Bogle

[Spanish]

8 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

FFS at what point have I inferred he shouldn't have a chance .  I just think if were offered 8 million I would grab it .  Age is irrelevant . Gary Kelly was 18 when he was phenomenal  , so was Seamus Coleman when Holloway said he was the most complete fullback he'd managed . So was Maldini when he played for AC Milan and became vice captain a year later and played for the Italian national team .  As I said will he get better -maybe . Will we get offered eight million again,( if that's the case)  I doubt it.

We need to get a better grip on how good these players are . The only one we had our pants down over was Hughes, who looked a class act above most in this division at -18.

 

difficult one though, balance between cashing in or benefiting from his development.  Only hindsight will tell the story.  Every year we have a squad that appears to have a good chance of promotion and every year we fail as teams pass us.  I don't know why this is but it is difficult to shake up a team when there is a good chance that it could get promoted.  Many will disagree but this year should have been a true year of consolidation with a big clear out.  Bogle's appearance in the first team is a bit of luck and I would like to see us capitalise on this and try and use the money to reinvigorate the squad.  We've got to do something because all I can see currently is that I am supporting a team that is only ever going to be able to target 6th or 7th position

[AdamRam]

Is 8 million a good deal at today’s prices ? Tyrone Mings went for 8m in 2015, you look at prices that PL clubs play now for good English players, and he fulfills his potential it’s a bargain imo.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

4 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Is 8 million a good deal at today’s prices ? Tyrone Mings went for 8m in 2015, you look at prices that PL clubs play now for good English players, and he fulfills his potential it’s a bargain imo.

In today a market 8 million should be the starting point. 8 million plus add ons based on appearances, internationals etc.

Scott Hogan moved from Brentford to Villa in the same division for a deal up to 15 million. I know strikers command more, but it shows if you stick to your guns, if someone wants a player badly they will pay the odds.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Can we please stop talking about 8m for him. 

If Burnley or Bournemouth are reading this (bloody spies) they need to know that we value him at £22.5m and nothing less. 

 

[BathRam72]

8 minutes ago, CHCDerby said:

Can we please stop talking about 8m for him. 

If Burnley or Bournemouth are reading this (bloody spies) they need to know that we value him at £22.5m and nothing less. 

 

What WE value him at is totally irrelevant. 

 

(I do know your post was tongue in cheek) ------ I hope

[EnigmaRam]

45 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Is 8 million a good deal at today’s prices ? Tyrone Mings went for 8m in 2015, you look at prices that PL clubs play now for good English players, and he fulfills his potential it’s a bargain imo.

Yes but Mings was a stand out performer over the whole season.

as good as Bogle is at 18, Mings was a lot more consistent in his performances.

Bigke has had half a season where most of his performances have been mediocre. I’m not knocking him as he’s young and learning but he hasn’t been standout in any way

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

9 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

What WE value him at is totally irrelevant. 

 

(I do know your post was tongue in cheek) ------ I hope

Your kidding, I thought we set the price and they either like it or lump it....

[BathRam72]

10 minutes ago, CHCDerby said:

Your kidding, I thought we set the price and they either like it or lump it....

If that is the case then I apologise but I have heard nothing. 

[Ghost of Clough]

12 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Yes but Mings was a stand out performer over the whole season.

as good as Bogle is at 18, Mings was a lot more consistent in his performances.

Bigke has had half a season where most of his performances have been mediocre. I’m not knocking him as he’s young and learning but he hasn’t been standout in any way

Mings didn’t make his debut for Ipswich until he was 20. The season he was the “stand out performer” was when he was 21/22

[clarkeram7]

Mings could defend ?

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, EnigmaRam said:

Yes but Mings was a stand out performer over the whole season.

as good as Bogle is at 18, Mings was a lot more consistent in his performances.

Bigke has had half a season where most of his performances have been mediocre. I’m not knocking him as he’s young and learning but he hasn’t been standout in any way

As pointed out Mings wasn’t even a regular at Bogles age, even his first season he was in and out of the team, therefore how can you call him out as a stand out performer and more consistent?

“From the minute I have been here Jayden Bogle has been fantastic,” said Lampard.

"I heard he was a talent, and he has shown that he can perform at a top level in the Championship and in our Carabao Cup run at Manchester United and at Chelsea.

"So, of course, people will look at players who are performing that well."

Says it it all really 

[EnigmaRam]

1 hour ago, AdamRam said:

As pointed out Mings wasn’t even a regular at Bogles age, even his first season he was in and out of the team, therefore how can you call him out as a stand out performer and more consistent?

“From the minute I have been here Jayden Bogle has been fantastic,” said Lampard.

"I heard he was a talent, and he has shown that he can perform at a top level in the Championship and in our Carabao Cup run at Manchester United and at Chelsea.

"So, of course, people will look at players who are performing that well."

Says it it all really 

You mentioned him about when he was sold and what for. I gave you the reasons why and imo Bogle hasn’t achieved the level of performances or consistency that Mings showed when he went for that price.

[Wolfie20]

27 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

You mentioned him about when he was sold and what for. I gave you the reasons why and imo Bogle hasn’t achieved the level of performances or consistency that Mings showed when he went for that price.

Mings was 4 years older than Bogle is now when he was signed by Bournemouth. Bogle has already played more games at the same Championship level in his first season than Mings had by the time he'd reached 21 so who knows how good Bogle will be in another 3 years time.

We don't know but to try and draw a comparison with Mings is futile and irrelevant.

[AdamRam]

26 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

You mentioned him about when he was sold and what for. I gave you the reasons why and imo Bogle hasn’t achieved the level of performances or consistency that Mings showed when he went for that price.

I didn’t follow Mings career that closely to know what his performances were in 2015, so I take your word for it. However the point is that at 18 Mings couldn’t even break into the Ipswich team, therefore imo JB is already ahead of the performance and consistency showed by Mings at that age.

Lets compared him to our other youngsters on loan, all of which have been inconsistent in their performances of which some can be attributed to their age, do we think that Liverpool or Chelsea would let them go for anything under 15 m ? 

Therefore for me that’s why Bogle would be a bargain at 8m, these managers are looking at his performances based upon his age, if we weren’t under FFP restrictions we wouldn’t even entertain that figure.

[AdamRam]

6 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Mings was 4 years older than Bogle is now when he was signed by Bournemouth. Bogle has already played more games at the same Championship level in his first season than Mings had by the time he'd reached 21 so who knows how good Bogle will be in another 3 years time.

We don't know but to try and draw a comparison with Mings is futile and irrelevant.

TBF I mentioned Mings as a comparison for the 8m figure that is being banded around and how prices have rocketed since then.

[DcFc Dyycheee]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/11607924/burnley-eyeing-move-for-derby-defender-jayden-bogle

Burnley are monitoring Derby County's highly-rated right-back Jayden Bogle.

Sky Sports News understands Rams boss Frank Lampard would be willing to let the 18-year old defender leave in the current January transfer window if the right deal can be agreed.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I didn’t follow Mings career that closely to know what his performances were in 2015, so I take your word for it. However the point is that at 18 Mings couldn’t even break into the Ipswich team, therefore imo JB is already ahead of the performance and consistency showed by Mings at that age.

Lets compared him to our other youngsters on loan, all of which have been inconsistent in their performances of which some can be attributed to their age, do we think that Liverpool or Chelsea would let them go for anything under 15 m ? 

Therefore for me that’s why Bogle would be a bargain at 8m, these managers are looking at his performances based upon his age, if we weren’t under FFP restrictions we wouldn’t even entertain that figure.

Probably because he wasn't at Ipswich ?

Released by Southampton at 16. Went to Bristol Rovers and was released at 18. Moved to non-league Tate Town and Chippenham Town over the next year before being spotted by Ipswich .

[Harrowram]

Id he goes to Burnley he might play against us next season! Not their type of player He doesn't scrap enough.

[clarkeram7]

28 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I didn’t follow Mings career that closely to know what his performances were in 2015, so I take your word for it. However the point is that at 18 Mings couldn’t even break into the Ipswich team, therefore imo JB is already ahead of the performance and consistency showed by Mings at that age.

Lets compared him to our other youngsters on loan, all of which have been inconsistent in their performances of which some can be attributed to their age, do we think that Liverpool or Chelsea would let them go for anything under 15 m ? 

Therefore for me that’s why Bogle would be a bargain at 8m, these managers are looking at his performances based upon his age, if we weren’t under FFP restrictions we wouldn’t even entertain that figure.

At 18 Mings was not at Ipswich. He was playing non-league football ??

Either way you're clearly a massive fan of Bogle, as I was with Vydra.

The bottom line is, the squad still needs a hell of a lot of work and we don't have the money to reinvest, with Wisdom already at the club the arguement isn't whether Bogle will become a top player or not. It's whether at this stage, where arguably he isn't a good defender, we can turn a large amount of income(in Championship terms) into 2/3 signings and improve the whole squad like we did in the summer with Vydra. 

[Jimbo Ram]

7 minutes ago, clarkeram7 said:

At 18 Mings was not at Ipswich. He was playing non-league football ??

Either way you're clearly a massive fan of Bogel, as I was with Vydra.

The bottom line is, the squad still needs a hell of a lot of work and we don't have the money to reinvest, with Wisdom already at the club the arguement isn't whether Bogle will become a top player or not. It's whether at this stage where arguably he isn't a good defender we can turn a large amount of income(in Championship terms) into 2/3 signings and improve the whole squad like we did in the summer with Vydra. 

If we genuinely haven't got any money to invest in the squad I think we would have to sell if 8million was offered so we can reinvest in the squad and bring a couple of quality players in, probably on loan.