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reveldevil

Vs Leeds away. (Matchday thread).

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1 hour ago, cstand said:

The best two posters on this forum by a million miles are B4 for his/her enthusiasm and Angie Ram for common sense,  crass comments come from judge n jury folk who slag other posters off.

Saw @B4ev6is at the end of the game tonight. He was gutted but looking forward to playing Southampton on Wednesday. He's had a hard night tonight, inexplicably pulled over by the drugs searchers, which was very unsettling, but still there supporting the team for all he was worth. 

If you don't get the honest place where B4's passion for the team comes from, you don't get football. 

I don't usually see your posts @Inglorius because I have you on ignore - comments like the one cstand quoted remind me why! 

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1 hour ago, RiddingsRam said:

Men against boys that ! Sat in a bar in Leeds deliberating the performance. Did it look as bad on the TV as it was in the flesh ? Please tell me it didn't ? (I know it did really) . 

We got totally schooled by a ducking genius of football . Envious of that Leeds performance like I was when they did us all over at PP . 

Our shape was wrong , individual performances were inept all round . Feel really deflated right now.  

All part of the learning curve for Frank et al. We are smarting but it’ll be 10x for him. And we’ll be better for it in future. 

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9 minutes ago, REDCAR said:

Smashing post, and made me feel a bit less sick about tonight’s result, thank you

Well I have just realised that we have to play the long game, and it takes out much of the anger and frustration when you understand where we are.

At this level, the teams who are successful have either made inspired appointments who have an instant galvanising effect, or they have given a manager time to develop something and reaped the rewards.

For the first category, think Bielsa at Leeds, think Nuno at Wolves. 12 months ago, Leeds were decidedly average. The same can be said for Wolves prior to Nuno’s arrival. 

For the second, think Hughton at Brighton, as a prime example of a team who grew over time.

I don’t think Frank falls into the first category, sadly. He is simply too inexperienced.

So we have to look at it as a project, where both the club and the manager can grow together. 

This is not Frank’s team. If he were a chef, we’d say he is in the kitchen trying to piece together a showstopping meal with the remains of what 4-5 other chefs left behind.

So the summer clear out presents the perfect opportunity for us to press the reset button where the squad is concerned, clear out the fridge and the pantry and Frank can get to work.

His job really truly starts in the summer, and I think when you understand that it makes everything a little easier.

 

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17 minutes ago, Fraser_23 said:

I’m no tactical genius or anything and I was at the pub so my judgement may have been dazzled but.... DUANE HOLMES AT RIGHT BACK??????? WTF. He’s our only player who can actually create chances and take players on. No idea what Frank was thinking Jesus 

Don't know you Fraser but let's just agree that you are no tactical genius and had had a few by half time when Frank made the change.

Andre was not having a good game. Too many Leeds attacks were coming down that side and he wasn't dealing with them. How much that was his fault and how much the part fault of others is more debatable.

But we were one down, Andre wasn't playing well and Frank wanted to bring Nugent on to give Marriott more support and to give their defence more to think about - it was an attacking change.  Duane Holmes had had an OK first half. He had a better second half - made some tackles, brought the ball forward, troubled some of their players, played in their half and put us (together with Nugent) more on the front foot.  Still not good enough but Frank's thought process was excellent. He took a risk - frustrated by the early second half goal - that was positive. Some of our previous managers would have stuffed another defender on and taken Duane off. Which do you prefer?

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16 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Disclaimer: Before posting I'd like to say that this is probably due to the fact I've only just got back, and I'm drunk and pissed off.

I thought we were absolutely dreadful. We had no cohesion, our defending was lazy and we couldn't string more than two passes together. We were lumping the ball up aimlessly for a huge part of that game. We're lucky Leeds didn't play as well as I've seen them play before because it could have and should have been more ugly than the home game. 

I think Mason Mount is the most overrated player we've ever had. He received an England call up with his off a good start, and he's been anonymous since. He's a brilliant technical footballer, but he never ever shows for the ball and he hides in big games. He isn't a central midfielder, he's a number 10. 

Tom Lawrence once again was really frustrating. He's clearly got talent in there, but when he's not playing well he is our most wasteful player. 

Jack Marriott: was he even playing? He is absolutely not to blame for the defeat, yet I can't help feeling like I want him to offer more. He was really isolated tonight, but even when he got the ball he looked a step off the pace. I was quite disappointed with his performance. 

A note on the midfield in general: they're crap. Not crap individual players, but they have a crap balance. Because of this, and I think this might be me being over the top here, but I don't see us finishing higher than upper mid table. Leeds walked through the centre of us, and when we had the ball we had no control there or no options to pass there. We are in desperate need of two need centre mids, and unless we get it I really struggle to see us reaching playoffs.

A final word on Leeds and Bielsa, I think it's an utter disgrace. Bielsa is disgusting for openly cheating, I don't care how good of a manager he is, he's a cheating see you next Tuesday and he fits Leeds perfectly in that respect. Hope we complain to the FA.

Was expecting sooooooooooo much worse 🤣Think the bulk of the form are seven sheets to the wind my man so all good and some valid points made.

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Franks biggest challenge now is to work on the balance of the team imo. I'm not knocking any individual player as even good technical players are giving the ball away a bit too easily, not just tonight but over the last few games.

Leeds played like I believe Frank wants us to play, brave in wanting the ball in tight areas, hunting in packs, busting a gut for each other and showing quality under pressure. 

The spymaster general started embedding his philosophy at Leeds last season and the players now understand and believe.....thats Frank's challenge now, work on the balance of the team and make them work like Kenny Burns at a free buffet.

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Just now, 86 points said:

Was expecting sooooooooooo much worse 🤣Think the bulk of the form are seven sheets to the wind my man so all good and some valid points made.

I managed to get over how annoyed I was mainly on the train back 😅 It's just such a frustrating performance, I don't care about the result that much, I expected we would struggle to win the game, it's just the manner of how we played. If we'd gone down fighting and were just beaten because Leeds were brilliant then whilst I wouldn't be happy, I'd find it more palatable. It just felt like we didn't have any spirit, energy or fight out there, which was the worst part of it for me. 

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10 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I managed to get over how annoyed I was mainly on the train back 😅 It's just such a frustrating performance, I don't care about the result that much, I expected we would struggle to win the game, it's just the manner of how we played. If we'd gone down fighting and were just beaten because Leeds were brilliant then whilst I wouldn't be happy, I'd find it more palatable. It just felt like we didn't have any spirit, energy or fight out there, which was the worst part of it for me. 

You've just said in two sentences what it took me a page and a half to convey on a separate thread. Think I need more single malt...

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17 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Don't know you Fraser but let's just agree that you are no tactical genius and had had a few by half time when Frank made the change.

Andre was not having a good game. Too many Leeds attacks were coming down that side and he wasn't dealing with them. How much that was his fault and how much the part fault of others is more debatable.

But we were one down, Andre wasn't playing well and Frank wanted to bring Nugent on to give Marriott more support and to give their defence more to think about - it was an attacking change.  Duane Holmes had had an OK first half. He had a better second half - made some tackles, brought the ball forward, troubled some of their players, played in their half and put us (together with Nugent) more on the front foot.  Still not good enough but Frank's thought process was excellent. He took a risk - frustrated by the early second half goal - that was positive. Some of our previous managers would have stuffed another defender on and taken Duane off. Which do you prefer?

I’d rather we played a player in that position such as Bryson or Evans who maybe don’t offer much attacking wise but contribute massively defensively. What I’m trying to say is... Holmes is our most creative player IMO and he showed that vs Southampton. I don’t understand the decision to put him RB? He’s small, arguably not that strong and doesn’t really have to defend often. Whereas someone such as Evans can tackle, is strong and defends regularly so can play that role well. 

I know Frank wanted to bring on Nugent and I didn’t criticise the substitution he made, just the switch in positions in the team. 

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Although on the face of it that was a horrible performance and pretty painful to watch us get schooled  by Leeds, as much as I am disappointed this is clearly not Frank's team yet and we were up against a team who are top of the league for a reason. Next season will be the true test of his credentials,  I am sort of resigned to us finishing about 8th now to be honest and I have sort of given up on any hopes of promotion unless we can bring in a  couple in the next few weeks, I am not going to go overboard on criticism like I usually do, but I would be happy if not one of the defence that started tonight started for us next season and the midfield is a shadow of what is was when we had Hughes and Thorne and Bryson at their peaks, and I think Bryson although he tries should definitely not be playing for us next season if we have serious ambitions of promotion. 

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7 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

Although on the face of it that was a horrible performance and pretty painful to watch us get schooled  by Leeds, as much as I am disappointed this is clearly not Frank's team yet and we were up against a team who are top of the league for a reason. Next season will be the true test of his credentials,  I am sort of resigned to us finishing about 8th now to be honest and I have sort of given up on any hopes of promotion unless we can bring in a  couple in the next few weeks, I am not going to go overboard on criticism like I usually do, but I would be happy if not one of the defence that started tonight started for us next season and the midfield is a shadow of what is was when we had Hughes and Thorne and Bryson at their peaks, and I think Bryson although he tries should definitely not be playing for us next season if we have serious ambitions of promotion. 

Who are you and what have you done with @WAGHORNY RAM99 ? 😛

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18 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

One of my new years resolutions was to be less of mard arse on here after every game we loose,  I am not going to be a happy clapper now, just less over the top.

It's much better for your blood pressure 😉

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26 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

One of my new years resolutions was to be less of mard arse on here after every game we loose,  I am not going to be a happy clapper now, just less over the top.

If you can survive that performance then I think you’ve managed your resolution mate, I think (hope) we won’t see anything quite that bad again with our remaining fixtures. (Well get knocked for 5 by reading now naturally)

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In a game where we needed a bit more control i cannot understand why Huddlestone didn't play ? we had no one who could put his foot on the ball .... I know Leeds pressed us but Huddlestone is a clever player and watching the game again ( jeeez it seems worse second time around!!!) Leeds were attacking with 4 players basically so surely 2 CDMs would've made a difference 4231 would've been worth a try once we saw what they were doing ....i know hindsight is a good thing.

I really like Frank and do think he was dissapointed with the players and himself a tad tonight but he's making a few errors which we had to expect, he's new to management don't forget but lets not forget one thing,

When our manager Lampard was starting out at West Ham he was by far the finished article but is a person who stayed longer at training and threw himself into everything and worked his socks off to eventually become one of Englands best ever goalscoring midfielders.

My point being that Frank will get it right here albeit with a few mistakes along the way and if we finish in the top 6 this season that will be defined as a good start for him and us in a season of transition.

This is perhaps brutal but for me we will not see a lot of the team next season that started tonight including Lowe,Wisdom,Carson,Bryson,( although Bryson had a better game he's half a yard short now and fouls more than tackles ) also Nugent looked his age tonight and tries so hard but is over the hill unfortunately.

2 new full backs are essential as is 2 centre mids and another striker and possibly a number ten when changing formations so there is plenty to do so one window will not be enough .....offloading the deadwood here is essential and long due so i expect all of the players nearly out of contract to be let go, i would not keep one of them giving Frank a proper chance to shape his own team.

The only slight worry for me with Frank is that he doesn't appear to change a game too much with some tactical nous and to be honest Bielsa has outdone Frank quite easily in both games tactically as well but I really hope Frank gets it right as he seems a great bloke....plenty to play for this season so.....COYR 

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