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Has Lampard been as excellent as many people suggest?


Sexydadbod

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Not saying Mason Bennett is the answer for us by any means, but I think that he exemplifies what Lampard wants to see in a player. When Bennett plays he always shows the fight and determination that Frank so often talks about. Bennett is no world beater by any means, he’s an alright Championship player, but Lampard always gets so much out of him up to the point where I’d say we are a better side with Bennett in the team. We haven’t really been the same since his injury (which was against Villa at 0-0, a game we went on to lose 3-0).

Long story short, I think that given the time to get his own players in that fit his mould Lampard will do a great job. Gonna take time 

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4 minutes ago, SIWY said:

Not saying Mason Bennett is the answer for us by any means, but I think that he exemplifies what Lampard wants to see in a player. When Bennett plays he always shows the fight and determination that Frank so often talks about. Bennett is no world beater by any means, he’s an alright Championship player, but Lampard always gets so much out of him up to the point where I’d say we are a better side with Bennett in the team. We haven’t really been the same since his injury (which was against Villa at 0-0, a game we went on to lose 3-0).

Long story short, I think that given the time to get his own players in that fit his mould Lampard will do a great job. Gonna take time 

He's back in training! 

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I agree with everybody who has said this (and other similar) threads would not have appeared if we had won on Friday.  It is subtle, but the usual suspects' pitchforks are being sharpened, the matches are being lined up to light the torches, the razor blades are set out on the sink ready for use....

As far as I'm concerned, he is doing OK.  I don't expect the team to win every game, particularly as I understand we aren't the best team in the league.  There might be those who might think we should be the best team in the league, but I don't agree.  While I don't subscribe to the view that we haven't had a decent budget, we have still had to bring in a lot of new players in a short space of time.  Some of those players won't come off (Lampard will not be the first manager to make mistakes in the transfer market, though its probably still too early to conclude any of his signings are definitely mistakes).  We also had some weaknesses last season, which Rowett would have had to address anyway.  Frank was not therefore handed the finished article (though it wasn't as bad as it might have been if he'd gone to Ipswich for example). IMHO we were pretty fortunate to get in the play offs last year, because alot our play was pretty dreadful, but we were solid enough to grind out many results.  We certainly weren't gojng to walk the league this year, so don't know what people really expected.  We clearly aren't as resilient this season yet, but even on our bad days I am enjoying this season far more than last.

I hope people can remain patient and we can give a manager some time to bed in without the grumbling. It is unnecessary at the moment anyway.  

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Yeah he’s doing well. 6th will be a great finish if we can stay there. 

Maybe I’m too eager in wanting to see the team improve throughout the season, that might come next year. As long as some learning takes place and we head in the right direction i’m all for what’s going on. 

 

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2 hours ago, Nookiebear1 said:

I agree he's being overrated by some sections of the media but I think he's been better than average. He inherited a squad who played defensive football and only won games because Vydra scored. The team wasone of the oldest in the championship and he's come in and injected youth and a new playing style (which I like in general) and he's done it with no money so yes he's done a very good job. Imo

Yer I'd agree the the majority of that paragraph but would have to take you to task about the no money statement, think your glasses have become somewhat rose tinted if you consider about ten million quid for Waghorn, Jozefoon and Marriott being no money.

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32 minutes ago, Alpha said:

 I like the look of what Frank's trying to do even though we aren't there yet.

I don't like sit back, absorb, counter attack tactics. The tactics Rowett used all game every game in all situations. Boring. 

I go to football for entertainment and I have more faith in Lampard delivering it than Rowett. Just personal opinion 

Has he been excellent? Depends what you expected. I kind of eexpected this. We look naive. New manager innit?

Genuine question mate, what style of football is Lampard aiming for because I’m none the wiser? I can see he wants to play offensively but what style? He talks about wanting to play a high energetic game which to be fair we have done on occasions like vs West Brom but then in many other games , it is slow, pedestrian like, almost Clement esc and the goals scored in contrast to last season suggests we have gotten worse offensively. McClaren used to be slaughtered at times when our football was slow, which wasn’t his fault tbf because all our dms were injured, the focal point Martin got injured and Buxton got injured which meant a whole reshuffle in defence.

 

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58 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Frank seems frustrated, peevish almost, when we don't play well. I do wonder if it's because he hasn't had to deal with the limitations of operating at this level before. The novelty of being a new manager is wearing off, and he wants the next hit, which isn't grinding out results in the second division

I'm only speculating, thinking aloud, but I have the image of a dissatisfied posh kid, given a fiesta at 17 and promised a porsche when he's 21. Probably doing him a complete injustice, but he needs to start pimping the fiesta and get donutting it around the car park of Wetherspoons if he's ever going to be ready for the porsche. 

To me, he looks tired.

It might sound daft, but it's his first management job, he's had to move house, get to grips with a new working environment, and to top it off there's a new baby in the house. 

All stressful things in themselves, combine them together and it must be tough going, especially as it seems he never stops thinking about football.

He seems a bit snappy with Chris Coles in his interviews recently too, and he's the least idiotic of the RD team.

 

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He's doing well in having the team around where they might be expected to be whilst lowering the age and trying to shift deadwood.

I wouldn't get carried away, but, he's showing he has got it to be a manager (make a decent living out it, I'm not saying he's shoe in to be a top manager), he's showing he is learning as the season progresses, I think everyone can be satisfied without getting carried away.

The big test is coming up however, if we navigate our annual nosedive effectively and cope without an influx of signings I think we can feel very good about him. 

Finishing top 6 is still a good season and I'd take falling just short as long as we're still trying to be an attractive team.

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I wonder - and this is deliberately overstating my point - whether there are/were many other available managers capable of achieving what Frank (and Jody and Chris and Shay) have achieved so far this season.  And I say that expecting us not to finish in the top 6 at the end of the season.

Just consider, for a minute, the size of the task when he came in.  A club with a dominant figure, with a reputation (deserved or not), as an owner; a club with a large and largely old first team squad with an unhealthy proportion of experienced players reaching the end of their careers; a club that needed to sell to buy; a club with an unachieved strategy of bringing young players through from their (expensive) academy; a club that had an unfulfilled ambition to get promoted; a club with a succession of short term managerial appointments; a club in the public eye;  and a club with a large but starting to become disaffected, fan base.

What he has achieved so far this season, in his first ever managerial job, has, in my opinion, been remarkably good.  He's made tough decisions (about the futures of some players, for example); he's changed the playing style; brought in younger players, some from the academy but he has very clearly given academy staff and players the belief that there's a route through to the first team; he appears to manage upwards extremely well and he certainly deals with the media side of his job fantastically well; he has moved himself, wife and new daughter into the area; he has got the team to 6th having delivered some (positive) performances that will live long in the memory - I won't ever forget the first 40 minutes at Middlesborough or 90+ minutes at Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge - and because he's changing things there's been inconsistencies too; and he's got the fanbase largely positive.  And he's done all that - and in my view this is his single biggest achievement - without one single word of disaffection coming out of the dressing room, even from those not playing or not playing well or whose contracts are up at the end of the season.  It seems to me that he has had a hugely positive impact throughout the club.

Thank God that social media and fora weren't around in Sir Brian's day when in his first full season (without transfer windows), we finished 18th or something; Arthur struggled to get us out of Division 3 while he was making changes; Jim was (after 15 games or so) successful in his first season but was highly experienced and with a contacts list as long as your arm plus a wealthy chairman, no FFP and Igor.

Both Frank and Mel talk about being involved in a long term project.  I hope they both mean it.  It takes time this managerial lark.

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I think bar exceptions (ie wolves last year, Newcastle under Benitez and that reading team that got like 106 points?) most teams in the championship find it really difficult to find consistency, self belief and the intensity to perform their best each week. I mean even Leeds, who lets face it look a cut above everyone this season lost at home recently to Hull, away to forest and I’m sure there’s been a couple more occasions where they have unexpectedly lost. And I think that’s because all in all the players in the teams at the right end of the table aren’t individually miles better then those at the lower end in this league. It’s why some teams go from a play off push to relegation battle the next season. It seems to be all about having the right manager to get the most from the team. (See warnock at Cardiff and Wagner at Huddersfield).

 

Whats frustrating for Derby is that we have been in the promotion mix for what 6 years now? We always seem to flirt with 5th or 6th and no matter the players or the manager we never seem to push on and find a higher level of consistency to make that final step. This is the reason why I think more people will see our current form and league position frustrating because it feels like the same old feeling.

 

When in fact I do think lampard is overall doing a good job. We have a bloated squad with a lot of players that need to be moved on in the summer, he’s got the overall age down and at times we look like a positive team with a high pressing game. Recently we have let ourselves down but with easier fixtures to come I think we will secure a top 10 finish. Not sure we are anywhere near ready for promotion and if we do finish top 6 I imagine we would lose again so I think a 7th or 8th place finish would be a success for a transition season. The summer will be interesting as it looks like a lot of players will be leaving. 

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3 hours ago, McLovin said:

No I’m not calling for Lampard out. I’m intrigued to see people’s views on Lampard as our manager so far. I keep hearing by many former players and pundits about what an excellent job Lampard has done here so far. I’m really struggling to see what has been so excellent about it? We are up and around the play offs like we have been for the last 5 or so years, yet under some of our previous managers, pundits have said that we should be there anyway with the money we have spent. Are they overrating Lampard? 

At this stage last season under the “defensive Rowett” we had scored:  44 goals, conceded 23,Goal difference of +  21, 52 points

In contast to this season under the “free flowing Lampard” we have scored 38 , conceded 34, goal difference of +4, 43 points, make your own mind up on those stats.

Of Lampard’s permanent signings, in my view, only Marriott(who was recommended by Terry) can be seen to be a success, although Holmes is slowly coming into his own and looks good.

In my opinion the season can be broken down as this(note performances not the actual results):

Some excellent performances: West Brom(a), Chelsea(a), Man Utd(a), Hull(cup a), Middlesbrough(first half a)

Some Good performances: Brentford(H), Norwich(a), Sheff Utd(H), Southampton(H)

A lot of average performances: Ipswich(H), Reading(A), Middlesbrough(h), Bristol City(h), sheff wed(a), Birmingham(h), Hull(a), preston(h), millwall(a).

A few terrible performances: Leeds(h+a), Sheff Utd(a), Stoke(a), Bolton(a), Rotherham(a), Aston villa(h)

 

As you can see, a lot of inconsistently. For me, I struggle to see what direction we are going with our footballing style. Lampard has spoken a lot about liking high intensity, pressing like under McClaren and to be fair, on the odd occasion when we do play that like West Brom away, we are irresistible at times. However, in the vast majority of the games, we often keep possession just for the sake of keeping possession akin to Clement and pass the ball at the back. Alternatively, if that doesn’t work, we resort to a lot of hoof ball to Marriott like in the last few weeks. Last point is that like last season with Vydra, we rely on a lot of individual quality to get goals like Wilson, which isn’t sustainable .

Overall, in my view, Lampard hasn’t been  very good or poor, probably somewhere in the middle but to go as far as excellent for getting us in the play offs so far? I’m struggling to see it.

Can't really argue with much of that...

I'm a fan of his,hated rowett so I'm in the reasonably happy camp.

Nowhere near the level that Mac 1 achieved almost from day one however and I've seen the team slowly going backwards of late..whether that's injuries or just Frank's inexperience,I don't know.

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43 minutes ago, LazloW said:

I agree with everybody who has said this (and other similar) threads would not have appeared if we had won on Friday.  It is subtle, but the usual suspects' pitchforks are being sharpened, the matches are being lined up to light the torches, the razor blades are set out on the sink ready for use....

As far as I'm concerned, he is doing OK.  I don't expect the team to win every game, particularly as I understand we aren't the best team in the league.  There might be those who might think we should be the best team in the league, but I don't agree.  While I don't subscribe to the view that we haven't had a decent budget, we have still had to bring in a lot of new players in a short space of time.  Some of those players won't come off (Lampard will not be the first manager to make mistakes in the transfer market, though its probably still too early to conclude any of his signings are definitely mistakes).  We also had some weaknesses last season, which Rowett would have had to address anyway.  Frank was not therefore handed the finished article (though it wasn't as bad as it might have been if he'd gone to Ipswich for example). IMHO we were pretty fortunate to get in the play offs last year, because alot our play was pretty dreadful, but we were solid enough to grind out many results.  We certainly weren't gojng to walk the league this year, so don't know what people really expected.  We clearly aren't as resilient this season yet, but even on our bad days I am enjoying this season far more than last.

I hope people can remain patient and we can give a manager some time to bed in without the grumbling. It is unnecessary at the moment anyway.  

I think this is spot on.

Also, if Rowett had still been here, all his players would have been a year older too, so unless he was also prepared to sell Vydra (he definitely seemed to be out of favour towards the end of the season with Rowett) he would have been struggling with all the same problems Lampard is facing. He also wouldn't have had the pull to bring in quite the quality of our younger loan players to give us a bit of flair. Who knows how he would have spent the money and what sort of football he'd be dishing up? We were pretty much in freefall towards the end of the season. 

Fozzy, Ledley and Davies would also still have got injured and he'd still have had Olsson out. Would he have brought in the youngsters from the under 23s or would he have fallen back on the old guard, Butterfield, Pearce, Anya, Thorne? We know he'd ignore Martin! 

It's all speculation either way and we all have our favourites who we might have kept. The fact that they vary from poster to poster shows just how fine the margins are that we are working with. Ultimately we want to move these players on so I do admire that Frank has stuck to his guns and once he has decided the squad he wants to work with, he's remained true to it.

What I don't understand is the proliferation of these type of threads after every defeat, usually started by posters who cite third parties as being the ones making the statement, rather than themselves!

I actually don't hear a lot of people saying Frank is doing an excellent job yet. I think they are commenting that he's made a promising start, he's working within financial limitations (when compared to other clubs who currently have promotion ambitions) and that we are a work in progress. But that wouldn't make a very interesting topic, would it?

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I 'd say so far he has been bang average 6 out of 10 , nothing bad enough to call him out but not good enough to sing his praises either by any means.  The summer singings have been indifferent and the performances horribly inconsistent, you can clearly see it is not his team yet as we clearly lack the midfield to play to his philosophy.  If we finish 6th and loose in the play offs I wouldn't class that as a good season as that is what we do every year, at the same time that would be a satisfactory outcome that shouldn't be complained about too much as that is what is a realistic expectation for this squad. If we finish outside the top 6 that would be poor Imo , with less than 10th a sackable position for the funds he has been given and the loans we have brought in. Personally, I reckon if we don't buy anybody we will, finish 8th which would mean a disappointing season in my book considering the loans we have got in and how crap we will be next season without significant investment as the loans will expire and many contracts will run out so we will be in FFP trouble and will have to sell to buy, with a limited amount  of assets to stabilize our balance books after the absolute screw ups made by previous managers.  Obviously we have had some great performances, but if you judge it on the whole apart from him being more likeable he has not done any better than Rowett or Clement at the same stage in the season , and I am not convinced in the quality of the likes of Lowe, Bennett, and Bogle, even though it is good we are trying to bring through youth players I  wouldn't do it at the expense of results. 

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16 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think this is spot on.

Also, if Rowett had still been here, all his players would have been a year older too, so unless he was also prepared to sell Vydra (he definitely seemed to be out of favour towards the end of the season with Rowett) he would have been struggling with all the same problems Lampard is facing. He also wouldn't have had the pull to bring in quite the quality of our younger loan players to give us a bit of flair. Who knows how he would have spent the money and what sort of football he'd be dishing up? We were pretty much in freefall towards the end of the season. 

Fozzy, Ledley and Davies would also still have got injured and he'd still have had Olsson out. Would he have brought in the youngsters from the under 23s or would he have fallen back on the old guard, Butterfield, Pearce, Anya, Thorne? We know he'd ignore Martin! 

It's all speculation either way and we all have our favourites who we might have kept. The fact that they vary from poster to poster shows just how fine the margins are that we are working with. Ultimately we want to move these players on so I do admire that Frank has stuck to his guns and once he has decided the squad he wants to work with, he's remained true to it.

What I don't understand is the proliferation of these type of threads after every defeat, usually started by posters who cite third parties as being the ones making the statement, rather than themselves!

I actually don't hear a lot of people saying Frank is doing an excellent job yet. I think they are commenting that he's made a promising start, he's working within financial limitations (when compared to other clubs who currently have promotion ambitions) and that we are a work in progress. But that wouldn't make a very interesting topic, would it?

Please explain on what planet has Frank worked with financial limitations? We have a budget  in transfers and wages that  most clubs at this level would envy, we have spent the 3rd highest amount in the league on transfer fees , even if we have made a £0 net spend  we have bought in a lot of players on decent fees and wages.  Look at Shefield United in the automatic promotion places with a limited budget, Hull and Bristol city right up our arses with a pittance budget and Norwich above us and challenging for top 2 on a limited budget as well. We need a better scouting system as there is clearly better value in the lower leagues and foreign leagues, such as Norwich getting Pukki on a free and Leeds getting Roofe in.  Marriott and Holmes are good signings but our other permeant ones haven't been too good, and we have become reliant on players we don't even own.

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39 minutes ago, SIWY said:

Not saying Mason Bennett is the answer for us by any means, but I think that he exemplifies what Lampard wants to see in a player. When Bennett plays he always shows the fight and determination that Frank so often talks about. Bennett is no world beater by any means, he’s an alright Championship player, but Lampard always gets so much out of him up to the point where I’d say we are a better side with Bennett in the team. We haven’t really been the same since his injury (which was against Villa at 0-0, a game we went on to lose 3-0).

Long story short, I think that given the time to get his own players in that fit his mould Lampard will do a great job. Gonna take time 

Interestingly Mason was singled out for praise multiple times by Frank earlier in the season, so is it a surprise he responded?  I think herein lies a clue as to where I feel Frank needs to develop as a manager.  He has an eye for a player, sees the big picture, knows how he wants to play, is a great ambassador for the club and has developed a rapport with the fans but...

I still think he's got a little way to go in terms of motivation and man management.  Take our first matches of the season with Frank probably a bag of nerves, that translated into us coming out and looking as nervy as hell for the first quarter of those matches (Reading and Leeds for those who've forgotten).  I am reliably informed that the changing room on both occasions was fairly subdued.  Then think about Frank's demeanour before the Leeds game and tell me that hasn't translated into the dressing room and onto the pitch. 

The fact that slow starts have been a recurring theme suggest that a change in pre match (and possibly half time) approach is needed.   I'm not slating Frank here it's quite possible that some of the team are still a little in awe of Frank or that Frank is working through the process of transitioning from a player within a group to being the manager of a group.  Either way I'm not sure Frank has realised the full scale of the impact his actions have on the team.

If you think about it, Franks touchline demeanour also has a hint of this.  He's not a tubthumping, rabble rouser and he hasn't quite worked out how to influence the on pitch performance. Yet.

This is all compounded by the team being relatively young, and therefore being likely to lack the individual and collective resilience that you would get with a more experienced squad.  People talk about young players being inconsistent for a reason.

So in short it's a learning curve for Frank and this squad together and I'm sure they'll get there.  I hope that we (Mel and the fans) give them the time and space to develop. 

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Young side so inconsistent will be likely, when we’ve been bad we’ve been really really bad but we are doing better than I thought, must be given time, He’s learning still sometimes making to many changes to starting line up... Waghorn is a strange one

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It’s a fair question I think he’s been good but has inevitably made mistakes due to his inexperience.

The style is better than Rowetts even though we’ve gone of the boil. I think he’s also got a tougher task than some of his predecessors as he needs to trim the squad which he’s doing.

All in all I think he’s made good progress and it won’t be until next season that we can really start to draw conclusions as to his true level of success. I know some argue that the loss of Wilson and Mount will devastate us and next year will be a right off unless we get promoted so we can retain them. But I disagree hey are big cracking players but not irreplaceable and we may even be able to replace them with players that work better in terms of team balance!

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3 minutes ago, Topram said:

Young side so inconsistent will be likely, when we’ve been bad we’ve been really really bad but we are doing better than I thought, must be given time, He’s learning still sometimes making to many changes to starting line up... Waghorn is a strange one

It makes me think what was the point in even buying Waghorn?, he has played a key part in big games yet Lampard seems to have little faith in him and has mostly played him out of position on the wing when he is clearly a striker.

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