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Vs Leeds away. (Matchday thread).


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12 minutes ago, RiddingsRam said:

Did they not make us look poor though ? We literally couldn't get on the ball !

They made us look poor, and we had no response.

Possibly the best performance against us in a long while, and a decent indication of where we need to be going forward.

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A lot being said about how good Leeds were. I’m afraid we made them look good too.  Other teams who they have beaten and been beaten by recently at home have given them much more of a game. A Leeds mate who was there tonight, said he and many around him were surprised at how poor we were rather than how great they were.

Our poor performances tend to be really poor. We need a settled unit. Will take a few windows but I am fully behind the ethos FL is trying to instill 

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Did anyone actually expect anything else from tonight?

This season, it’s Leeds away. Last season, it was Wolves away. The season before that, it was Brighton away.

Teams are passing us by and we are standing still. Leeds are just the latest example.

Let’s be honest, if it was anyone other than Lampard in charge, I think Mel would be getting the itch. 

Lampard is here to stay and rightfully so. He needs time and so we have to take the rough with the smooth.

So I am looking to the summer now and to see how Frank takes stock, learns some lessons and puts his stamp on the team.

Tonight obviously wasn’t nice, but let’s be realistic, promotion is the last thing we need to worry about right now. We’re simply not ready.

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14 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Did anyone actually expect anything else from tonight?

This season, it’s Leeds away. Last season, it was Wolves away. The season before that, it was Brighton away.

Teams are passing us by and we are standing still. Leeds are just the latest example.

Let’s be honest, if it was anyone other than Lampard in charge, I think Mel would be getting the itch. 

Lampard is here to stay and rightfully so. He needs time and so we have to take the rough with the smooth.

So I am looking to the summer now and to see how Frank takes stock, learns some lessons and puts his stamp on the team.

Tonight obviously wasn’t nice, but let’s be realistic, promotion is the last thing we need to worry about right now. We’re simply not ready.

Smashing post, and made me feel a bit less sick about tonight’s result, thank you

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I’m no tactical genius or anything and I was at the pub so my judgement may have been dazzled but.... DUANE HOLMES AT RIGHT BACK??????? WTF. He’s our only player who can actually create chances and take players on. No idea what Frank was thinking Jesus 

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Any fan who is saying it wasn’t that bad obviously turned the tv off after 15 seconds. I went to the game unfortunately I payed £37 to watch Leeds play against a makeshift shower or poo. I mean Holmes at RB? We don’t compete and have too many players living on past days who cost us goals Carson and Bryson. Next season this and that, if we can’t sign anyone now we won’t sign anyone then, no Wilson or Mount will equal bang average finishes for the next 3 seasons. Leeds are good but we were like burton at city (at least burton had a shot on target). Only 5 places above us somewhere and tearing us a new one.

 

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57 minutes ago, KCG said:

It is mediocrity!

How is top 6 mediocre? I'd wager the 17 other teams and their fans would have a wildly different opinion. If as your post seems to infer, the playoffs are sub-par by your way of thinking, perhaps your expectations needs adjusting? 

56 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Glad I’m not the only one that’s noticed it... It’s no wonder we always concede Possesion and can’t win headers... Duane Holmes is our strongest player! He’s about 4 foot ffs!

Ah, but he has a stupidly low centre of gravity apparently. He can therefore only be knocked over by a JCB or Pontus duckface.

18 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I am not sure they will go up as they are

I don’t think Leeds will win the league which is worrying because we played so poorly against them twice

They have other players returning from injury and will be stronger for it and based on what I've seen, they are in a different league to the rest of the division. I think they will take this league in a canter. I'm now going to brush my teeth.

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How we only lost 2-0 I don't know. We were second best all game. Leeds, I'm not happy to say, played very well. Carson should have caught the ball before the first goal. We just kept giving the ball away so needlessly in my opinion. 

Luckily I had Stella to console me throughout ?

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Disclaimer: Before posting I'd like to say that this is probably due to the fact I've only just got back, and I'm drunk and pissed off.

I thought we were absolutely dreadful. We had no cohesion, our defending was lazy and we couldn't string more than two passes together. We were lumping the ball up aimlessly for a huge part of that game. We're lucky Leeds didn't play as well as I've seen them play before because it could have and should have been more ugly than the home game. 

I think Mason Mount is the most overrated player we've ever had. He received an England call up with his off a good start, and he's been anonymous since. He's a brilliant technical footballer, but he never ever shows for the ball and he hides in big games. He isn't a central midfielder, he's a number 10. 

Tom Lawrence once again was really frustrating. He's clearly got talent in there, but when he's not playing well he is our most wasteful player. 

Jack Marriott: was he even playing? He is absolutely not to blame for the defeat, yet I can't help feeling like I want him to offer more. He was really isolated tonight, but even when he got the ball he looked a step off the pace. I was quite disappointed with his performance. 

A note on the midfield in general: they're crap. Not crap individual players, but they have a crap balance. Because of this, and I think this might be me being over the top here, but I don't see us finishing higher than upper mid table. Leeds walked through the centre of us, and when we had the ball we had no control there or no options to pass there. We are in desperate need of two need centre mids, and unless we get it I really struggle to see us reaching playoffs.

A final word on Leeds and Bielsa, I think it's an utter disgrace. Bielsa is disgusting for openly cheating, I don't care how good of a manager he is, he's a cheating see you next Tuesday and he fits Leeds perfectly in that respect. Hope we complain to the FA.

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I'm not going to grade the players tonight because I thought we were just collectively dreadful. Out battled and they played rings round us. 

Point I'd like to make is that this is the first time I'd really like to question Frank's decision making:

1. You're playing top of the table away from home and this is the game you gamble and start young Max Lowe and leave an experienced player(Malone) on the bench. 

2. Taking Andre Wisdom off wasn't a bad move but moving our best offensive player(Holmes) on the night and the last few games into a position he has never played before is just puzzling. 

3. At two nil down, you take off your top scorer when one goal could have completely changed the complex of the game in the last ten minutes. 

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1 hour ago, cstand said:

The best two posters on this forum by a million miles are B4 for his/her enthusiasm and Angie Ram for common sense,  crass comments come from judge n jury folk who slag other posters off.

Saw @B4ev6is at the end of the game tonight. He was gutted but looking forward to playing Southampton on Wednesday. He's had a hard night tonight, inexplicably pulled over by the drugs searchers, which was very unsettling, but still there supporting the team for all he was worth. 

If you don't get the honest place where B4's passion for the team comes from, you don't get football. 

I don't usually see your posts @Inglorius because I have you on ignore - comments like the one cstand quoted remind me why! 

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1 hour ago, RiddingsRam said:

Men against boys that ! Sat in a bar in Leeds deliberating the performance. Did it look as bad on the TV as it was in the flesh ? Please tell me it didn't ? (I know it did really) . 

We got totally schooled by a ducking genius of football . Envious of that Leeds performance like I was when they did us all over at PP . 

Our shape was wrong , individual performances were inept all round . Feel really deflated right now.  

All part of the learning curve for Frank et al. We are smarting but it’ll be 10x for him. And we’ll be better for it in future. 

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9 minutes ago, REDCAR said:

Smashing post, and made me feel a bit less sick about tonight’s result, thank you

Well I have just realised that we have to play the long game, and it takes out much of the anger and frustration when you understand where we are.

At this level, the teams who are successful have either made inspired appointments who have an instant galvanising effect, or they have given a manager time to develop something and reaped the rewards.

For the first category, think Bielsa at Leeds, think Nuno at Wolves. 12 months ago, Leeds were decidedly average. The same can be said for Wolves prior to Nuno’s arrival. 

For the second, think Hughton at Brighton, as a prime example of a team who grew over time.

I don’t think Frank falls into the first category, sadly. He is simply too inexperienced.

So we have to look at it as a project, where both the club and the manager can grow together. 

This is not Frank’s team. If he were a chef, we’d say he is in the kitchen trying to piece together a showstopping meal with the remains of what 4-5 other chefs left behind.

So the summer clear out presents the perfect opportunity for us to press the reset button where the squad is concerned, clear out the fridge and the pantry and Frank can get to work.

His job really truly starts in the summer, and I think when you understand that it makes everything a little easier.

 

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17 minutes ago, Fraser_23 said:

I’m no tactical genius or anything and I was at the pub so my judgement may have been dazzled but.... DUANE HOLMES AT RIGHT BACK??????? WTF. He’s our only player who can actually create chances and take players on. No idea what Frank was thinking Jesus 

Don't know you Fraser but let's just agree that you are no tactical genius and had had a few by half time when Frank made the change.

Andre was not having a good game. Too many Leeds attacks were coming down that side and he wasn't dealing with them. How much that was his fault and how much the part fault of others is more debatable.

But we were one down, Andre wasn't playing well and Frank wanted to bring Nugent on to give Marriott more support and to give their defence more to think about - it was an attacking change.  Duane Holmes had had an OK first half. He had a better second half - made some tackles, brought the ball forward, troubled some of their players, played in their half and put us (together with Nugent) more on the front foot.  Still not good enough but Frank's thought process was excellent. He took a risk - frustrated by the early second half goal - that was positive. Some of our previous managers would have stuffed another defender on and taken Duane off. Which do you prefer?

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16 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Disclaimer: Before posting I'd like to say that this is probably due to the fact I've only just got back, and I'm drunk and pissed off.

I thought we were absolutely dreadful. We had no cohesion, our defending was lazy and we couldn't string more than two passes together. We were lumping the ball up aimlessly for a huge part of that game. We're lucky Leeds didn't play as well as I've seen them play before because it could have and should have been more ugly than the home game. 

I think Mason Mount is the most overrated player we've ever had. He received an England call up with his off a good start, and he's been anonymous since. He's a brilliant technical footballer, but he never ever shows for the ball and he hides in big games. He isn't a central midfielder, he's a number 10. 

Tom Lawrence once again was really frustrating. He's clearly got talent in there, but when he's not playing well he is our most wasteful player. 

Jack Marriott: was he even playing? He is absolutely not to blame for the defeat, yet I can't help feeling like I want him to offer more. He was really isolated tonight, but even when he got the ball he looked a step off the pace. I was quite disappointed with his performance. 

A note on the midfield in general: they're crap. Not crap individual players, but they have a crap balance. Because of this, and I think this might be me being over the top here, but I don't see us finishing higher than upper mid table. Leeds walked through the centre of us, and when we had the ball we had no control there or no options to pass there. We are in desperate need of two need centre mids, and unless we get it I really struggle to see us reaching playoffs.

A final word on Leeds and Bielsa, I think it's an utter disgrace. Bielsa is disgusting for openly cheating, I don't care how good of a manager he is, he's a cheating see you next Tuesday and he fits Leeds perfectly in that respect. Hope we complain to the FA.

Was expecting sooooooooooo much worse ?Think the bulk of the form are seven sheets to the wind my man so all good and some valid points made.

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Franks biggest challenge now is to work on the balance of the team imo. I'm not knocking any individual player as even good technical players are giving the ball away a bit too easily, not just tonight but over the last few games.

Leeds played like I believe Frank wants us to play, brave in wanting the ball in tight areas, hunting in packs, busting a gut for each other and showing quality under pressure. 

The spymaster general started embedding his philosophy at Leeds last season and the players now understand and believe.....thats Frank's challenge now, work on the balance of the team and make them work like Kenny Burns at a free buffet.

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Just now, 86 points said:

Was expecting sooooooooooo much worse ?Think the bulk of the form are seven sheets to the wind my man so all good and some valid points made.

I managed to get over how annoyed I was mainly on the train back ? It's just such a frustrating performance, I don't care about the result that much, I expected we would struggle to win the game, it's just the manner of how we played. If we'd gone down fighting and were just beaten because Leeds were brilliant then whilst I wouldn't be happy, I'd find it more palatable. It just felt like we didn't have any spirit, energy or fight out there, which was the worst part of it for me. 

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10 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I managed to get over how annoyed I was mainly on the train back ? It's just such a frustrating performance, I don't care about the result that much, I expected we would struggle to win the game, it's just the manner of how we played. If we'd gone down fighting and were just beaten because Leeds were brilliant then whilst I wouldn't be happy, I'd find it more palatable. It just felt like we didn't have any spirit, energy or fight out there, which was the worst part of it for me. 

You've just said in two sentences what it took me a page and a half to convey on a separate thread. Think I need more single malt...

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17 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Don't know you Fraser but let's just agree that you are no tactical genius and had had a few by half time when Frank made the change.

Andre was not having a good game. Too many Leeds attacks were coming down that side and he wasn't dealing with them. How much that was his fault and how much the part fault of others is more debatable.

But we were one down, Andre wasn't playing well and Frank wanted to bring Nugent on to give Marriott more support and to give their defence more to think about - it was an attacking change.  Duane Holmes had had an OK first half. He had a better second half - made some tackles, brought the ball forward, troubled some of their players, played in their half and put us (together with Nugent) more on the front foot.  Still not good enough but Frank's thought process was excellent. He took a risk - frustrated by the early second half goal - that was positive. Some of our previous managers would have stuffed another defender on and taken Duane off. Which do you prefer?

I’d rather we played a player in that position such as Bryson or Evans who maybe don’t offer much attacking wise but contribute massively defensively. What I’m trying to say is... Holmes is our most creative player IMO and he showed that vs Southampton. I don’t understand the decision to put him RB? He’s small, arguably not that strong and doesn’t really have to defend often. Whereas someone such as Evans can tackle, is strong and defends regularly so can play that role well. 

I know Frank wanted to bring on Nugent and I didn’t criticise the substitution he made, just the switch in positions in the team. 

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Although on the face of it that was a horrible performance and pretty painful to watch us get schooled  by Leeds, as much as I am disappointed this is clearly not Frank's team yet and we were up against a team who are top of the league for a reason. Next season will be the true test of his credentials,  I am sort of resigned to us finishing about 8th now to be honest and I have sort of given up on any hopes of promotion unless we can bring in a  couple in the next few weeks, I am not going to go overboard on criticism like I usually do, but I would be happy if not one of the defence that started tonight started for us next season and the midfield is a shadow of what is was when we had Hughes and Thorne and Bryson at their peaks, and I think Bryson although he tries should definitely not be playing for us next season if we have serious ambitions of promotion. 

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