BathRam72 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Four league goals this season. 2 when playing on the right, 2 when playing as the striker. Except for our last game against Hull, Waghorn has performed much better on the right than on the striker I think the point is that currently we don't have striking options (Marriott out and Nuge not doing it) and Waghorn is doing a great job in Marriott's absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, Edtheram said: The last time he played upfront on his own was Millwall away in August? Waghorn is a very good striker at this level The last time he started upfront was against Rotherham in September. He has come on as sub a few times since then as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtheram Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: The last time he started upfront was against Rotherham in September. He has come on as sub a few times since then as well Im only going off what radio Derby said, cant really look too much into sub appearences IMO depends how long you get. I thought the team looked stronger with him holding the ball up and getting into the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I think this is a daft debate - Waghorn is just an excellent player - He's good on the wing because he's skillful, has vision, works hard and can make excellently timed runs into the box - He's also good up front because he's strong, driven, hard working, great team player and good reaction finishing - All of those qualities make him excellent in both positions - As long as he's on the pitch I'm happy However My pet peeve at the moment is the lack of width we have - Left footers on the right and right footers on the left - Obviously the way Lampard wants to play with 'wingers' cutting inside rather than outside - But against Hull (and in many other games) it just means we've got too many players trying to take up the exact same positions on the edge of the box and the fullbacks get exposed 1 vs 2 coming forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TibshelfRam Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: I think this is a daft debate - Waghorn is just an excellent player - He's good on the wing because he's skillful, has vision, works hard and can make excellently timed runs into the box - He's also good up front because he's strong, driven, hard working, great team player and good reaction finishing - All of those qualities make him excellent in both positions - As long as he's on the pitch I'm happy However My pet peeve at the moment is the lack of width we have - Left footers on the right and right footers on the left - Obviously the way Lampard wants to play with 'wingers' cutting inside rather than outside - But against Hull (and in many other games) it just means we've got too many players trying to take up the exact same positions on the edge of the box and the fullbacks get exposed 1 vs 2 coming forward I'm not one for suggesting sudden changes in system etc. but there is an element to which I agree with this. I like the inverted wingers as I think it probably gives us a greater goal threat from those wide players. However, I do feel that it is stifling Marriott a bit. I love Marriott, I think he's genuinely a quality attacker and, from what I've seen, the best instinct finisher we've had at the club for some time. Give him a chance and he'll likely take it. But he's not a backs to goal striker a la Martin or Waghorn that others can feed off. To try to get him to play as such diminishes his ability and also that of those around him because he doesn't 'link' the play well enough. Imagine Marriott with balls fizzing across from wide with our wingers getting to the byline and cutting them in - I think he'd be lethal. I'm not saying we ditch the current system, far from it. But I do think it wouldn't hurt us to mix things up. As a side, we looked so dangerous when our wingers (Russell/Ward, Ward/Ince, Ince/Russell or Ibe etc) used to switch. It made us less predictable and encouraged our wingers to get to the byline and get balls in when they'd switched. That being said, I'm not sure we have the wingers to play that way, with the possible exception of Jozefzoon, I think most of them like to come inside (Lawrence, Wilson, Holmes, Waghorn). Just a mere observation, for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, TibshelfRam said: I'm not one for suggesting sudden changes in system etc. but there is an element to which I agree with this. I like the inverted wingers as I think it probably gives us a greater goal threat from those wide players. However, I do feel that it is stifling Marriott a bit. I love Marriott, I think he's genuinely a quality attacker and, from what I've seen, the best instinct finisher we've had at the club for some time. Give him a chance and he'll likely take it. But he's not a backs to goal striker a la Martin or Waghorn that others can feed off. To try to get him to play as such diminishes his ability and also that of those around him because he doesn't 'link' the play well enough. Imagine Marriott with balls fizzing across from wide with our wingers getting to the byline and cutting them in - I think he'd be lethal. I'm not saying we ditch the current system, far from it. But I do think it wouldn't hurt us to mix things up. As a side, we looked so dangerous when our wingers (Russell/Ward, Ward/Ince, Ince/Russell or Ibe etc) used to switch. It made us less predictable and encouraged our wingers to get to the byline and get balls in when they'd switched. That being said, I'm not sure we have the wingers to play that way, with the possible exception of Jozefzoon, I think most of them like to come inside (Lawrence, Wilson, Holmes, Waghorn). Just a mere observation, for what its worth. I think the fullbacks are the ones meant to be providing the extra width and get to the bye-line and provide the crosses/pull-backs. They just don't do enough of it but look what happens when they do - strikers score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TibshelfRam Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 17 hours ago, angieram said: I think the fullbacks are the ones meant to be providing the extra width and get to the bye-line and provide the crosses/pull-backs. They just don't do enough of it but look what happens when they do - strikers score! I don't dispute that, I think that's definitely the plan. I just think that if we were to mix up our wingers and interchanging the side that they play on throughout the duration of the game, it might help us be a little less predictable. Only my own, very limited, tactical view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Ennui Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 To me, Jozefzoon has looked way more potent when playing on the right. He has less goal threat but he looks more confident and able to beat his fullback with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erathirea Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 The Winger Conundrum? Hmmm GETWHINER? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 02/01/2019 at 20:01, reveldevil said: My favourite is when someone makes a reply, and hints at the very high level they've played/coached the game at, as if that makes a different opinion somehow less valid! We haven't had one of those for quite a while though, which is a pity. There was one guy a few years ago who claimed to be some sort of 'footballing troubleshooter' who should be employed by us. He'd have advised we go with a some weird man to man marking system. A couple of years later Cardiff get promoted with this system. I think Warnock's stated before that he'd go on forums to gauge opinion... and we know he was interviewed post Wassall... and there was a candidate who rang up Mel after we sacked Pearson stating that "I could have told you a midfield two doesn't work with small players", which is the most Warnock thing I've ever heard, plus he played Bryson in a three. You never know ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Rodgers' Liverpool had Suarez and Sturridge interchanging between CF and RW. Maybe we could do this with Jack and Waggy. Waggy comes inside when playing on the right anyway but then we lose width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I mentioned this on Twitter the other day, but Wilson, Marriott & Waghorn offer perfect balance for me. This is purely just a couple of examples, so bear with me: In theory: SC JB RK FT SM TH DH AK MW JM HW In attack: SC JB RK FT SM TH AK DH HW MW JM Obviously it's not always as clean cut as this, but this system in particular offers versatility within and while Waghorn isn't seen on paper as a striker, it can create confusion in opposition teams. Holmes can offer the width on the right moving from the middle of the pitch and allowing Waghorn to get closer to Marriott. It works in a number of different ways, especially as we have attacking full backs. The emphasis being on allowing Waghorn to drift inside closer to Marriott, potentially dragging the full back inwards and allowing space on that right hand side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 22 hours ago, TibshelfRam said: I'm not saying we ditch the current system, far from it. But I do think it wouldn't hurt us to mix things up. As a side, we looked so dangerous when our wingers (Russell/Ward, Ward/Ince, Ince/Russell or Ibe etc) used to switch. It made us less predictable and encouraged our wingers to get to the byline and get balls in when they'd switched. Agreed - I actually like that we have a 'system' in place - It's important that players understand the requirements of them in a certain position so that we can rotate the squad - But would like to see them swap over a bit more than they do - 5-10 minutes per half of going outside rather than inside will mess with defenders heads I also used to love the 'pairings' we had under Nigel back in the day - Coutts/Brayford looked better as a unit than either of them did separately and I think we're still missing that element of teamwork at certain times - We look like a talented group of individuals rather than a cohesive unit like Norwich or Leeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 hours ago, TibshelfRam said: I don't dispute that, I think that's definitely the plan. I just think that if we were to mix up our wingers and interchanging the side that they play on throughout the duration of the game, it might help us be a little less predictable. Only my own, very limited, tactical view. Nah, they'd just fall over the full-backs! ? Actually, I agree, I love a good old-fashioned winger . I was brought up on Leighton James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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