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Ram8

UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS ..

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Trying to think why the mood after the Leeds defeat is so downbeat ..

Ok, we were dreadful on the night, and lost badly to one of our bitterest rivals,  but I have a feeling it adds up to more than that, and I believe that some of the early optimistic judgements made about certain players have a lot to do with it .. 

Scott Carson .. early in the season he was regularly being rated as one of our top three keepers ever. This reputation has been severely tested after a number of schoolboy errors, and the realisation that his distribution skills need drastic improvement ..

Jayden Bogle .. after his first few games he was being mentioned as a future England international, and a saleable asset in the Will Hughes class. He has since been downgraded to a promising Academy product, with much still to learn .. 

Fikayo Tomori .. has more pace than our other centre backs, but has been frequently exposed when tight marking required .. 

Craig Bryson .. after his season in the wilderness with Cardiff, he was hailed as the ‘Returning Messiah’, a view that has now lost total credibility with the realisation that he contributes nothing in midfield anymore, and is obviously, and sadly, past his sell by date .. 

George Evans .. touted as the natural successor to Tom Huddlestone, a view painfully exposed last night, with the realisation that, without Tom in the team, our creativity and composure are seriously lacking against a team as good as Leeds ..

Mason Mount .. could do no wrong early in the season, our very own ‘boy wonder’ and creative midfield dynamo, the future fulcrum of the England national team. Since been ‘missing’ in many games where the action has passed him by, and revealed his callow youth and inexperience .. 

David Nugent .. supposedly our ‘super sub’ for an injection of enthusiastic running late in a game, but fruitless chasing (albeit with a smile on his face) doesn’t add up to a productive contribution anymore; another one way past his sell by date I’m afraid ..

 Tom Lawrence .. supposedly his ‘breakthrough season’, when his latent talent emerges to reveal his consistently creative contributions to our forward play. Not happened has it, just as frustrating as ever .. 

Jack Marriott .. enormous promise as a natural goalscorer, but due to being isolated up front, without support, is increasingly cutting a frustrated figure; and until Lampard brings back Chris Martin to partner him, will remain so ..

Martin Waghorn .. was going to be Chris Martin’s (£5 million pound) replacement, but been nothing more than an occasional sub, like Marriott, not really his fault ..

Frank Lampard .. I’m afraid has to take responsibility for some of the above, in his inconsistent selections, and the resultant lack of continuity and consistency in our performances, but hopefully will learn from his mistakes in time to get us ‘through the gate’ this time !! 

 

 

Edited by Ram8

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See this is where I get confused.

Everyone pretty much agreed that this was to be a season of transition, big earners to be shipped out and average age of the squad to be lowered considerably. 

Then after literally 4 good performances out of 20, the goalposts get moved.

Now for me the notion of a whole season of transition for me is just a myth. There are way too many unknown and variables for there to be such a thing.

Sure I'm happy to go along with the ride and see where we end up but how can you seriously call a season of transition when you have so many players and managerial changes?

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2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

See this is where I get confused.

Everyone pretty much agreed that this was to be a season of transition, big earners to be shipped out and average age of the squad to be lowered considerably. 

Then after literally 4 good performances out of 20, the goalposts get moved.

Now for me the notion of a whole season of transition for me is just a myth. There are way too many unknown and variables for there to be such a thing.

Sure I'm happy to go along with the ride and see where we end up but how can you seriously call a season of transition when you have so many players and managerial changes?

It's always a season of transition until we start doing well. If we hit the top 6 at any point then top 2 becomes the target and anything less is seen as a failure and/or loss of bottle.

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This thing we have about Leeds being a "rival" is getting embarrassing. Sure we had a few tasty tussles in the 70's, but we are on Leeds' fans radar like say Coventry or West Brom are on ours. Or indeed like Leeds themselves are on Manu's . I hope we can put to bed this "rivalry" we have with Leeds. 

Another point regarding your post. Frank has really still only just come to our club. I for one am so happy he is here. We all knew he was going to be on a learning curve and we all knew funds were limited , if available at all. And Frank must have known this too. We are getting a reaction just now on social media you'd expect if we were in the bottom 6 of the championship, but we are still in 6th place. !

 

 

Everybody needs to calm down. 

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18 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

Frank Lampard .. I’m afraid has to take responsibility for some of the above, in his inconsistent selections, and the resultant lack of continuity and consistency in our performances, but hopefully will learn from his mistakes in time to get us ‘through the gate’ this time !! 

Of course he has to take some responsibility for it. But look at it objectively, it's his first managerial job, a few months into the season and we're in and around the playoffs. This period of time is his first big test as a manager, and I have faith he'll turn it around and get us playing like we were earlier in the season again. I don't think we'll go up this year, but look where Norwich were with Farke after last year, they stuck with him and had faith and now it's paying off. We should do the same with Frank.

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24 minutes ago, Ram8 said:

Trying to think why the mood after the Leeds defeat is so downbeat ..

Ok, we were dreadful on the night, and lost badly to one of our bitterest rivals,  but I have a feeling it adds up to more than that, and I believe that some of the early optimistic judgements made about certain players have a lot to do with it .. 

Scott Carson .. early in the season he was regularly being rated as one of our top three keepers ever. This reputation has been severely tested after a number of schoolboy errors, and the realisation that his distribution skills need drastic improvement ..

Jayden Bogle .. after his first few games he was being mentioned as a future England international, and a saleable asset in the Will Hughes class. He has since been downgraded to a promising Academy product, with much still to learn .. 

Fikayo Tomori .. has more pace than our other centre backs, but has been frequently exposed when tight marking required .. 

Craig Bryson .. after his season in the wilderness with Cardiff, he was hailed as the ‘Returning Messiah’, a view that has now lost total credibility with the realisation that he contributes nothing in midfield anymore, and is obviously, and sadly, past his sell by date .. 

George Evans .. touted as the natural successor to Tom Huddlestone, a view painfully exposed last night, with the realisation that, without Tom in the team, our creativity and composure are seriously lacking against a team as good as Leeds ..

Mason Mount .. could do no wrong early in the season, our very own ‘boy wonder’ and creative midfield dynamo, the future fulcrum of the England national team. Since been ‘missing’ in many games where the action has passed him by, and revealed his callow youth and inexperience .. 

David Nugent .. supposedly our ‘super sub’ for an injection of enthusiastic running late in a game, but fruitless chasing (albeit with a smile on his face) doesn’t add up to a productive contribution anymore; another one way past his sell by date I’m afraid ..

 Tom Lawrence .. supposedly his ‘breakthrough season’, when his latent talent emerges to reveal his consistently creative contributions to our forward play. Not happened has it, just as frustrating as ever .. 

Jack Marriott .. enormous promise as a natural goalscorer, but due to being isolated up front, without support, is increasingly cutting a frustrated figure; and until Lampard brings back Chris Martin to partner him, will remain so ..

Martin Waghorn .. was going to be Chris Martin’s (£5 million pound) replacement, but been nothing more than an occasional sub, like Marriott, not really his fault ..

Frank Lampard .. I’m afraid has to take responsibility for some of the above, in his inconsistent selections, and the resultant lack of continuity and consistency in our performances, but hopefully will learn from his mistakes in time to get us ‘through the gate’ this time !! 

 

 

I claim my £10, with that report you are the guy from Leeds who was at our training ground on Thursday

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For me we have already made progress this season, we have changed the way we were playing to a style more attributed to Derby, we have lowered the average age, we are bringing our youth products into the team and we are challenging for the play offs.

I look at where we were at the end of last season, similar to where Brighton were when we demolished them in the play offs, I remember a Brighton fan saying then how far ahead of them we were at the time, they had to go through a season or two of rebuilding. Fulham hammered us last season, the result was flattering to us, the football was atrocious, and we had an ageing team.

Last nights result came as no suprise, we haven’t got the players to deal with high intensity sides, not yet anyway, and this will probably take a few transfer windows to get to that level. Yes FL will make mistakes, it’s a learning curve for him as well, transition season or rebuilding, call it what you want, but he needs time to shape and put out a team that he wants to play his brand of football...not just one window.

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Barring a collapse in the second half of the season that sees us finish bottom half and miles away from the playoffs, Frank has delivered everything I wanted and expected this season. Style of play has improved young players coming through, when the dross of 15/16 leaves in the summer we can complete the rebuild. This was always a transition season, fact we’ve got a decent chance at the play offs is fantastic.

I was fully expecting not to get promotion this season and just wanted to see a change in the direction with the club a better playing style and building for the future. I’m happy with this......as long as the red dogs don’t get promoted! And they’re doing a great job at ducking it up so makes me feel easier about this season. 

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55 minutes ago, Arturram said:

This thing we have about Leeds being a "rival" is getting embarrassing. Sure we had a few tasty tussles in the 70's, but we are on Leeds' fans radar like say Coventry or West Brom are on ours. Or indeed like Leeds themselves are on Manu's . I hope we can put to bed this "rivalry" we have with Leeds. 

Another point regarding your post. Frank has really still only just come to our club. I for one am so happy he is here. We all knew he was going to be on a learning curve and we all knew funds were limited , if available at all. And Frank must have known this too. We are getting a reaction just now on social media you'd expect if we were in the bottom 6 of the championship, but we are still in 6th place. !

Everybody needs to calm down. 

Of course they are rivals, they are in the same division and have been for a while.

A lot of people still hate them because of the 70s.

Afraid the thing about Lampard having 'limited funds' is a fallacy, he had the 3rd highest spend on players in the division during the summer transfer window plus he has access to the top clubs youngsters based on what he achieved during his playing career.

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20 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Barring a collapse in the second half of the season that sees us finish bottom half and miles away from the playoffs, Frank has delivered everything I wanted and expected this season. Style of play has improved young players coming through, when the dross of 15/16 leaves in the summer we can complete the rebuild. This was always a transition season, fact we’ve got a decent chance at the play offs is fantastic.

I was fully expecting not to get promotion this season and just wanted to see a change in the direction with the club a better playing style and building for the future. I’m happy with this......as long as the red dogs don’t get promoted! And they’re doing a great job at ducking it up so makes me feel easier about this season. 

Other than 4 or 5 games I'm not sure the style or play has improved dramatically. 

I can name probably 10 matches from this season that were no better than the majority of the football served up last season. 

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After losing 4-1 at home to Leeds, i was worried to be honest. Inexperience every where.

From the coaching staff, to the defence, the young loans etc.

So to sit top 6 with most of the hard games done is brilliant for me. 

We aren't playing well, but the fixtures get a bit easier, and I think we need that to control games and boost confidence in our play. 

Can't really demand much more with the dross we have not making the bench but earning enough to end poverty in Africa.

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Transitional season or not you can’t get into the top 6 and then say “well it’s a transitional season, it’s okay to drop away now”. Look at our squad compared to Huddersfield’s and Cardiff’s when they went up, it’s probably better. They didn’t stop playing because of a lack of funds and injuries. Too many excuses. It’s tight this year and on our day we can beat anyone. People Talking about next season need to understand that quite a few won’t be here and Wilson and Mount our most talented players will be gone! Who has shown any signs of replacing them? Holmes? Because he can take someone on and pass, until he scores some goals he won’t fill there boots. Big season to go for it otherwise it looks like another 3 in the championship

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My post wasn’t intended to be negative, or particularly critical of Frank Lampard.

I was merely pointing out that the early season assessments of the abilities of some of our players were in many cases overly enthusiastic, and have proved in the fullness of time to require a more realistic appraisal.

And Frank Lampard, as a first season manager, still has some things to learn, understandably. Indeed I believe his philosophy will ultimately bring us success, but not without some further tactical adjustments.

The next few matches will give us some idea of the learning curve required.

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2 hours ago, Ram8 said:

Trying to think why the mood after the Leeds defeat is so downbeat ..

Ok, we were dreadful on the night, and lost badly to one of our bitterest rivals,  but I have a feeling it adds up to more than that, and I believe that some of the early optimistic judgements made about certain players have a lot to do with it .. 

Scott Carson .. early in the season he was regularly being rated as one of our top three keepers ever. This reputation has been severely tested after a number of schoolboy errors, and the realisation that his distribution skills need drastic improvement ..

Jayden Bogle .. after his first few games he was being mentioned as a future England international, and a saleable asset in the Will Hughes class. He has since been downgraded to a promising Academy product, with much still to learn .. 

Fikayo Tomori .. has more pace than our other centre backs, but has been frequently exposed when tight marking required .. 

Craig Bryson .. after his season in the wilderness with Cardiff, he was hailed as the ‘Returning Messiah’, a view that has now lost total credibility with the realisation that he contributes nothing in midfield anymore, and is obviously, and sadly, past his sell by date .. 

George Evans .. touted as the natural successor to Tom Huddlestone, a view painfully exposed last night, with the realisation that, without Tom in the team, our creativity and composure are seriously lacking against a team as good as Leeds ..

Mason Mount .. could do no wrong early in the season, our very own ‘boy wonder’ and creative midfield dynamo, the future fulcrum of the England national team. Since been ‘missing’ in many games where the action has passed him by, and revealed his callow youth and inexperience .. 

David Nugent .. supposedly our ‘super sub’ for an injection of enthusiastic running late in a game, but fruitless chasing (albeit with a smile on his face) doesn’t add up to a productive contribution anymore; another one way past his sell by date I’m afraid ..

 Tom Lawrence .. supposedly his ‘breakthrough season’, when his latent talent emerges to reveal his consistently creative contributions to our forward play. Not happened has it, just as frustrating as ever .. 

Jack Marriott .. enormous promise as a natural goalscorer, but due to being isolated up front, without support, is increasingly cutting a frustrated figure; and until Lampard brings back Chris Martin to partner him, will remain so ..

Martin Waghorn .. was going to be Chris Martin’s (£5 million pound) replacement, but been nothing more than an occasional sub, like Marriott, not really his fault ..

Frank Lampard .. I’m afraid has to take responsibility for some of the above, in his inconsistent selections, and the resultant lack of continuity and consistency in our performances, but hopefully will learn from his mistakes in time to get us ‘through the gate’ this time !! 

 

 

And you've just slagged off every player, bravo fan of the year, bore off

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2 hours ago, plymouthram said:

I claim my £10, with that report you are the guy from Leeds who was at our training ground on Thursday

 

Bloody hell! That comment had me choking beer on my keyboard! Top marks.

Coming from a Leeds point of view, I've got to say I expected so much more from Derby on Friday. I reckoned your lot would be playing out of their skins after the media frenzy this week but they honestly looked second best to every ball.

I think you've got to cut Lampard some slack here, the guy is learning as a manager and matches like this must only help in the long term. I shouldn't say it out loud really because of his Chelsea heritage, but I have always rated this feller as a person as well as a player, and I genuinely hope he does a good job with Derby. There really isn't any animosity from Leeds fans in general towards Derby (except on matchdays... but that's a given).

More importantly though, who is that clown Lowe? Is left back his normal position? He stunk the place out!

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