Dean (hick) Saunders Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 It’s probably not a formality that he will accept this offer anyway. Being the best payed player at a mid range SPL club may be worse than he could do financially at another Champ club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCAR Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Dean_Saunders said: It’s probably not a formality that he will accept this offer anyway. Being the best payed player at a mid range SPL club may be worse than he could do financially at another Champ club. .... and whichever champ club that is (if it happened) would go up - just like Cardiff did - you just know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Personally I would offer Bryson and Johnson new deals which would reflect thier current value to us so that would be about a third of thier current wages with a maximum of two year deal apiece- they both contribute and help the youngsters but obviously they won’t be playing every week. - would they want that reality ? Who knows but we would be sensible to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 9 hours ago, TommyPowel said: How can you say take away his goals So should we take all players goals away before making a judgement? of course not.Bryson has been here 8 seasons in this day and age it might be considered trivial.But loyalty deserves praise not just shrugged off as tho he was some sort of 1 season wonder. FFS I'm not on about taking them off him, and not giving them back. I'm saying that if he's not scoring goals from his position he's near enough redundant. He's not creative enough to be a No 10, and he's not disciplined enough to play in the defensive/holding role. All he's good for is running about a lot and passing to a colleague who's within 10 feet of him. For a modern box to box midfielder, especially in a three man midfield you need something more... He's been a good, and loyal (very well paid) member of the squad but you go handing out new contracts based on 18 months of good form... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 10 hours ago, TommyPowel said: Hence the vegan sausage roll? That took you 2 months to think of that answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 20 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Johnsons been here 4 years and had about 15 decent games . Half of those were in the first 10 matches . Bryson has not been the same player since the injury in 2015 . But I would never say his output has been worse than Johnsons. too harsh. He's not great but he has probably had 15 really good games and many more decent games (and probably even more bad games!). I guess you are letting your prejudice cloud your judgement. Thought he had a decent game on Saturday and was close to MoM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Spanish said: too harsh. He's not great but he has probably had 15 really good games and many more decent games (and probably even more bad games!). I guess you are letting your prejudice cloud your judgement. Thought he had a decent game on Saturday and was close to MoM. Same as against Wigan on Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, CHCDerby said: That took you 2 months to think of that answer ? like wine the best take time to mature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 15 hours ago, TommyPowel said: So yes we may be about to buy a midfielder.who will he be better that Bryson i doubt it Aron Gunnarsson if fit please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 20 hours ago, Spanish said: too harsh. He's not great but he has probably had 15 really good games and many more decent games (and probably even more bad games!). I guess you are letting your prejudice cloud your judgement. Thought he had a decent game on Saturday and was close to MoM. He's an immensely frustrating player - If he concentrated on doing the simple things well he'd be unplayable - But he seems to think he's better than he is On Saturday he was caught in possession 3-4 times in our own half and had to be dug out of holes by the defence because of it - When Wednesday had the ball he was great, energetic, passionate, determined, strong in the tackle - But when we had the ball I was nervous every time the ball went to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, cheron85 said: He's an immensely frustrating player - If he concentrated on doing the simple things well he'd be unplayable - But he seems to think he's better than he is On Saturday he was caught in possession 3-4 times in our own half and had to be dug out of holes by the defence because of it - When Wednesday had the ball he was great, energetic, passionate, determined, strong in the tackle - But when we had the ball I was nervous every time the ball went to him I think the positives for Johnson far outweigh the negatives for what we currently need. Yes he does the give the ball away but mostly in attempting to be positive. He has had many good games for us. That run under Mac2 as dm was immense. He had some great games earlier on this season and has been vital to digging us out of this poor form the last two games. The problem is Bryson just does the simple these days, he won't give the ball away because he never plays a risky pass. But these passes don't achieve anything because when the space does open up, he can't turn and move it forward. I find Bryson far more frustrating. In too many games you could fail to notice Bryson on the pitch, but not in a good way. You pretty much always know Johnson is there, his failings become obvious because he tries to impose himself on the game. Neither are the long term solution to our midfield. And I don't think either will be here next season. But on performances this season, Johnson is the far more likely to get a new deal. We have a great chance this summer to finally rework our midfield, it would be foolish to let nostalgia get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, BondJovi said: I think the positives for Johnson far outweigh the negatives for what we currently need. Yes he does the give the ball away but mostly in attempting to be positive. He has had many good games for us. That run under Mac2 as dm was immense. He had some great games earlier on this season and has been vital to digging us out of this poor form the last two games. I agree and disagree with that ? I agree he does try positive balls and forward passes, long balls out to wide players etc - And 9/10 times it turns out he doesn't have the quality to pull them off - I'd rather he made space and played a simple ball to Huddlestone or Tomori who CAN make those passes (which btw is exactly what Bryson does) However - The 3/4 times he lost the ball against Wednesday was because he dithered with the ball at his feet in his own half - Either got his feet mixed up, reacted slowly to a player closing him down, tried to make a sneaky turn/beat a player - And lost the ball with the rest of the midfield further up the pitch Bryson is a self-aware footballer - Knows his strengths/weaknesses and plays to them - Johnson is a good player who messes up too often because he thinks he has the ability of Huddlestone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Daft question but what are the connotations for Bryson on FFP? We know writing off Johnson for example will hamper us, but is Bryson someone that wouldn't really affect us? Would we be using the £500k fee we paid, or something based on the £1.75m supposedly agreed with Cardiff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rample said: Daft question but what are the connotations for Bryson on FFP? We know writing off Johnson for example will hamper us, but is Bryson someone that wouldn't really affect us? Would we be using the £500k fee we paid, or something based on the £1.75m supposedly agreed with Cardiff? I think the value tops out at the cost rather than a revaluation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, Rample said: Daft question but what are the connotations for Bryson on FFP? We know writing off Johnson for example will hamper us, but is Bryson someone that wouldn't really affect us? Would we be using the £500k fee we paid, or something based on the £1.75m supposedly agreed with Cardiff? My uneducated opinion... Bryson was signed before residual values were a thing, so his ‘FFP value’ will be £0, so him leaving at the end of his contract will have no FFP impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Spanish said: I think the value tops out at the cost rather than a revaluation 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: My uneducated opinion... Bryson was signed before residual values were a thing, so his ‘FFP value’ will be £0, so him leaving at the end of his contract will have no FFP impact. This is going to be a fun black hole to vanish into ? I would imagine it depends on whatever asset value they assigned him in the finances - I would imagine it depends how they balance the books using asset value I looked the other day at the 16/17 season finances and the increase in 'asset value' was about £9m - Including Nugent, Vydra and Anya as key asset additions (total spend around £14-15m?) - Which suggest Hendrick going out was maybe around £5m as an asset? It's possible I'm reaching here though as only skim read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, cheron85 said: This is going to be a fun black hole to vanish into ? I would imagine it depends on whatever asset value they assigned him in the finances - I would imagine it depends how they balance the books using asset value I looked the other day at the 16/17 season finances and the increase in 'asset value' was about £9m - Including Nugent, Vydra and Anya as key asset additions (total spend around £14-15m?) - Which suggest Hendrick going out was maybe around £5m as an asset? It's possible I'm reaching here though as only skim read it Bryson was signed for c£450k in the summer of '11 on a 3 year deal. His 'value' was therefore £0 at the end of the 13/14 season. From what i recall, residual values weren't used until afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just a query? does that mean any player signed before 2014 as a residual value of £0? if so then its just those players(if any others)salery that is taken into account on FFP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Bryson was signed for c£450k in the summer of '11 on a 3 year deal. His 'value' was therefore £0 at the end of the 13/14 season. From what i recall, residual values weren't used until afterwards. Yeh, but there's a weird loophole with football because of the 'value' of footballers - Because their value is so high they're given theoretical values as assets - For instance I don't think you could insure a player against injury or anything like that if they had a zero assets value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 My take on Bryson's FFP valuation. 450k plus agents fees(X2), based on his extension. Add on 45k agents fees based on his fee, 18k for his original contract, based on a 3yr 5k a week deal, and 500k based on his 5 year extension at 20k a week. That makes total asset value of £950,000 give or take at the start of his extension, no idea if any loan fee received would offset this, so I'll leave it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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