David Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, McLovin said: It’s just my view but it’s night and day between the quality with this team and a few years back. We got into the play offs last season but we had nowhere near enough quality to go and win it We’ve been in the Championship and seen many teams go up which have lacked quality, then gone on to survive up there. I would argue that effort, desire, team spirit and a winning mentality are more important than quality, Billy Davies showed us that and dare I say Bielsa is showing that at Leeds now. 13/14 has the feel good factor because it came out of nowhere after the austerity years under Clough, whilst it’s second only to Jim Smith’s team in my time it wasn’t without flaws, which is why we’re still here now. It felt good because it had a core of players which came through the system or bought very cheap, didn’t feel like we were supporting a bunch of overpaid big name players. Let’s not forget though following the trip to Wembley those egos started to develop and knocked on doors looking for pay rises, the first player to earn 20k pw came off the back of that season. Feels like fans are reluctant to get behind these players and bring back that feel good factor because we’ve been hurt before, and the squad is full of loans or players we paid big fees for. I can sort of get that, but I don’t see why we have to be derogatory about the players and stick the boot in with I told you so predicting which week we’re going to bottle it. Keeping grounded and having reservations is great but we as a fan base struggle to find that middle ground swinging from one extreme to the other. When we appointed Lampard, I honestly thought it would be enough to inject some feel good back into the place but clearly not, even though he’s done a excellent job in transforming this team from one style to another whilst retaining a top 6 place for most of the season. A season which many were happy to write off as a Rowett clear up job, bring through youth, and clear the decks. Many have not been true to their word and I feel for Lampard to be honest, I hope he understands the history which led to his appointment. We’re not a million miles away, even though Friday night was tough to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK47 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 No let's not keep the faith, let's all be miserable and boo the boys at every chance we get.. because we are Derby after all and we love a good moan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Boro had a squad that finished 5th. Had a new manager halfway through last season and they added Flint, Saville and McNair. They sold Traore, Gibson and Bamford. Sheffield United had a squad that finished 10th. Same manager for 2 1/2 years. They signed Egan and Norwood. They sold David Brooks. Leeds had a squad that finished 13th. New manager at the beginning of the season. They signed Bamford (who is out injured) and Douglas. They sold Vieira and Saiz has now left. Norwich had a squad that finished 14th. Same manager for 1 1/2 years. They signed Marshall, Leitner and Buendia. They sold Maddison and Murphy. West Brom were obviously relegated from Premier League. New manager midway through last season. They signed Johnstone and Bartley. They sold Chadli, McClean, Evans and Foster. In summary none of the club's have had their manager that long. Most sold key players and replaced with new signings. But almost all of the players they had were suited to the playing style of the new manager. The few players who didn't were shipped out. Very similar to McClaren's Derby inherited from Clough. We've got players left over from Clough, McClaren, Clement, Pearson, Rowett. We need time to flog the players not suited to how Frank wants us to play and get players in who are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: But almost all of the players they had were suited to the playing style of the new manager. The few players who didn't were shipped out. Very similar to McClaren's Derby inherited from Clough. We've got players left over from Clough, McClaren, Clement, Pearson, Rowett. We need time to flog the players not suited to how Frank wants us to play and get players in who are. Yes I agree with that. Who that has been left behind, that makes Franks squads does not fit with how he wants to play? After Wisdom I'm struggling. Also, why did he spend so much money on Malone, Josefzoon and Waghorn if they are not good enough to fit into the team in the way he wants to play? Why not spend that money on players that can come straight into the team as opposed to loaning players from Premier League teams knowing full well that they will be gone in the summer putting us back to square one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, David said: You say the passion is dying but here we are in a topic admiring the Leeds support and scarf waving. In 15/16 Leeds average attendances dropped to 21,667 2 seasons later they are 10k higher! And we’re supposed to somehow in awe of them, sorry but I’m not. They are no different to most clubs fans in that they turn up in numbers when things are great, the problem Derby has we’ve been this top 6 side now for a number of seasons and the novelty has worn off somewhat and now we’re seen as failures each year we don’t go up. Another club, Sheffield Wednesday, average attendance in the promotion season in League 1 was 21,336, the first season in the Championship saw a bump to 24,078 but once the fans realised they would be struggling after finishing 18th, the following season it was even lower at 21,239. 22,641 saw the season they finished top 6 which ramped up expectations, the next season 27,129 fans filled Hillsbrough to them finish 4th. Exactly the same thing will happen at Leeds if they somehow mess it up this season, they will tolerate it for another year before getting fed up and numbers decline. The Championship is stuffed full of clubs which believe they should be in the Premier League, clubs that have been there more recently yet we still put ourselves in that group and so we should, this club is setup for the Premier League. The game is changing though as you say and TV has had an impact, as has social media, we live in a bi polar world where one minute we’re amazing and the next a laughing stock. Again no different to other clubs, we took a beating on Friday night but have you seen the Villa fans after losing 3-0 away to Wigan? Ouch! All awareness of the level Championship clubs are at goes out the window, I saw suggestions the other day we should be signing Batshuayi on loan! It feels like every club is being judged by the standard Liverpool and Man City set, which is why players like Keogh get torn apart. Super Sunday defenders costing 75x more than what we paid for him. The thing I find weird is, you look around all Championship club forums and every single one has fans saying the Premier League isn’t all that, the Championship is better, far more entertaining. Then when a club such as Derby, Forest, Villa or Stoke lose a game it’s absolute meltdown. We’re miles away from promotion, why can’t we have him, why can’t we play like them, why do we have to suffer, everyone is laughing at us. And if the Championship is so great, why do fans only turn up when you’re top 6? We all want the Premier League, we all want entertaining football and we all get frustrated when it’s not happening. Sorry for all the words, full of cold and come back after a couple of days off line and we have a sub branch of the Leeds United fan club on here and it’s making me ratty. Although I do believe my observations are correct. Top post of the year so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Why not spend that money on players that can come straight into the team as opposed to loaning players from Premier League teams knowing full well that they will be gone in the summer putting us back to square one? This is another swing I don't like. One season it's why don't we ever utilise the loan market, Villa have signed X, Wolves have got him and the best one of all which pops up a lot is Mitrovic signing at Fulham, he only joined on loan but it paid off and constantly used as an example of another clubs ambitious attempt to get promoted. There was no commitment to buy, in fact it took quite a lot of haggling to get it done and then it's only because they went up. Who's to say we don't go up, sign Tomori, loan Wilson and Mount again, Liverpool and Chelsea decide to flog them on and we sign them for £15m-£20 a pop after staying up? We have 3 bright young players on loan which most of the league would want in their team and we're questioning why we're loaning players and not buying our own because it puts us back to square 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, David said: This is another swing I don't like. One season it's why don't we ever utilise the loan market, Villa have signed X, Wolves have got him and the best one of all which pops up a lot is Mitrovic signing at Fulham, he only joined on loan but it paid off and constantly used as an example of another clubs ambitious attempt to get promoted. There was no commitment to buy, in fact it took quite a lot of haggling to get it done and then it's only because they went up. Who's to say we don't go up, sign Tomori, loan Wilson and Mount again, Liverpool and Chelsea decide to flog them on and we sign them for £15m-£20 a pop after staying up? We have 3 bright young players on loan which most of the league would want in their team and we're questioning why we're loaning players and not buying our own because it puts us back to square 1. I've never been a fan of the loan market. If you can find a post from me asking why we are not competing for loans with other teams I would be very very surprised. I mean really what's the point of it? If the players turn out to be no good, they've taken the place of one of your own youngsters and set you back a year. If they turn out to be good they are most likely going back to their parent club and you've wasted a year developing someone else's player for them. As you say I might turn out to be wrong, we could get promoted and buy all 3 players, in which case I look stupid and am left with egg on my face. Only time will tell but I'd wager that the only one that we could end up with is Tomori and that only being on the basis that I personally don't think he is good enough to be a Premier League centre back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I've never been a fan of the loan market. If you can find a post from me asking why we are not competing for loans with other teams I would be very very surprised. I mean really what's the point of it? If the players turn out to be no good, they've taken the place of one of your own youngsters and set you back a year. If they turn out to be good they are most likely going back to their parent club and you've wasted a year developing someone else's player for them. As you say I might turn out to be wrong, we could get promoted and buy all 3 players, in which case I look stupid and am left with egg on my face. Only time will tell but I'd wager that the only one that we could end up with is Tomori and that only being on the basis that I personally don't think he is good enough to be a Premier League centre back. Fair enough, and whilst my preference is to play our own, we're assuming we have youngsters that are ready to step up and play to the level we need them. Look at Bogle trying to find his way, half a season into his first as a pro and we have fans looking to drive him to Burnley for a few quid! Whilst we are developing other clubs players they are paying their way with performances and goals which are putting points on the table, this isn't a lose lose for us, we are gaining from this if it gets us into that 4 team lottery come May we should be grateful to Liverpool and Chelsea for sending their talent our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, David said: Let’s not forget though following the trip to Wembley those egos started to develop and knocked on doors looking for pay rises, the first player to earn 20k pw came off the back of that season. Surely Ravanelli was on more than that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Dethorn said: Surely Ravanelli was on more than that ? Possibly, but I was looking at this mini era which started with the McClaren revolution in 13/14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 OK - I was amazed that maybe we had the white feather for less than that !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 The loan system is badly broken, as usual by the top clubs hoovering up any young lad who can tie his own laces. Chelsea have apparently got 40(?) players out on loan. If there was a sensible limit and proper reserve team football then it would be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 PS Seriously impressed with the level of debate and absence of insults on this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, FindernRam said: PS Seriously impressed with the level of debate and absence of insults on this thread! No, you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Carnero said: No, you are ?? Having a Senior moment, that comment passed me by completely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, FindernRam said: ?? Having a Senior moment, that comment passed me by completely! Never mind, my attempts at a joke usually get that reaction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberram Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 A result on Wednesday is what we need to pick us all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturram Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Should we keep faith with what ?? DCFC ? ..Yes. Frank Lampard? ..Yes. Where are all these negative threads coming from?? I dread to think how Cloughy would have coped with "social media" in the 60's when at Derby . This is just a silly thread. Frank Lampard is at Derby. He's a rookie manager learning his trade. We ALL knew this when he arrived.. Please let's just get behind the team and Frank. , As Fans. Reading is a massive game for us now but whatever that outcome, I'm so happy Lampard is here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Fans have changed. Oh yes the die hards behind the goals still sing loud and sup hard. They have good days and bad, our songs aren't that great, but that isn't the problem ….. I've always had one foot in the "respectable camp ala east and west stands" I am amazed how quiet they are. ( or is it purse lipped politeness ? ) Footy is where you vent a bit of restrained passion … hardly anyone does it near me.. I'm mr nice guy, quiet, polite but footy is the exception.... I want to sing a bit but as soon as I start to sing I realise I am in a choir on my own and you an almost feel the pressure to shut up… jees most of them can't even join in with Since I was young, or when the Rams go marching in. … way too flat - until the ball hits the net which is about the only time you get a real roar which is a bit of a pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerpyDane Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 It's often the hope that kills you. We're consistently too inconsistent to get promoted. Season in and season out we finish in the top half, compete for promotion places throughout the year but come up short. It amazes me how we don't really seem to move in either direction considering how competitve the championship is and when you see teams fight for survival one year and then go on to get promoted the following. We're a good side, but never quite good enough to take the step up. Every so often we see the potential of the team only to be let down later on. I'm more confident under Lampard than any of our previous managers but its still a bit worrying how inconsistent we are. Ppl were arguing we were playing the best football in ages back in september/october and at the minute we seem so average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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