Boycie Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Just now, David said: Sorry sorry, let me rephrase that. Sooo you’re telling me that Derby are not the only club that’s cursed with players having slumps in form which result in points dropped but that’s not the point, the performances are the point and it’s a curse that performances slump during the festive period ? I think you’re talking about the other fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Just now, Boycie said: I think you’re talking about the other fella Even my other fella can see with one blind eye you’re talking nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, David said: Even my other fella can see with one blind eye you’re talking nonsense. What’s new. Ha ha. Bless him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 In the recent games, we have played well at times but then seem to stop working when under pressure. The midfield goes missing and we suddenly remember how fragile our defence is. Just need a couple to shore up the flair players. However, we also need the flair players to roll up their sleeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, David said: Wait a minute, so you’re telling me it’s not just Derby that lose football games? ? It's not the losing, it's the manner of the losing. Aspects of the performance have deteriorated, not just in one game, but over a run of games. I don't think that can just be explained by the injuries, because we no longer seem to be playing with the same intent. You could say it's the curse, or you could glibly dismiss it; or you could try saying what you think is happening. I'm not saying I've got an explanation, but I'm not going to pretend I don't notice a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Fulham made decent signings in the January, Mitrovic the stand out. We will need to do the same if we want to reignite our form solid CB,LB and box to box midfielder required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, Lambchop said: It's not the losing, it's the manner of the losing. Aspects of the performance have deteriorated, not just in one game, but over a run of games. I don't think that can just be explained by the injuries, because we no longer seem to be playing with the same intent. You could say it's the curse, or you could glibly dismiss it; or you could try saying what you think is happening. I'm not saying I've got an explanation, but I'm not going to pretend I don't notice a change. And I guess all the other teams in and around the top 6 have been playing others off the field and simply unlucky not to have picked up more points? It’s just Derby County that are playing poorly and we somehow fluked our way to 5th but cursed to not continue our undeserved form. I’ve not seen anyone claim we’ve been great in every game, we haven’t, but nor have we been bad enough to warrant the dramatics when we lose a game, a game against a very good team which deserve some credit. Always one extreme to the other with us, one week we’re the best thing since sliced bread, bring on Leeds, the next the whole team is terrible and shouldn’t even be footballers. And dismiss injuries if you like, but having 4 left backs all out injured is going to have an effect, it’s easy to sit online and stick players names into a new formation of 3 at the back, but if they haven’t trained for it, it’s suicidle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 13 hours ago, Boycie said: Our annual slump in form, I’m wondering if we are suffering a drop in performances now but will suddenly click into form in Jan like Fulham did and power into a strong finish. It will certainly make a welcome change. Lets hope so, I’ve talked mesen into it actually happening and feel a bit better now after our defeat to Sheffield United. dustrecon? Keep the faith @Boycie keep the faith, I have never thought we would be the finished article this season Lamps will need more time, I like the way we are going and I think our future is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, David said: It’s just Derby County that are playing poorly I think you're missing the point there, I'm not comparing us to anyone except ourselves. Yes I realise inconsistency is not unique to us at this level, I'm just interested in why certain aspects of the performance or intent seem to have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 I just think we're a little scared to move the ball quicker at the moment. We need to trust our instincts more and trust each other as a team. All aspects of our game, the quick passing, the heavy pressing, playing out from the back. It's all confidence dependent. I will agree with Frank and say it doesn't help when fans get on people's back for misplacing a pass. But the players themselves also need to build that passing confidence again. We know what we want to do better than that opposition and we've got the flair and talent to make it happen. So if we quicken up our moves again I think we'll start to get more convincing results. No panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Lambchop said: I think you're missing the point there, I'm not comparing us to anyone except ourselves. Yes I realise inconsistency is not unique to us at this level, I'm just interested in why certain aspects of the performance or intent seem to have changed. Appears I’m missing a lot of points then, if that’s just me I will apologise. I think we should compare ourselves to others, maybe we might realise our demands are a little excessive at times and allowances should be made for off days and mistakes because like it or not they will happen, at every club. Take the defence which is being tore apart right now, only 4 teams have conceded less goals than us this season, 2 of which are outside the top 6. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. Our defence which has seen 2 left backs at the club injured this season, Malone a couple of times now, we have a right back in his first season as a professional, a 20 year old centre back that has around 40 games to his name and Keogh, a player that gets lambasted every week. Yes they have made mistakes, Carson our experienced keeper also as he is part of this defence, but the fact still remains only 4 teams in this league have conceded less goals, you wouldn’t believe that if you came on and read the opinions of our fans right now. Maybe taking a look at others defences would be a worthwhile exercise do you not think? Back in May many were prepared to write this season off as a rebuild job, one to reduce the age of the team, we’re doing that but it’s going to take time to polish, but a severe lack of patience is already creeping back in 6 months into Lampard’s time at the club. And this is completely derailing @Boycies topic which I will apologise for, I was only here to rubbish this idea of a “curse” which is quite frankly ridiculous, right up there with the lucky pants superstitions, which helped with nothing yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, David said: Maybe taking a look at others defences would be a worthwhile exercise do you not think? Ok, take top of the table. They have an inexperienced 22 yr old keeper who has been at fault for goals in both of the last two wins. They are playing a no 10 at CB and have a full back out injured. They also have Pontus Jansson, who is what Keogh would be like if he was a yeti. I think their entire bench was under 23s yesterday. It's the sum of its parts. Leeds as a whole are organised to attack and defend as a team, and to move positions to create space and drive forwards. They are consistently retaining something like 70+% possession, which gives the opposition very little opportunity to attack. That is down to the coaching, a consistent style and a deliberately fostered team spirit. That is where I think we are lacking, rather than in the particular qualities of individuals. They have a clear engagement and belief in what they are being asked to do. If you haven't already, watch the last five minutes of their game yesterday, and then imagine that being us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lambchop said: It's the sum of its parts. Leeds as a whole are organised to attack and defend as a team, and to move positions to create space and drive forwards. They are consistently retaining something like 70+% possession, which gives the opposition very little opportunity to attack. That is down to the coaching, a consistent style and a deliberately fostered team spirit. That is where I think we are lacking, rather than in the particular qualities of individuals. They have a clear engagement and belief in what they are being asked to do. If you haven't already, watch the last five minutes of their game yesterday, and then imagine that being us. Below is the possession table over the season. Leeds top with 59.4% average Derby 3rd with 55.3% If Derby are “lacking” then I feel for the other 21 clubs below us that have seen less of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 A 'curse' is just a figure of speech but if we are allowed to use results as a rough guide to 'performances' then.... sept 2018 - 7 points from 5 = 1.4 pts per game oct 2018 - 9 points from 5 = 1.8 pts per game nov 2018 - 6 points from 4 = 1.5 pts per game Dec 2018 - 8 points from 5 = 1.6 pts per game average = 1.58 pts per game October was a better month. Maybe the cup games gave a lift. Maybe we had more players available, but the points return wasn't spectacularly better. Compare to last season....growett sept 2017 - 6 points from 5 = 1.2 points per game oct 2017 - 12 points from 4 = 3 pts per game nov 2017 - 7 points from 5 = 1.4 pts per game dec 2017 - 16 points from 6 = 2.66 pts per game average = 2.05 pts per game and the season before......mac2 Sept 2016 - 4 points from 5 = 0.8 pts per game oct 2016 - 8 points from 5 = 1.6 pts per game nov 2016 - 9 points from 3 = 3 pts per game dec 2016 - 14 points from 6 = 2.33 pts per game average = 1.84 pts per game And PC.... sept 2015 - 10 points from 4 = 2.5 pts per game oct 2015 - 13 points from 5 = 2.6 pts per game nov 2015 - 9 points from 4 = 2.25 pts per game dec 2015 - 12 points from 6 = 2 pts per game average = 2.3 pts per game looking at that it seems incredible that PC got the sack shortly later, unless i've ballsed the numbers up that result quite surprises me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, David said: If Derby are “lacking” then I feel for the other 21 clubs below us that have seen less of the ball. Which ignores the essential point I was making about the team playing with conviction, as a whole, to a particular philosophy. We seemed to have that early on with Frank. His style was clearly apparent, and you could see the team taking shape around it. That is what seems to have gone missing. You can blame the absence or performances of particular players if you like, but you asked for a comparison with another team, so I pointed out that Bielsa is making his method work no matter who he has to throw on. Maybe Frank feels that he is having to compromise to adapt to the circumstances, but it isn't working and he is clearly frustrated. I'm suggesting that maybe he needs to return to his original vision and ensure that the whole squad are drilled in carrying it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Which ignores the essential point I was making about the team playing with conviction, as a whole, to a particular philosophy. We seemed to have that early on with Frank. His style was clearly apparent, and you could see the team taking shape around it. That is what seems to have gone missing. You can blame the absence or performances of particular players if you like, but you asked for a comparison with another team, so I pointed out that Bielsa is making his method work no matter who he has to throw on. Maybe Frank feels that he is having to compromise to adapt to the circumstances, but it isn't working and he is clearly frustrated. I'm suggesting that maybe he needs to return to his original vision and ensure that the whole squad are drilled in carrying it out. Your point gets lost when you talk about Leeds consistently having 70+% possession which is simply not true. Your very next line goes on to say: ”That is down to the coaching, a consistent style and a deliberately fostered team spirit. That is where I think we are lacking, rather than in the particular qualities of individuals.” If you just want to talk about style and a more consistent philosophy, I haven’t seen Leeds play week in week out to argue for or against that, I saw them against Villa on Sunday and they looked every bit as good as they did against us at Pride Park earlier in the season but I’m sure they’ve had bad games as we have. Finally you said “If you haven't already, watch the last five minutes of their game yesterday, and then imagine that being us. “ I’ve seen Derby destory teams for longer than 5 minutes ourselves this season so no need to imagine it, first half v Boro was some of the best football we’ve played for a long time, West Brom away smashing them 4-1, Leeds went to West Brom and got smashed 4-1, Old Trafford and even Stamford Bridge we looked a very very good team earning plaudits all over. Even yesterday for half hour we controlled the game and a stat popped up showing we had 79% possession. Derby are not a bad team, take a look at the view from the outside thread, many clubs fans have been impressed by us and @RamNuts post above with numbers would suggest no slump has taken place, in fact we’ve been pretty consistent. Just need to step it up a bit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, David said: Your point gets lost when you talk about Leeds consistently having 70+% possession which is simply not true. Your very next line goes on to say: ”That is down to the coaching, a consistent style and a deliberately fostered team spirit. That is where I think we are lacking, rather than in the particular qualities of individuals.” You're splitting hairs over the possession stat when your own quote above shows that the point I was making was about playing as a team to a consistent style. Yes, Derby have done it in patches, but aren't doing it now. The reason I suggested watching the end of the Blackburn game wasn't simply to see a team scoring goals, but to witness the conviction and belief in a winning mentality, to fight back and win after going a goal down in injury time. I don't think we have that level of fight, and it's a factor in why we're going missing for large chunks of a game, and getting rolled over by teams like Sheff U. I think Bielsa is an interesting manager, and I'm sure there are things to be learned when we have the opportunity to see him coaching a rival team. http://trainingground.guru/articles/marcelo-bielsa-tactics-and-philosophy-of-a-cult-manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Turned out nice again. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lambchop said: You're splitting hairs over the possession stat when your own quote above shows that the point I was making was about playing as a team to a consistent style. Yes, Derby have done it in patches, but aren't doing it now. How’s it splitting hairs? If you want to discuss something you can’t just stick fake stats out there and expect them to be ignored when they’ve been proven factually incorrect as it’s missing your “point”. 98% of people agree with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, David said: If you want to discuss something you can’t just stick fake stats out there and expect them to be ignored when they’ve been proven factually incorrect as it’s missing your “point”. You've avoided responding to my "point" over several posts now. If I want to discuss something, I clearly need to do it elsewhere. As per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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