Premier League 18/19

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 hours ago, David said:

You can want Liverpool to win the league and still believe that Guardiola is a genius. There must be very few managerial geniuses in your book if he doesn't feature. Liverpool and Man United have also spent very large amounts of money and have got nowhere near his level of success. City and Liverpool have both spent extremely wisely. 

[Mr. P]

[ossieram]

Is it over yet?

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, Zag zig said:

Have to admit I found this amusing, thought I’d post it just for @MuespachRam 

Thanks. 

[Sith Happens]

28 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Is it over yet?

Yeah Liverpool failed. 

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

@MuespachRam, Salah joint top scorer (along with Mané). One season wonder? Also, whilst they fell short, you have to admit that 97 points is an incredible total for Liverpool and shows year-on-year improvement. Another Champions League final to come as well.

I've seen far more poo coming from non-Liverpool fans saying how much they hate Liverpool than actual Liverpool fans living up to their supposed reputation.

[Parsnip]

Liverpool will most probably win the Champions league and have pushed Man City all the way to the last 70 mins of the season. I can't see Liverpool doing the same again next season - they've been incredible. And I definitely don't see anyone else doing it, at all. So City domination from now on until Pep gets bored I suppose.

[David]

1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said:

You can want Liverpool to win the league and still believe that Guardiola is a genius. There must be very few managerial geniuses in your book if he doesn't feature. Liverpool and Man United have also spent very large amounts of money and have got nowhere near his level of success. City and Liverpool have both spent extremely wisely. 

I'm sure you can, but I don't feel that way. ?‍♂️

[David]

[DarkFruitsRam7]

7 minutes ago, David said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2016&saison_id_bis=2018&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

City top of expenditure, but not by a huge amount. Liverpool have spent heavily without winning a major trophy, whilst City have won 4 (likely to become 5) in two years. You can bring net spend into it but Liverpool sold Coutinho for an insane, overblown fee. Would you agree with me in saying that Klopp is a genius? If so, I really don't see how you can say Guardiola isn't. He built one of the greatest club sides we've ever seen without spending much, whilst admittedly having good source materials to work with.

Which managers would you class as geniuses?

[MaltRam]

Teams have spent money before and failed, and with good managers in charge too. Man utd have spoffed hundreds of millions to gradually get worse. 

Liverpool and City might have spent big, but have dished up astonishing football this season. Both managers right up there with the best of all time, purely on the quality of the football teams they've produced. I don't think any English club side in history would have lived with either of them.

Hope Liverpool win the CL. Against any other team I'd have been rooting for Spurs, but this Liverpool team deserves some silverware.

[Sexydadbod]

22 minutes ago, David said:

You mean it shows he’s good at planning? Those two are cracking players and I’m sure he will develop them into genuine world class players. They will presumably replace Fernandinho and Gundogan, who hasn’t signed a new contract. Is it not a sign of a good manager that he’s already preparing ahead for future seasons?

He could easily go out and buy players for the here and now but he’s getting players who will be at the club for many years, even after he leaves.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, McLovin said:

But he didn’t have an unlimited budget at Barcelona. His success there was based of the Cruyff philosophy of using young la masia players playing possession football.  He had the personalty to get rid of Barcelona greats like Ronaldinho, Samuel Etoo and Deco. Even at Bayern he didn’t have a big budget. The myth of him having a big budget has only developed since he went to city.  No coincidence to me that Spain and Germany won the world cups whilst Guardiola was managing in those countries, managing the core of important players who went on to win the World Cup; The core of the Barcelona and Bayern players he managed went on to win the World Cup with a possession style. English football both domestically and internationally has improved since Guardiola has come into this country. 

08/09 - £40m net spend including £32m for Dani Alves, £30m for Hleb and Caceres

09/10 - £80m net spend including £62.5m for Ibrahimovic

10/11 - £18m net spend including £36m for David Villa and £18m for Mascherano

11/12 - £12m net spend including £30m for Fabregas and £24 for Sanchez

13/14 - £20m net spend including £60m on Gotze and Thiago

14/15 - £4m net spend. Benatia for £25m

15/16 - £50m net spend. Vidal for £34m and Douglas Costa for £27m

16/17 - £160m net spend. Stones for £50m, Sane for £45.5m, Gabriel Jesus for 29.9m, Gundogan for £24m, others for £40m+

17/18 - £204m net spend. Laporte for £58.5m, Mendy for £52m, Walker for £47.5m, Bernardo Silva for £45m, Ederson for £36m, Danilo for £27m, 

18/19 - £21m net spend. Mahrez for £61m 

[Sexydadbod]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

08/09 - £40m net spend including £32m for Dani Alves, £30m for Hleb and Caceres

09/10 - £80m net spend including £62.5m for Ibrahimovic

10/11 - £18m net spend including £36m for David Villa and £18m for Mascherano

11/12 - £12m net spend including £30m for Fabregas and £24 for Sanchez

13/14 - £20m net spend including £60m on Gotze and Thiago

14/15 - £4m net spend. Benatia for £25m

15/16 - £50m net spend. Vidal for £34m and Douglas Costa for £27m

16/17 - £160m net spend. Stones for £50m, Sane for £45.5m, Gabriel Jesus for 29.9m, Gundogan for £24m, others for £40m+

17/18 - £204m net spend. Laporte for £58.5m, Mendy for £52m, Walker for £47.5m, Bernardo Silva for £45m, Ederson for £36m, Danilo for £27m, 

18/19 - £21m net spend. Mahrez for £61m 

Some cracking deals in there tbf. Not massive amounts to be honest for the size of clubs that he has been at, not really that much more than his fellow managers at other big clubs. The only really big season was the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons which was needed as the Man City team were getting old and needed more youth in that team.

[Sexydadbod]

We should know better than anyone else that money doesn’t guarantee success or mean you will improve as a team, it’s about spending it wisely. How much money did the 13/14 and 14/15 Derby teams cost in comparison to the teams Clement onwards?

[David]

1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2016&saison_id_bis=2018&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

City top of expenditure, but not by a huge amount. Liverpool have spent heavily without winning a major trophy, whilst City have won 4 (likely to become 5) in two years. You can bring net spend into it but Liverpool sold Coutinho for an insane, overblown fee. Would you agree with me in saying that Klopp is a genius? If so, I really don't see how you can say Guardiola isn't. He built one of the greatest club sides we've ever seen without spending much, whilst admittedly having good source materials to work with.

Which managers would you class as geniuses?

Are you serious? Man City have spent an insane amount of money recently, Liverpool haven't been peasants far from it, but over the last 3 seasons they have a net spend of £385m! Thats £272m more than Liverpool, 2 of Klopp's 3 full seasons in charge they have made a profit.

Guardiola at Man City

18/19 - Outgoing £70m, incoming £49m. 
17/18 - Outgoing £286m, Incoming £82m 
16/17 - Outgoing £192m, Incoming £32m

Net spend £385m

Klopp at Liverpool

18/19 - Outgoing £163m, Incoming £35m
17/18 - Outgoing £156m, Incoming £166m
16/17 - Outgoing £71m, Incoming £76m

Net spend £113m

If you want to call Guardiola a genius go for it, knock yourself out, I won't be joining you, nor will I be crowning Klopp a genius either. Both are very good managers, best of the best right now, but I guarantee you both Klopp and Pochettino would win the same number of titles as Guardiola had they walked into a clubs with the worlds best players or unlimited cheque book. 

And to flip that, Guardiola would have won the same amount as Klopp and Poch at Liverpool and Spurs.

[David]

14 minutes ago, McLovin said:

You mean it shows he’s good at planning? Those two are cracking players and I’m sure he will develop them into genuine world class players. They will presumably replace Fernandinho and Gundogan, who hasn’t signed a new contract. Is it not a sign of a good manager that he’s already preparing ahead for future seasons?

He could easily go out and buy players for the here and now but he’s getting players who will be at the club for many years, even after he leaves.

Good players or not that isn't the point, I'm not criticising his signings or scouting methods, what I'm saying is given that level of funding a number of managers would see the same level of success, which is why I don't buy into this genius tag. 

Let's see him put the cheque book away, bring a few through the academy, the academy that finished below Derby County in both the U23 and U18 leagues, then I will concede to his genius abilities. ?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Are you serious? Man City have spent an insane amount of money recently, Liverpool haven't been peasants far from it, but over the last 3 seasons they have a net spend of £385m! Thats £272m more than Liverpool, 2 of Klopp's 3 full seasons in charge they have made a profit in 2 of them. 

Guardiola at Man City

18/19 - Outgoing £70m, incoming £49m. 
17/18 - Outgoing £286m, Incoming £82m 
16/17 - Outgoing £192m, Incoming £32m

Net spend £385m

Klopp at Liverpool

18/19 - Outgoing £163m, Incoming £35m
17/18 - Outgoing £156m, Incoming £166m
16/17 - Outgoing £71m, Incoming £76m

Net spend £113m

If you want to call Guardiola a genius go for it, knock yourself out, I won't be joining you, nor will I be crowning Klopp a genius either. Both are very good managers, best of the best right now, but I guarantee you both Klopp and Pochettino would win the same number of titles as Guardiola had they walked into a clubs with the worlds best players or unlimited cheque book. 

And to flip that, Guardiola would have won the same amount as Klopp and Poch at Liverpool and Spurs.

I was talking about Barcelona, not City. City will join them in that class when they win the CL. Apologies, I should have been clearer.

And fair enough, if you don’t consider Klopp a genius then I can accept you not considering Guardiola one too. Pochettino has done outstandingly well but I wouldn’t class him as better than those two.

Again, I ask you who you consider managerial geniuses so I can see who you rate more highly than him. In my lifetime, Sir Alex is the greatest simply because of his longevity in comparison to the likes of Mourinho. But if I was to appoint a manager at a top club for a period of, say, 5 years, I’d pick Guardiola any day. No matter what the budget.

[Sexydadbod]

Guardiola , Pochettino and Klopp are three of the best managers in the world st the moment. It’s silly tbh criticising any of them because they have done magnificently for the job they’ve been asked to do at their respective clubs. I wouldn’t say Klopp or Poch would be guaranteed to have success at Man City though, both seem to thrive off the underdog tag, I’m not sure how’d they’d react to having unlimited amounts of money. Allegri and Simeone are similar examples, those guys seem to do better the less money given to them, the more money they have, the more pressure they have to change their coaching philosophy, it might be a coincidence but their teams have gotten worse ever since they’ve been given more money to spend.

Not as simple saying if x manager had x amount they’d achieve this. Brendan Rodgers is another good example of this on our shores, he is a brilliant coach but seems to get reckless when he has lots of money to spend.

[Sexydadbod]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Good players or not that isn't the point, I'm not criticising his signings or scouting methods, what I'm saying is given that level of funding a number of managers would see the same level of success, which is why I don't buy into this genius tag. 

Let's see him put the cheque book away, bring a few through the academy, the academy that finished below Derby County in both the U23 and U18 leagues, then I will concede to his genius abilities. ?

He did this at Barca B with the likes of Busquets and Pedro, two players who have now achieved everything in the game. Barca first team didn’t just appoint him just for the sake of it, they appointed him because they saw his ability with Barca B and how he developed players.