Bogle

[Premier ram]

 The stick Bogle gets from some Derby fans amazes me , at the start of the season these same fans were raving about this boy and yes even mentioning he would play for England in the future , yes his form has dipped , like most of the squad , the own goal at Boro knocked his confidence and the injury to Bennett , who he was building a great understanding with has also hampered his development , give this boy all the support and understanding you can as he will go on to have a good career in the game with or without us

[Jimbo Ram]

18 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I’d definitely look to sell as it’s the only way we’re going to generate enough funds to improve the team. Without improvement, we will struggle to win promotion this season. 

If we haven't got any funds I tend to agree. But only for a decent price and with a sell on clause......

[RIMBAUD]

4 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

 The stick Bogle gets from some Derby fans amazes me , at the start of the season these same fans were raving about this boy and yes even mentioning he would play for England in the future , yes his form has dipped , like most of the squad , the own goal at Boro knocked his confidence and the injury to Bennett , who he was building a great understanding with has also hampered his development , give this boy all the support and understanding you can as he will go on to have a good career in the game with or without us

Spot on.

Quite a few people were bigging up Max Lowe.  Jayden is better atm and will go on to be better in the future imo.

[TobyWanKenobi]

1 hour ago, Doodle said:

9 he’s a bit small to play in goal 

The Holmes at left back is bound to get injured, so use the 10th as a sub.

[RiddingsRam]

37 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Bogle is absolutely nowhere near their level but agree to disagree mate and I respect your opinion. Bogle isn’t even a guaranteed starter over Wisdom, whilst Walker-Peters went to the camp nou with spurs against Barcelona and but for one mistake, did well. My personal opinion is that we have a tendency to overrated our youngsters. Even Lowe is a long way away yet from being a good left back. We are so desperate for another Will Hughes type youngster to come out of the system when they might simply not be there.

I’ll be honest, I’m not a huge fan of Bogle defensively or offensively so if we got a very good offer, I’d be inclined to take it and improve in other areas of the team.

He's nowhere near TAA , agreed , but he's arguably England's best right back at the moment. 

You say it like it's a bad thing that Wisdom occasionally starts over him. It wasn't long ago Liverpool rated Wisdom highly enough to be close to the first team and 18 year old Jaden has ousted him from our first team . 

I agree with you totally on Lowe , I don't think he's anywhere near the level needed and looks the same player that left for Scotland . Where he probably found his level.

 

[EnigmaRam]

Very confusing, he’s either crap or the next England right back! His price could go up or could not. He’s only worth £2 mil but shouldn’t accept £8 mil. He can’t stop a cross and he can’t cross a ball. 

Hes either the messiah or a very naughty boy and I can’t work out which! ?

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

I give, name them. 

Hull away - Carson in no mans land. Minor at fault.

Bolton away - Bogle completely out of position, shape lost as others dragged across. Minor.

QPR away - should have pushed free kick out further from goal/around post. Better feet movement and would have caught it. Medium fault.

Sheff Utd home - Bogles attempt at stopping John Fleck was pathetic (So was roughly three other players). Minor.

West Brom away - Rodriguez runs off him to complete a 1-2. Minor.

Boro Away - Carson should stop 4 yards out to catch and relieve pressure but we know he is glued to line. Bogle miskicks. Major from both of them.

Chelsea away - Fabregas shot should be stopped. Medium.

Villa first - Bogle completely by winger for cross which McGinn heads in. Medium.

Villa second - Bogle gone walking and shape lost again. Ball crossed in and Abraham scores. Minor.

Wednesday away - Carson should stop that with feet instead of diving with hands. Medium.

Stoke first - stronger hand from Carson saves it. Medium.

Stoke second - must stop that shot from Ince. Major. Cross not stopped by Bogle.

Sheff Utd away - header from Sharpe I think he should stop. Really slow getting over to it. Medium.

Sheff Utd away - Clarke header which deflected off Bogle, possibly Bogle could have reacted better to deflect it over bar. Minor.

Norwich away - their last one from Pukki. Bogle completely done by the attacker who crosses it. Medium.

Boro home - how easy did they get their cross in from the throw in. Bogle loses standing in front of his man and Lamps even said they worked on this during the week before! Minor.

Southampton - Bogle wanders into no mans land for the first from Redmond. Major.

Leeds first - Carson HAS to catch that corner. Doesn't need to jump, no one near him. Major.

So that's 18 goals between them of which I've classed 12 with medium or major errors. I've analyses the few seconds before the goals but I cannot cover the 30 seconds or so before.

Looking at all goals conceded, it's amazing just how many Tomori has also had a medium/major contribution to and how few Keogh has the same level of contribution.

In an attacking style, possession based (adds pressure) we are lucky to have Keogh. The amount of headed clearances he does do are phenomenal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rammieib]

Forgot to say, my post completely ignores the amount of crosses which do come in from RB as well!!

[Wolfie20]

Just now, EnigmaRam said:

Very confusing, he’s either crap or the next England right back! His price could go up or could not. He’s only worth £2 mil but shouldn’t accept £8 mil. He can’t stop a cross and he can’t cross a ball. 

Hes either the messiah or a very naughty boy and I can’t work out which! ?

Maybe he's just an 18 year old playing in the Championship for the first time who not surprisingly makes mistakes. At that age, for the vast majority of young players, confidence is fragile and the amount of stick he gets from some supporters is shameful and beggars belief.

Whether his current value is £2m or £10m is dependant on what we as a selling club would let him go for and prospective buyers would be prepared to pay. Personally, unless we received a bid in excess of £5m i wouldn't entertain it.

[northantsram]

2 hours ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

So who you selling to allow us to bring players in then? Pretty obvious to me that over the last few windows players coming in have depended on players going out. 

£8m (reported in the sun) now is a hell of a lot of money to Derby. If Bogle breaks his leg in the next match we might not receive an offer like that again.

I'm not against selling him, every player has there price. If 8m is the figure we get that allows us to do the business Frank thinks we need then I will be more than happy. January is often a very hard month to get players at a decent price though. 

[Parsnip]

4 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Both good signings for Burnley 

They paid absolutely top whack for Hendrick - he was never worth £10m. Vydra can't get a kick at Burnley. Complete waste of money.

[i-Ram]

29 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Hull away - Carson in no mans land. Minor at fault.

Bolton away - Bogle completely out of position, shape lost as others dragged across. Minor.

QPR away - should have pushed free kick out further from goal/around post. Better feet movement and would have caught it. Medium fault.

Sheff Utd home - Bogles attempt at stopping John Fleck was pathetic (So was roughly three other players). Minor.

West Brom away - Rodriguez runs off him to complete a 1-2. Minor.

Boro Away - Carson should stop 4 yards out to catch and relieve pressure but we know he is glued to line. Bogle miskicks. Major from both of them.

Chelsea away - Fabregas shot should be stopped. Medium.

Villa first - Bogle completely by winger for cross which McGinn heads in. Medium.

Villa second - Bogle gone walking and shape lost again. Ball crossed in and Abraham scores. Minor.

Wednesday away - Carson should stop that with feet instead of diving with hands. Medium.

Stoke first - stronger hand from Carson saves it. Medium.

Stoke second - must stop that shot from Ince. Major. Cross not stopped by Bogle.

Sheff Utd away - header from Sharpe I think he should stop. Really slow getting over to it. Medium.

Sheff Utd away - Clarke header which deflected off Bogle, possibly Bogle could have reacted better to deflect it over bar. Minor.

Norwich away - their last one from Pukki. Bogle completely done by the attacker who crosses it. Medium.

Boro home - how easy did they get their cross in from the throw in. Bogle loses standing in front of his man and Lamps even said they worked on this during the week before! Minor.

Southampton - Bogle wanders into no mans land for the first from Redmond. Major.

Leeds first - Carson HAS to catch that corner. Doesn't need to jump, no one near him. Major.

So that's 18 goals between them of which I've classed 12 with medium or major errors. I've analyses the few seconds before the goals but I cannot cover the 30 seconds or so before.

Looking at all goals conceded, it's amazing just how many Tomori has also had a medium/major contribution to and how few Keogh has the same level of contribution.

In an attacking style, possession based (adds pressure) we are lucky to have Keogh. The amount of headed clearances he does do are phenomenal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that space you left at the end of your post (major).

[Derbylad92]

1 hour ago, Premier ram said:

 The stick Bogle gets from some Derby fans amazes me , at the start of the season these same fans were raving about this boy and yes even mentioning he would play for England in the future , yes his form has dipped , like most of the squad , the own goal at Boro knocked his confidence and the injury to Bennett , who he was building a great understanding with has also hampered his development , give this boy all the support and understanding you can as he will go on to have a good career in the game with or without us

I dont think its his form thats dripped its because he hasnt got bennett in front of him! As soon as bennett went out injuried bogle wasnt the same player 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Why are people so obsessed with seeing the world as either black or white?

He’s clearly a talented player who has been regarded as a top prospect at the club for a couple of years now. He’s established himself in the first-team squad and has (in my opinion) improved as the season has gone on.

However, he clearly has flaws in his game. The main weakness that we identify for the team as a whole is that we let too many crosses into the box. Clearly, Bogle has to take some responsibility for that. That’s natural. An 18 year old is not going to be the finished article.

I’d ask for £10 million but would perhaps accept £8 million. That doesn’t mean I don’t rate him; rather that I think the figure I quoted would represent his value at this moment in time. Jack Marriott is my favourite player in years, but if someone offered us £20 million I’d snap their hand off.

Football isn’t a binary sport. It’s far more in depth than ‘Player X is class, Player Y is crap’. Just because we lose one game doesn’t mean that the whole project is doomed; it might just mean that the other team were better than us in the day.

I can't believe that people haven't learned that lession after watching the game for decades.

[DCFC1388]

2 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

Firstly, I think you're taking an unnecessarily negative view if your assumption is that his value will only go down having played just half a season. Whatever he is worth now, and it's nowhere near £8 million, his value should only go up the more he plays because he will become a better player with good coaching and more experience. He has shown enough already that he has a lot of talent. I take what you say about his value could go down, but he's come into the first team and played half a season straight off. That suggests there is plenty in there already but more to come. It's not like your Callum Balls of this world who knock on the door for ages, have a couple of games and disappear. (Sorry B4).

Secondly I don't think we need to sell to spend in this window, on the basis that anyone coming in at this stage will be a loan.

In the summer, enough players are out of contract to have a significant affect on what Frank's spending budget will be.

Added to that, and someone who knows far more about it that I do will be able to tell us, doesn't the current FFP cycle end in the summer?

All of that said, you're right that if someone comes along and offers £8 million for Bogle up front, yes of course we'd be stupid not to seriously consider it. I'm basing my argument on it not being the case as I don't believe anything I read the Sun, Mail or Mirror. I can't see that we'd get any more than £2 to £2.5 up front and that isn't enough to sell considering his potential and what we'd need to pay for a replacement.

 

Im not be negative to just be negative, im being realistic. Thousands of young players have potential, just because they play more games doesnt mean their value will increase, it just doesnt work like that. Thats why if its 8m (the quoted figure) with addons & % then to me thats a great deal as IF he does go on to reach the potential he has then we will still benefit financially, and if he doesnt we still got 8m. For anyone to think he is that much of a certainty to improve beyond the 8m figure mentioned I would love to know why as that is one big (8m) gamble and assumption to place on the young lad.

[SaintRam]

Regardless of your opinion of Bogle as a player, you can't generate funds (that we need) by only getting rid of players with no stock in the market. Just the reality.

I'm a huge fan of his, though, couldn't disagree more with all the people slamming him.

[LazloW]

12 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

Why are people so obsessed with seeing the world as either black or white?

 

Very well said ?

[ossieram]

5 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

And what makes you think we'd get anything like £8 million for a teenage who has had half a season in the first team?

Why with more games etc wouldn't his value increase.

Will Hughes isn't a good example. We undersold due to a number of circumstances, mostly that he wanted to go and we only had one bidder.

 

Did he really want to go, or was he basically forced out by Rowett telling he wouldn't be getting a game?

[Ramslad1992]

1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said:

Why are people so obsessed with seeing the world as either black or white?

He’s clearly a talented player who has been regarded as a top prospect at the club for a couple of years now. He’s established himself in the first-team squad and has (in my opinion) improved as the season has gone on.

However, he clearly has flaws in his game. The main weakness that we identify for the team as a whole is that we let too many crosses into the box. Clearly, Bogle has to take some responsibility for that. That’s natural. An 18 year old is not going to be the finished article.

I’d ask for £10 million but would perhaps accept £8 million. That doesn’t mean I don’t rate him; rather that I think the figure I quoted would represent his value at this moment in time. Jack Marriott is my favourite player in years, but if someone offered us £20 million I’d snap their hand off.

Football isn’t a binary sport. It’s far more in depth than ‘Player X is class, Player Y is crap’. Just because we lose one game doesn’t mean that the whole project is doomed; it might just mean that the other team were better than us in the day.

I can't believe that people haven't learned that lession after watching the game for decades.

Shut up talking sense and sit in the corner with a can of dark fruits! 

[Doodle]

3 hours ago, Parsnip said:

They paid absolutely top whack for Hendrick - he was never worth £10m. Vydra can't get a kick at Burnley. Complete waste of money.

Bogle for 8 mil and Vydra on loan back to us and snap their hands off. Bogle may turn out to be a Premier league player and even an England player one day but not whilst he plays for Derby. We don’t need potential, we do need proven championship quality. I hope the lad turns into a world beater but if Derby are to get out of our financial predicament and out of the championship. We need to take tough decisions and take sentiment out of the equation