Vs Leeds away. (Matchday thread).

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

Although on the face of it that was a horrible performance and pretty painful to watch us get schooled  by Leeds, as much as I am disappointed this is clearly not Frank's team yet and we were up against a team who are top of the league for a reason. Next season will be the true test of his credentials,  I am sort of resigned to us finishing about 8th now to be honest and I have sort of given up on any hopes of promotion unless we can bring in a  couple in the next few weeks, I am not going to go overboard on criticism like I usually do, but I would be happy if not one of the defence that started tonight started for us next season and the midfield is a shadow of what is was when we had Hughes and Thorne and Bryson at their peaks, and I think Bryson although he tries should definitely not be playing for us next season if we have serious ambitions of promotion. 

Who are you and what have you done with @WAGHORNY RAM99 ? ?

[Marriot Ram99]

3 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Who are you and what have you done with @WAGHORNY RAM99 ? ?

One of my new years resolutions was to be less of mard arse on here after every game we loose,  I am not going to be a happy clapper now, just less over the top.

[Comrade 86]

18 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

One of my new years resolutions was to be less of mard arse on here after every game we loose,  I am not going to be a happy clapper now, just less over the top.

It's much better for your blood pressure ?

[Millenniumram]

26 minutes ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

One of my new years resolutions was to be less of mard arse on here after every game we loose,  I am not going to be a happy clapper now, just less over the top.

If you can survive that performance then I think you’ve managed your resolution mate, I think (hope) we won’t see anything quite that bad again with our remaining fixtures. (Well get knocked for 5 by reading now naturally)

[S8TY]

In a game where we needed a bit more control i cannot understand why Huddlestone didn't play ? we had no one who could put his foot on the ball .... I know Leeds pressed us but Huddlestone is a clever player and watching the game again ( jeeez it seems worse second time around!!!) Leeds were attacking with 4 players basically so surely 2 CDMs would've made a difference 4231 would've been worth a try once we saw what they were doing ....i know hindsight is a good thing.

I really like Frank and do think he was dissapointed with the players and himself a tad tonight but he's making a few errors which we had to expect, he's new to management don't forget but lets not forget one thing,

When our manager Lampard was starting out at West Ham he was by far the finished article but is a person who stayed longer at training and threw himself into everything and worked his socks off to eventually become one of Englands best ever goalscoring midfielders.

My point being that Frank will get it right here albeit with a few mistakes along the way and if we finish in the top 6 this season that will be defined as a good start for him and us in a season of transition.

This is perhaps brutal but for me we will not see a lot of the team next season that started tonight including Lowe,Wisdom,Carson,Bryson,( although Bryson had a better game he's half a yard short now and fouls more than tackles ) also Nugent looked his age tonight and tries so hard but is over the hill unfortunately.

2 new full backs are essential as is 2 centre mids and another striker and possibly a number ten when changing formations so there is plenty to do so one window will not be enough .....offloading the deadwood here is essential and long due so i expect all of the players nearly out of contract to be let go, i would not keep one of them giving Frank a proper chance to shape his own team.

The only slight worry for me with Frank is that he doesn't appear to change a game too much with some tactical nous and to be honest Bielsa has outdone Frank quite easily in both games tactically as well but I really hope Frank gets it right as he seems a great bloke....plenty to play for this season so.....COYR 

[Topram]

Worries me that Lampard just doesn’t look happy, jan budget hasn’t helped, hope we stick and he sticks he won’t fail we are lucky to have him 

[Topram]

4 hours ago, LazloW said:

Yes, I imagine they will be getting a cracking score from the assessor!  

It was scarasm he was Awful

[McRainy]

4 hours ago, brady1993 said:

As a team they are us but 2 years further on in development.

How so? Bielsa only arrived in June and their best player is 18.

So disappointing tonight. I was looking forward to an exciting game between two fluid, attacking sides. Instead, we capitulated from the first minute. 

I've said it elsewhere and been ridiculed, but again I was struck by the difference in mentality, desire and team spirit. They absolutely play for each other as a unit, and desperately fight to win every ball. We are a bunch of half arsed individuals ghosting through the game. 

Most of Leeds' players are not world beaters. It's probably only Clarke and Hernandez who are of above average ability. Even Roofe is wasteful and inconsistent, but he never gives up. They are more than the sum of their parts, and that's down to coaching and attitude. 

I completely support Frank, but he's starting to annoy me. It takes more than looking peeved on the touchline whilst making the same mistakes over and over. He needs to start building some consistency around our strengths so that the players know what they're supposed to be doing. At the moment it's like we go back to square one every week. 

I suspect this season is as good as over. We're not good enough to go up, and I'd be seriously frightened if we did. Start building now for the changes that need to be made in the summer. I don't want us to make a couple of signings now to shore this team up. We need a long term plan in place, and to identify the correct players to carry it out. 

I thought before this game, it would be a measure of our progress since the summer. Unfortunately, it was. 

[S8TY]

Don't know how old Fraser Forster is but apparently hes up for grabs and that is where i'd start with us if we could get him at a decent price.The spine of this team needs a refresh 

[walkleyowl]

3 minutes ago, Saity said:

Don't know how old Fraser Forster is but apparently hes up for grabs and that is where i'd start with us if we could get him at a decent price.The spine of this team needs a refresh 

31 in March.

 

Leeds linked. Today aside is Carson the issue or is it more likely some of the old guard like Bryson or Keogh.

The Marriott sub was odd tonight IMHO

[S8TY]

10 minutes ago, walkleyowl said:

31 in March.

 

Leeds linked. Today aside is Carson the issue or is it more likely some of the old guard like Bryson or Keogh.

The Marriott sub was odd tonight IMHO

I don't think Carson is a priority no but the old guard do need a clear out, Bryson yes I'm still not sure about Keogh and am not alone in thinking like that, he at times is really good and no one can fault his enthusiasm and plenty of managers have picked him consistently but he was definitely party to blame for the second goal as he was leaden footed and didn't move for the second goal but Lowe should've put more effort in to stop the cross and not just on that occasion, I agree Marriott sub was odd and think we need to try 2 up top Waghorn and Marriott possibly.

I would've been screaming at Lowe and Wisdom tonight though as a CB because both were poor especially Lowe.

His defending was so poor and the poor lad looked totally out of his depth to me , didn't stop crosses , distribution was poor , why didn't Frank bring on Bogle and switch Wisdom to LB after about 20 mins ?? I will sound very harsh here but i think Lowe is league 2 or at a push league 1 standard at best 

[walkleyowl]

11 minutes ago, Saity said:

I don't think Carson is a priority no but the old guard do need a clear out, Bryson yes I'm still not sure about Keogh and am not alone in thinking like that, he at times is really good and no one can fault his enthusiasm and plenty of managers have picked him consistently but he was definitely party to blame for the second goal as he was leaden footed and didn't move for the second goal but Lowe should've put more effort in to stop the cross and not just on that occasion, I agree Marriott sub was odd and think we need to try 2 up top Waghorn and Marriott possibly.

I would've been screaming at Lowe and Wisdom tonight though as a CB because both were poor especially Lowe.

His defending was so poor and the poor lad looked totally out of his depth to me , didn't stop crosses , distribution was poor , why didn't Frank bring on Bogle and switch Wisdom to LB after about 20 mins ?? I will sound very harsh here but i think Lowe is league 2 or at a push league 1 standard at best 

It's odd how Roofe has morphed into Romario, he pulled the CBs all over.

With a high press you need the FBs to be on it, criminal how Allioski was allowed that much space, a minute in and he's got your right back thinking too much, not to drag him down but Allioski is average and never a wb/FB, should have isolated him early.

Hindsight is great though

[LeedsCityRam]

So. me & the other Derby fan at work got the dubious privilege of being dragged to the Norman Hunter Suite this evening under the flimsy pretence of 'corporate entertainment'. No pictures of the slack jawed moron missing the tackle that cost England a place in the 1974 World Cup on the walls but hey.

General impression - outclassed in every sense...mostly due to a lack of time/space because of Leeds' energy in closing down. Player ratings;

Carson - 5 - No chance with the goals but some flapping which didn't help confidence

Wisdom - 2 - diabolical, good call to take him off at half time

Lowe - 4 - looked nervous & offered very little from the left flank

Keogh - 6 - Steady, harsh to blame on the goals

Tomori - 6 - Again, steady...some runs out of defence that had some promise. Until someone mis-controlled it on their shin/fell over the ball

Evans - 5 - ineffective

Mount - 5 - ineffective

Bryson- 4 - there's a theme here. ineffective.

Holmes - 7 - liked his dynamism. Nothing came of it but liked his fight. Great hair. Filled in at RB in 2nd half

Lawrence - 5 - like a really really really bad version of Ronaldo

Marriott - 5 - no service, no chance

subs

Jozefzoon - 6 - ran around a bit

Waghorn - 6 - nice biceps

Nugent - 6 - he scored once for England yeah

Away fans - 5 - mostly silent. Some semblance of singing at 0-2 on around 70 mins, lasted 30 secs. 

Frankly, we were dreadful. As bad as the McClaren debacle in 2017...an absolute 2-0 hiding. Should have been 5/6. Appalling all round.

[Van der MoodHoover]

The posts on here are very saddening. The early season optimism seems a long time ago.

Frank was very eloquent at explaining how he wanted to play. But we seem to be getting further away from it.

He has kept a pretty settled GK plus CBs. Yet we do not seem to have improved our defensive organisation at all.

Is our coaching improving the players?

[California Ram.]

While not ignoring that we’ve had some fantastic moments this season - man u, chelsea, west brom, norwich etc ...

what a job Bielsa has done - that is a squad that was mid table last year and has now lost saiz and viera - keeper blackman broke his leg - baker’s gone back to chelsea - there’s a bunch of kids come in - their wage bill is mid table at best. The only money spent under this owner is on bamford, who’s hardly played. Hernandez is quality but not new. We outspent them on flo jo. 

As a club, obviously leeds are as bad as it gets and Allioski as irritating as you get but Bielsa - he’s a miracle worker

 

[admira]

Frank looked totally dejected from the moment we kicked off. Not once when the camera was on him did he open his mouth to shout any encouragement, he just looked like he didn’t want to be there. 

[toddy]

Reality check is needed here.

We are not as good as some think we are.!!

[RamNut]

Still trying to make sense of what happened there.

both full backs were very narrow in the first half which conceded loads of space on the wings. It looked like a deliberate defensive tactic which we'd worked on. Perhaps thats why their young winger made his debut? Maybe spying on training does indeed have a bearing on their team selection and tactical response?

We were hammered in the first half. Not seen that sort of relentless attacking intensity since gemmill, o'hare, hector, hinton. 

 For the corner from their left ( our right) i noticed that we had lawrence central and lowe short - facing the corner - so when it was punched out to the right (our left), all of our left sided players were out of position and bryson was left desperately trying to cover. Credit to Roofe for the finish when the cross came in, but we kept giving that kid winger too much time and space to cross. 

It was a bit like villa at home whereby their dominance prompted a very strange tactical response. I can't imagine that we had ever practiced with holmes at right back in a 442 with three centre mids? (And bogle was on the bench?). Against villa we went to three at the back, pushed bogle up and their winger Bolasie had a field day?

It looks as if plan b is made up on the spot.

 

[Chester40]

What is most annoying is that we were out-thought and out-fought from the first minute to the last. 

Sometimes you can think about key moments or crucial slips..but we were 2nd best in every aspect of the game for 90mins.

If you had predicted how things could look if Leeds played to full potential and we were really poor - that was exactly how it panned-out. Tactically they totally roasted us.

Lumping the ball out, sloppy in possession, panicking on the ball, not showing for the ball, getting caught on the back foot, generally being bossed all over the pitch.  We did not have control of the flow, pace of the game for a single minute of the 90.

That is not simply about the quality of the players, it is about the way we  approached the game, how we set up tactically, what instructions the players were given and how the players felt able to respond when under pressure.  In general the midfield went AWOL.

In many ways this performance has been coming because we haven't played well consistently in a game for a long time. The close passing game has slowly evaporated, the pace of the from the back has slowed, the all-round confidence of getting on the ball has waned.

Huddlestone would at least have tried to retain possession. Too many players weren't showing the necessary confidence.

Massive week for Frank now. Some good fixtures for us. For 'happy clappers' who say 'shut up, stop moaning, we are top 6' etc..this is what happens when performances aren't good but results are ok. Finally feel like chickens have come home to roost. We haven't been playing that well and now we can see how far off we are.

I would be watching that performance with the players at least 2 or 3 times today and showing them how off the mark we were. Next time out we need to get back to trying to play how Frank intends us to play for the next year or two and seeing who is capable of that rather than just trying to grind out points. Massive wake up call, really want Frank to settle on a team and especially the fullbacks and defensive midfield as the more we have tinkered the less control we have had of the ball and rhe worse the forward players have looked.

[Doodle]

39 minutes ago, admira said:

Frank looked totally dejected from the moment we kicked off. Not once when the camera was on him did he open his mouth to shout any encouragement, he just looked like he didn’t want to be there. 

I’m just hoping the spy stuff had unsettled him and there isn’t anything underlying. He seemed genuinely livid about the spy stuff and the Leeds managers blatant disrespect for him. Frank had a  bad day yesterday,  his initial line up, his inability to address the obvious problems and some bizarre changes in personnel and formation. All seemed to point to someone very distracted from the job in hand. We are in a bad run 1 win in 7 isn’t play off form, albeit against some good sides. He needs to dig deep now, I assume by the fact we’ve recalled Lowe, there is no money to solve the problems. We badly miss Wilson, hopefully him back and Malone , plus some easier games will get the confidence back up in the team, management and fans alike