frank wants others ahead of him that's his call. Could see a lower placed team needing his combative style.

Why do our managers (all of them) insist on buying players and then playing them out of position?

Like who?

[Stive Pesley]

Johnson was brilliant for his first couple of games. Then consistently ranged from average to dreadful for a long time. This season he had maybe 1.5 games where I remembered how good he was at the start.

If a footballer can't perform consistently then he is of absolutely no use to a manager.

The writing was on the wall when he got our name wrong in his joining interview. Derby City...jesus ?

[BobbyD]

I understand the predicament faced by Frank and the club but they need to be careful here

It doesnt help the clubs reputation when they freeze out established, well known players who signed in good faith and gave their all when called upon. They were welcomed with open arms when they were needed and yet, apparently, discarded when the clubs situation changed, despite having tried their best when called upon.

I have enjoyed seeing both Ledley and Johnson play for the Rams. Neither perfect but both, it appeared to me, did their best and never tried to hide. And, at times, were fantastic for us. 

There is a way to deal with these situations that preserves everyones dignity and reputation  and I think it important that the club does the right thing here.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

10 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

I understand the predicament faced by Frank and the club but they need to be careful here

It doesnt help the clubs reputation when they freeze out established, well known players who signed in good faith and gave their all when called upon. They were welcomed with open arms when they were needed and yet, apparently, discarded when the clubs situation changed, despite having tried their best when called upon.

I have enjoyed seeing both Ledley and Johnson play for the Rams. Neither perfect but both, it appeared to me, did their best and never tried to hide. And, at times, were fantastic for us. 

There is a way to deal with these situations that preserves everyones dignity and reputation  and I think it important that the club does the right thing here.

 

What is the right thing?

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

I understand the predicament faced by Frank and the club but they need to be careful here

It doesnt help the clubs reputation when they freeze out established, well known players who signed in good faith and gave their all when called upon. They were welcomed with open arms when they were needed and yet, apparently, discarded when the clubs situation changed, despite having tried their best when called upon.

I have enjoyed seeing both Ledley and Johnson play for the Rams. Neither perfect but both, it appeared to me, did their best and never tried to hide. And, at times, were fantastic for us. 

There is a way to deal with these situations that preserves everyones dignity and reputation  and I think it important that the club does the right thing here.

In what way have they been frozen out?

Is it not just a matter that FL doesn't see them adding anything to the match day squad?

[derbydaz22]

16 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

I understand the predicament faced by Frank and the club but they need to be careful here

It doesnt help the clubs reputation when they freeze out established, well known players who signed in good faith and gave their all when called upon. They were welcomed with open arms when they were needed and yet, apparently, discarded when the clubs situation changed, despite having tried their best when called upon.

I have enjoyed seeing both Ledley and Johnson play for the Rams. Neither perfect but both, it appeared to me, did their best and never tried to hide. And, at times, were fantastic for us. 

There is a way to deal with these situations that preserves everyones dignity and reputation  and I think it important that the club does the right thing here.

 

So are you saying we should play them when we know they are not good enough?

[BobbyD]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

What is the right thing?

How about including them in the matchday squad. ?

What do you think Jimbo about my point ? 

[BobbyD]

Just now, derbydaz22 said:

So are you saying we should play them when we know they are not good enough?

They have proved many times that they are good enough

Personally I think they are better than the youth team players being drafted in to the bench currently. I could be wrong of course, let me know what you think

What about my main point about the clubs reputation and integrity when players are treated like this ? Could it effect our ability to attract established players in the future ? 

 

 

 

 

[Rab a dab doo]

I think this happens at most clubs so we are really no different to any where else in that regard. 

[derbydaz22]

34 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

They have proved many times that they are good enough

Personally I think they are better than the youth team players being drafted in to the bench currently. I could be wrong of course, let me know what you think

What about my main point about the clubs reputation and integrity when players are treated like this ? Could it effect our ability to attract established players in the future ? 

 

 

 

 

None of them are Lampard signings the only one I would have been tempted to try was Butterfield as he may well have fitted in to our midfield 3 as he is better on the ball than both Johnson and Bryson but at the end of the day we need these players off the books ASAP so freezing them out might make them give there agents a nudge.

[BobbyD]

2 minutes ago, derbydaz22 said:

None of them are Lampard signings the only one I would have been tempted to try was Butterfield as he may well have fitted in to our midfield 3 as he is better on the ball than both Johnson and Bryson but at the end of the day we need these players off the books ASAP so freezing them out might make them give there agents a nudge.

So you think that ‘ freezing out’ established , some international players is a good strategy by the club ? 

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

So you think that ‘ freezing out’ established , some international players is a good strategy by the club ? 

Scenario A: play established player, pay their appearance bonuses, pay appearances add-ons to their previous club, player leaves at the end of the season on a free. 

Scenario B: don’t play established player, save money on bonuses/add-ons, hope player goes out on loan/permanent, play youth player, youth player increases in value, established player leaves on a free (if not already sold), youth player becomes established player / sell youth player for reasonable amount. 

Still wish we’ll play Butterfield and Anya?

[derbydaz22]

8 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

So you think that ‘ freezing out’ established , some international players is a good strategy by the club ? 

Yes as I don’t think they are good enough,who would you play Johnson and Ledley in front of? They are out of contract in 6 months and have no future at the club so what’s the point of having them on the bench in front of possible future 1st team players from the under 23s?

[BobbyD]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Scenario A: play established player, pay their appearance bonuses, pay appearances add-ons to their previous club, player leaves at the end of the season on a free. 

Scenario B: don’t play established player, save money on bonuses/add-ons, hope player goes out on loan/permanent, play youth player, youth player increases in value, established player leaves on a free (if not already sold), youth player becomes established player / sell youth player for reasonable amount. 

Still wish we’ll play Butterfield and Anya?

You are so missing the point 

I get the financial comment

My comment is that we are badly treating employees of our football club 

Please say if you are happy with this . 

I am not , and that this approach will impact upon our future - we are treating employess extremely badly 

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, BobbyD said:

You are so missing the point 

I get the financial comment

My comment is that we are badly treating employees of our football club 

Please say if you are happy with this . 

I am not , and that this approach will impact upon our future - we are treating employess extremely badly 

Or are we giving youth players a chance, improving our chances of recruiting the best youngsters in the country?