New Contracts

[cheron85]

6 minutes ago, rynny said:

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

[Roboram]

11 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

@BurtonRam7 as I said, it is going to be an interesting year of how they balance it. Maybe offer players a contract on less wages, no idea how we are going to do it. 

It's a sad state of affairs that we are more or less forced into renewing the contracts of under performing, overpaid players in order to comply with F.F.P.

At this rate Lamps (or any future manager for that matter) is going to be able to build what can truly be classed as his own team.

In that case, the club's hands are tied due to the reckless spending spree in the summer of 2015

[rynny]

1 minute ago, cheron85 said:

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

From what Mel was saying it isn't possible to do it anymore.

Didn't the players value be over their contract, using the £10m player example, if they signed a 4 year deal then each year their value would go down £2.5m. That's what I read on here anyway.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

Yes, but the 'drop in value' registered each season is what goes towards FFP. So if you sign a player for £10m on a 3 year deal, then drop his value by £1m a year, you'll have a £1m FFP hit after year 1 and year 2, then a massive £8m hit if released at the end of hit contract.

[rynny]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

 

2 minutes ago, Roboram said:

It's a sad state of affairs that we are more or less forced into renewing the contracts of under performing, overpaid players in order to comply with F.F.P.

At this rate Lamps (or any future manager for that matter) is going to be able to build what can truly be classed as his own team.

In that case, the club's hands are tied due to the reckless spending spree in the summer of 2015

Just thought on this, you can lose £39m over 3 seasons, maybe as we haven't had much of a net spend over the last few seasons we have had an eye on this, and are prepared to take the hit on the losses for these players? 

[Rev]

4 minutes ago, rynny said:

From what Mel was saying it isn't possible to do it anymore.

Didn't the players value be over their contract, using the £10m player example, if they signed a 4 year deal then each year their value would go down £2.5m. That's what I read on here anyway.

That used to be the way.

Now a value is assigned to each asset/player on a yearly basis, which is up to the club to set, supposedly based on the players true value, but obviously not higher than the amount originally paid, including agents fees and transfer cost.

It's probably a reason Thorne has been sidelined, not only would each game cost us £12.5k in cash payment to WBA, but would also increase the FFP losses by the same amount, should we eventually end up selling/releasing him.

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

@BurtonRam7 as I said, it is going to be an interesting year of how they balance it. Maybe offer players a contract on less wages, no idea how we are going to do it. 

It's completely fair in my opinion.

Assets to a business should be able to contribute towards turnover.

A player that is no longer a player and is not going to command a transfer fee is not an asset.

If anything you could argue such players are a liability if you are going to continue paying their wages.

[Van der MoodHoover]

17 minutes ago, Roboram said:

It's a sad state of affairs that we are more or less forced into renewing the contracts of under performing, overpaid players in order to comply with F.F.P.

At this rate Lamps (or any future manager for that matter) is going to be able to build what can truly be classed as his own team.

In that case, the club's hands are tied due to the reckless spending spree in the summer of 2015

followed by a couple of calamitous years of manager merry-go-round. In a rapidly rising transfer market, it takes some doing to make all those signings and then lose shed loads on every single one..............

Haven't we also got Blackmans residual write off to come through at seasons end (hes on a season long loan before contracts up).

I think the game here is maybe a couple of contract extensions on reduced wages for some of the duffers. Let's face it, we could play hardball to an extent with Bradley and Butters as they ain't likely to command similar wages even if they leave and they might have a few months of nil income while they're looking. Take the loss on one and tell the other one he can have another year on half pay and think himself lucky ?

[rynny]

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2018/08/re-watch-our-latest-fans-forum-in-full#t=56:18

The start of FFP at fans forum, if you want to skip to Mel on about players contracts go to 1 hour 1 min. 

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

It is a tough one to balance, we need to get rid of players but we can't let them go for free because of FFP. This year is going to be an interesting one in both transfer windows. A lot of players are playing for their future, whether that be here or at another club. We have a few players with something to prove. 

Releasing them makes no difference to FFP as their values will have already been written down each year and will be zero by the end of their contracts. If we retain them and pay out any fees in doing so, it makes FFP proportionately worse. If we sold any of them during this window, the price we get helps FFP.

[rynny]

1 minute ago, CornwallRam said:

Releasing them makes no difference to FFP as their values will have already been written down each year and will be zero by the end of their contracts. If we retain them and pay out any fees in doing so, it makes FFP proportionately worse. If we sold any of them during this window, the price we get helps FFP.

See video on the link in previous post. 

[CornwallRam]

51 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

@BurtonRam7 as I said, it is going to be an interesting year of how they balance it. Maybe offer players a contract on less wages, no idea how we are going to do it. 

That's £10m spread out over their contract, eg 5 year contract is -£2m per year.

 

We changed from amortisation to residual values a couple of years ago, but my understanding is that in both cases the value is zero at the end of the contract, but in the former  write down is linear and in the latter the club can choose the write down, but it would  be stupid to let players go into their final year with massive residual values as it gives them a massive lever for contract negotiations.

[IlsonDerby]

2 hours ago, cheron85 said:

Anyone heard any rumours on the contract situations of the guys out of contract at the end of the season?

By my reckoning it should be:

Huddlestone (option to extend for a year)

Bryson

Johnson

Butterfield (seems to be off)

Ledley

Pearce

Nugent

Olsson

Roos

Huddlestone - Would extend for an extra year. Good calming influence to have off the bench if we need to control play against a good side. 

Bryson - Would potentially offer another year, maybe making him captain of the U23s when he's not in our first team squad to help younger players. 

Would replace Johnson with Bird in the first team reckoning. 

Butterfield won't be a loss as he hasn't been in the first team squad for the best part of a season and half. 

Ledley - replaced by Evans in my opinion. 

Pearce - Would be wise to offer a contract extension in an area we lack depth but he's handled himself with such professionalism that he probably deserves to be a first team regular for someone else. 

Nugent - Great to have around the dressing room but he ain't gonna be on peanuts and his ability to score important goals is seemingly leaving him. 

Olsson - replaced by Malone.

Roos - Cheap back up. Keep unless we can bring in a better back up keeper. 

[TuffLuff]

Depending on how long Bryson wants to keep playing on for, I’d potentially sign him back up. One year and looking into becoming part of the coaching staff? Yeah that’s fine. If he thinks he wants to play 2-3 more years then he’ll be better heading somewhere he will get games, they’ll be interest in him in the champ still and most likely the spl too.

The rest, meh

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Depending on how long Bryson wants to keep playing on for, I’d potentially sign him back up. One year and looking into becoming part of the coaching staff? Yeah that’s fine. If he thinks he wants to play 2-3 more years then he’ll be better heading somewhere he will get games, they’ll be interest in him in the champ still and most likely the spl too.

The rest, meh

Bryso and Johnno on cheap deals would be good, need a bit more bite in midfield! ?

[Brammie Steve]

Keep Roos....

Carson is irreplaceable but goalies get injured/norovirus/ suspended and we don’t want to rummage through a bargain basement at unexpectedly short notice.

Colin Boulton and David Harvey, even Shilts, had to exercise patience and grab the opportunity as and when!

[G-Ram]

If players ‘book’ values are written off if they are released & it effects FFP what happens with players coming through?

For example last season bogle was no where near the first team & unheard of. His value as an assest must have been pretty low. Now he’s played the first half of the season & is a regular. Whats his value now as a sellable assist compered to this time last season? Does it even effect FFP ? 

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

If players ‘book’ values are written off if they are released & it effects FFP what happens with players coming through?

For example last season bogle was no where near the first team & unheard of. His value as an assest must have been pretty low. Now he’s played the first half of the season & is a regular. Whats his value now as a sellable assist compered to this time last season? Does it even effect FFP ? 

Youth players / free transfers remain at zero throughout their stay at the club. 

[Carnero]

Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

Youth players / free transfers remain at zero throughout their stay at the club. 

Correct, well virtually zero anyway, save for some nominal training/development costs and signing on fees etc.

The sale of Academy products is a massive help from an FFP point of view.

[RamLad1884]

9 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

If players ‘book’ values are written off if they are released & it effects FFP what happens with players coming through?

For example last season bogle was no where near the first team & unheard of. His value as an assest must have been pretty low. Now he’s played the first half of the season & is a regular. Whats his value now as a sellable assist compered to this time last season? Does it even effect FFP ? 

Academy player does not hold FFP value other than the cost of their contract from everything around. So his wage is the only FFP consideration. 'assets' i.e. Players of any value to us won't help us with FFP if/when they are sold. Player could be worth £20 million but won't be worth a penny under ffp until he is sold.