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cheron85

New Contracts

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52 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Anyone heard any rumours on the contract situations of the guys out of contract at the end of the season?

By my reckoning it should be:

Huddlestone - 1 year extension

Bryson - poss 1 year on reduced wages, still have around the squad but not a star anymore

Johnson - release, not what he was or what we need going forward

Butterfield (seems to be off) - hopefully

Ledley - release, permacrock, old

Pearce - release, only going to ever be cover

Nugent - release, the dave factor is fading

Olsson - depends on his injury recovery, honestly not as bad as folk make out

Roos - never challenged carson, so let go.

 

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4 minutes ago, rynny said:

They have a book value so when they leave we "lose" that amount. So say Johnson's value is £5m if he leaves in the summer for nothing the club have "lost" £5m in assets, and it negatively affects FFP. 

Mel explained it better than me at the forum at the Showcase back in August, if it is still up to watch. 

I thought the negative depreciation of assets would come in here? They won't have been listed as an asset of that value on every years books I don't think... So the loss would be the difference between the value on the books last year and this year?

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4 minutes ago, rynny said:

They have a book value so when they leave we "lose" that amount. So say Johnson's value is £5m if he leaves in the summer for nothing the club have "lost" £5m in assets, and it negatively affects FFP. 

Mel explained it better than me at the forum at the Showcase back in August, if it is still up to watch. 

Ah, I see what point you're making. I've heard it explained before (on the Not The Top 20 Podcast (about the Football League) I believe) but I thought it was just a different way of looking at whether player transfers are good value for money or not.

If it directly affects FFP then fair enough, although I'm still not sure about renewing Johnson's contract due to his wages.

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8 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I thought the negative depreciation of assets would come in here? They won't have been listed as an asset of that value on every years books I don't think... So the loss would be the difference between the value on the books last year and this year?

 

11 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

Ah, I see what point you're making. I've heard it explained before (on the Not The Top 20 Podcast (about the Football League) I believe) but I thought it was just a different way of looking at whether player transfers are good value for money or not.

If it directly affects FFP then fair enough, although I'm still not sure about renewing Johnson's contract due to his wages.

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

@BurtonRam7 as I said, it is going to be an interesting year of how they balance it. Maybe offer players a contract on less wages, no idea how we are going to do it. 

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6 minutes ago, rynny said:

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

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11 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

@BurtonRam7 as I said, it is going to be an interesting year of how they balance it. Maybe offer players a contract on less wages, no idea how we are going to do it. 

It's a sad state of affairs that we are more or less forced into renewing the contracts of under performing, overpaid players in order to comply with F.F.P.

At this rate Lamps (or any future manager for that matter) is going to be able to build what can truly be classed as his own team.

In that case, the club's hands are tied due to the reckless spending spree in the summer of 2015

Edited by Roboram
Insert 'in that case'

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1 minute ago, cheron85 said:

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

From what Mel was saying it isn't possible to do it anymore.

Didn't the players value be over their contract, using the £10m player example, if they signed a 4 year deal then each year their value would go down £2.5m. That's what I read on here anyway.

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4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

Yes, but the 'drop in value' registered each season is what goes towards FFP. So if you sign a player for £10m on a 3 year deal, then drop his value by £1m a year, you'll have a £1m FFP hit after year 1 and year 2, then a massive £8m hit if released at the end of hit contract.

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4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Oosh that's brutal - As I understood it you could set a players registered value at the start of each season on the books - That way you take the depreciation little by little over the course of the contract - But I'm guessing either a) that's not possible or b) we haven't done that

 

2 minutes ago, Roboram said:

It's a sad state of affairs that we are more or less forced into renewing the contracts of under performing, overpaid players in order to comply with F.F.P.

At this rate Lamps (or any future manager for that matter) is going to be able to build what can truly be classed as his own team.

In that case, the club's hands are tied due to the reckless spending spree in the summer of 2015

Just thought on this, you can lose £39m over 3 seasons, maybe as we haven't had much of a net spend over the last few seasons we have had an eye on this, and are prepared to take the hit on the losses for these players? 

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4 minutes ago, rynny said:

From what Mel was saying it isn't possible to do it anymore.

Didn't the players value be over their contract, using the £10m player example, if they signed a 4 year deal then each year their value would go down £2.5m. That's what I read on here anyway.

That used to be the way.

Now a value is assigned to each asset/player on a yearly basis, which is up to the club to set, supposedly based on the players true value, but obviously not higher than the amount originally paid, including agents fees and transfer cost.

It's probably a reason Thorne has been sidelined, not only would each game cost us £12.5k in cash payment to WBA, but would also increase the FFP losses by the same amount, should we eventually end up selling/releasing him.

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23 minutes ago, rynny said:

 

From what Mel was saying at forum the players value is registered and they are then set. He used an example of a player signing, valued at £10m, suffers an injury, never recovers properly and never rediscovers their form that made them a £10m player, leaves at the end of their contract for free, the club lose £10m towards FFP. He said how can that be fair? 

@BurtonRam7 as I said, it is going to be an interesting year of how they balance it. Maybe offer players a contract on less wages, no idea how we are going to do it. 

It's completely fair in my opinion.

Assets to a business should be able to contribute towards turnover.

A player that is no longer a player and is not going to command a transfer fee is not an asset.

If anything you could argue such players are a liability if you are going to continue paying their wages.

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17 minutes ago, Roboram said:

It's a sad state of affairs that we are more or less forced into renewing the contracts of under performing, overpaid players in order to comply with F.F.P.

At this rate Lamps (or any future manager for that matter) is going to be able to build what can truly be classed as his own team.

In that case, the club's hands are tied due to the reckless spending spree in the summer of 2015

followed by a couple of calamitous years of manager merry-go-round. In a rapidly rising transfer market, it takes some doing to make all those signings and then lose shed loads on every single one..............

Haven't we also got Blackmans residual write off to come through at seasons end (hes on a season long loan before contracts up).

I think the game here is maybe a couple of contract extensions on reduced wages for some of the duffers. Let's face it, we could play hardball to an extent with Bradley and Butters as they ain't likely to command similar wages even if they leave and they might have a few months of nil income while they're looking. Take the loss on one and tell the other one he can have another year on half pay and think himself lucky 😄

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1 hour ago, rynny said:

It is a tough one to balance, we need to get rid of players but we can't let them go for free because of FFP. This year is going to be an interesting one in both transfer windows. A lot of players are playing for their future, whether that be here or at another club. We have a few players with something to prove. 

Releasing them makes no difference to FFP as their values will have already been written down each year and will be zero by the end of their contracts. If we retain them and pay out any fees in doing so, it makes FFP proportionately worse. If we sold any of them during this window, the price we get helps FFP.

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