Would the real Derby County please stand up

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I thought @G STAR RAM was trying to establish a dialogue based on a sense of how we thought we were playing and where we were going.  Your response smacks of points over performances and back to the Rowett days.  Do you think our performances are dropping off?

At least someone managed to interpret my post ? well kind of!

Even I don't need anyone to tell me how many points we have or where we are in the league.

I'm actually wanting to find out what people think our style of play/tactics are.

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I keep seeing posts about 'the right balance' in midfield and not sure where it is coming from.

What are we missing?

Our best performances have been with Mount/Wilson/Huddlestone in the middle, how does this fit in with people's perception of 'the right balance'?

great going forward as long as we convert possession to goals, somewhat weaker when defending but I suppose that is always the payoff.  Marriott has been a big asset sniffing out minor opportunities. the impression I get is that we are susceptible on the wings and the opposition often target that as a weak area, not always easy to see the whole picture from the TV screen though

[BramcoteRam84]

8 hours ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Agree with the rest but don't you think that's a bit of a myth Bramcote? What kind of constraint is spending 10+ million at this level?!  Half the league would love to have that kind of constraint.

If we'd have stopped at Zoon, Marriott and the Wilson/Mount loans I wouldn't be far off agreeing. The fact we then splashed another 8 mill on two players we didn't really need negates that shout for me. Throw in Evans, Tomori and Holmes... I don't think Lampard's landed a bad first gig in all honesty. 

All funded by selling players.  People are expressing concern at the fact three of our best players this season are loans, we’ve used the loan system very well and we’ve had to, it’s the only way we can be competitive. He’s gone down the youth route and looked and utilised the likes of Bennett who lets face it most of us thought was finished here and finished at this level. He’s had to as he doesn’t have loads of funds to go and buy players to fit the way he wants to play.

We can’t do what Stoke, Forest have done. Even sheff Utd have net spent more in transfers than us. We have a high wage bill but I would bet it’s reduced from last season and it’s taken up with some average players on high wages he inherited which limits his room to manoeuvre. So, not budget constraints like Nigel or even Mac 1 had to work within but budget constraints nonetheless in comparison to our rivals.  Forest will go again in January, Leeds have got more muscle to flex as well and possibly even Stoke and Boro. 

You could argue the managers doing the best jobs so far this season are Bielsa, Farke, Wilder and Lampard because no one would’ve expected these to be top 6 based on the budgets they’re working with, especially Farke. Leeds Norwich Sheff U and Derby are definitely the underdogs.

Thats why we shouldn’t expect promotion. It will be interesting to see how January goes but Frank has already said his business has got to be right because he hasn’t got much to play with.

 

[King Kevin]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Thing is it's pointless being a work in progress when the 'big' players aren't ours. We have to do it this season or it's starting from the beginning next season...

Fair point but I still believe loans are the way out of the Championship albeit with they are "not ours "hanging over us .

Having said that if we owned Wilson and Mount this forum would be in meltdown with the Jan window approaching .Tomori is buyable IMO.

[BathRam72]

When FL got appointed I think the expectation on the new managers shoulders was very high from a lot of fans. Mostly based on his reputation as a player and his attitude towards the game/training etc. However he was unproven as a manager.

Fast fwd to December. We are where we usually are in Dec (Last few seasons), somewhere in and around the play-offs.

For me, something is different this year though, especially compared to last year.

Yes some of the performances are much better, but for me we seem to have a better resilience about us (grinding out wins when not playing well, coming from behind to scrape points). Couple that with much younger legs that hopefully will not fade after the festive season, also bring in a couple of new and dynamic players to bolster.

To me the future looks bright ( I am an optimist at heart).

[G STAR RAM]

38 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

All funded by selling players.  People are expressing concern at the fact three of our best players this season are loans, we’ve used the loan system very well and we’ve had to, it’s the only way we can be competitive. He’s gone down the youth route and looked and utilised the likes of Bennett who lets face it most of us thought was finished here and finished at this level. He’s had to as he doesn’t have loads of funds to go and buy players to fit the way he wants to play.

We can’t do what Stoke, Forest have done. Even sheff Utd have net spent more in transfers than us. We have a high wage bill but I would bet it’s reduced from last season and it’s taken up with some average players on high wages he inherited which limits his room to manoeuvre. So, not budget constraints like Nigel or even Mac 1 had to work within but budget constraints nonetheless in comparison to our rivals.  Forest will go again in January, Leeds have got more muscle to flex as well and possibly even Stoke and Boro. 

Not buying that at all.

Net spend is irrelevant, what you spend on your players is the value of your squad and ours must be one of the most expensive.

You say about him having to play Bennett but ignore the fact that he spent large (ish) funds on Flo Jo and Waghorn but hasn't really given either a sustained run in the team.

Can only really agree with the fact he has inherited a ridiculous wage bill, with large parts of that taken up by players who don't even get in the matchday squad.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said:

I think the point is he's had 15 mill to play with and a endless wage bill, whether it's been generated by sales or not doesn't matter - it's a luxury not a constraint which goes back to the original post I quoted.

8th highest budget generated by sales, 11th highest net spend

[BramcoteRam84]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not buying that at all.

Net spend is irrelevant, what you spend on your players is the value of your squad and ours must be one of the most expensive.

You say about him having to play Bennett but ignore the fact that he spent large (ish) funds on Flo Jo and Waghorn but hasn't really given either a sustained run in the team.

Can only really agree with the fact he has inherited a ridiculous wage bill, with large parts of that taken up by players who don't even get in the matchday squad.

Your last paragraph is the main point I’m trying to make and we can’t underestimate the challenge of inheriting that and changing the way we play completely when your budget is largely tied up by these players. Next season he should be able to do more when some of these players have gone. I didn’t expect us to be challenging this quickly.

as for flo jo - too early to judge but £2.75m is hardly big money these days.

Waghorn - again too early to judge especially as he’s been hampered by injuries since he arrived.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

great going forward as long as we convert possession to goals, somewhat weaker when defending but I suppose that is always the payoff.  Marriott has been a big asset sniffing out minor opportunities. the impression I get is that we are susceptible on the wings and the opposition often target that as a weak area, not always easy to see the whole picture from the TV screen though

I know we are talking about style as such but its relevant to consider that our attacking style has us as 10th best in terms of goals scored. Defending wise we are 4th best considering goals conceded.. 

[Day]

Can’t get Eminem out my head whilst reading this thread, making it hard to concentrate. Just me?

[Spanish]

15 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I know we are talking about style as such but its relevant to consider that our attacking style has us as 10th best in terms of goals scored. Defending wise we are 4th best considering goals conceded.. 

would 10th and 4th get us in the top 6 of the actual league?  Do you get the sense that we are a defensive team relying on occasional breakaways because I don't.  The stats don't match up to my view where I see us as a vibrant attack and a, at time, desperate defense.  Maybe I'm wrong

[Mr Tibbs]

42 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

8th highest budget generated by sales, 11th highest net spend

 

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

All funded by selling players.  People are expressing concern at the fact three of our best players this season are loans, we’ve used the loan system very well and we’ve had to, it’s the only way we can be competitive. He’s gone down the youth route and looked and utilised the likes of Bennett who lets face it most of us thought was finished here and finished at this level. He’s had to as he doesn’t have loads of funds to go and buy players to fit the way he wants to play.

We can’t do what Stoke, Forest have done. Even sheff Utd have net spent more in transfers than us. We have a high wage bill but I would bet it’s reduced from last season and it’s taken up with some average players on high wages he inherited which limits his room to manoeuvre. So, not budget constraints like Nigel or even Mac 1 had to work within but budget constraints nonetheless in comparison to our rivals.  Forest will go again in January, Leeds have got more muscle to flex as well and possibly even Stoke and Boro. 

You could argue the managers doing the best jobs so far this season are Bielsa, Farke, Wilder and Lampard because no one would’ve expected these to be top 6 based on the budgets they’re working with, especially Farke. Leeds Norwich Sheff U and Derby are definitely the underdogs.

Thats why we shouldn’t expect promotion. It will be interesting to see how January goes but Frank has already said his business has got to be right because he hasn’t got much to play with.

 

I understand the angle you're getting at but I'm not on board with it.

3rd for expenditure in the league. 15 million pounds re-invested. Probably 2 of the top 3 loan players available for this division. Forest and Stoke are where we were a few years back throwing daft money at it so we're not on that level but we're not doing too badly, there's about 20 clubs that haven't got the luxury Frank has had. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

7 minutes ago, Spanish said:

would 10th and 4th get us in the top 6 of the actual league?  Do you get the sense that we are a defensive team relying on occasional breakaways because I don't.  The stats don't match up to my view where I see us as a vibrant attack and a, at time, desperate defense.  Maybe I'm wrong

No, I'm not disagreeing with you. Its just that it seems lately we haven't been scoring often enough hence we are 4th in the table and not higher. Early in the season we were scoring at the right times, that now seems to have diminished a bit. My point is that although we have an attractive forward style of play we are not now scoring enough goals...……..and its costing us.

[Premier ram]

3 hours ago, Spanish said:

I thought @G STAR RAM was trying to establish a dialogue based on a sense of how we thought we were playing and where we were going.  Your response smacks of points over performances and back to the Rowett days.  Do you think our performances are dropping off?

i dont think theres one team in the championship marrying points and  performances together at the moment , we know we are capable of doing this but at the moment we are showing a different side to us , digging in and winning ugly , which all teams in this league do at some stage , no way are we back to Rowetts way of thinking

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said:

 

I understand the angle you're getting at but I'm not on board with it.

3rd for expenditure in the league. 15 million pounds re-invested. Probably 2 of the top 3 loan players available for this division. Forest and Stoke are where we were a few years back throwing daft money at it so we're not on that level but we're not doing too badly, there's about 20 clubs that haven't got the luxury Frank has had. 

Stoke, Forest and Boro have all spent much more on incoming players than us. We spent marginally more than West Brom, Leeds and Bristol.

Forest, Stoke, Reading, Leeds, Birmingham, Hull and Wigan all had a larger net spend than us. We were almost on par (but still behind) the likes of Bolton, Blackburn and Rotherham.

[Turnstile]

For me it's a mirror image of Macs 1st season.Attack ,attack,attack but when it dosen't come off we have no plan B. We are not physical enough and get bullied too often. The football is brilliant to watch but unless we learn to defend much better we won't be going up.Mount and Wilson in midfield for me plus a quicker younger one.the older guys are past it.lampard seems naieve to me in expecting protection from referees.There's no chance of that. We are doing well but I just have the feeling other teams have worked us out.

[Angry Ram]

16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Before I start, just want to make clear this is not a critical thread, or a knee jerk reaction to last night  (think a draw was a reasonable result) just looking for people's views!

Just wondered what sort of team people think we are and what sort of team we want to be?

Do we have a true identity yet? 

I've seen a few posts from red dogs saying they expected more from us and am wondering where that expectation came from. Have 3 or 4 good televised matches made us look much better than we are to outsiders?

Halfway through the season and I'd say we have had 5 or 6 very good performances, and probably about the same number of average and poor performances.

Our performances haven't been consistent, neither have the tactics nor personnel. 

Players can go from starting one week to not being in the squad the next. Does Lampard not know his best team or are we a 'horses for courses' team?

 

 

Do we have a true identity yet? No, not yet. I think we have a vision but maybe not the right pieces to make that happen yet. 

 

I've seen a few posts from red dogs saying they expected more from us and am wondering where that expectation came from. Have 3 or 4 good televised matches made us look much better than we are to outsiders? I would agree. The Man U and Chelsea games have probably created a false reality. 

 

Halfway through the season and I'd say we have had 5 or 6 very good performances, and probably about the same number of average and poor performances. Agreed and probably expected.

 

Our performances haven't been consistent, neither have the tactics nor personnel. Goes back to point 1, we don't really have the personnel to deliver what he is striving for. This means that tactics change to a degree to suit the playing staff we have. He has made some bad calls on tactics but that is mainly based on hindsight and that is not fair. He is still finding his feet and maybe trying to be too clever. 

Players can go from starting one week to not being in the squad the next. Does Lampard not know his best team or are we a 'horses for courses' team? See above. 

 

I tend to stay out of these debates now and don't comment too much on match day threads. Last season was worse, we were either saints or sinners and all based on the last 90 mins. This season some of us have got carried away with a few good performances and a few good segments in games. We are a focus for the media and Frank is their darling, so we are mainly fed positive stuff. 

For me personally, the for 20/30 mins against Boro is what he is trying to achieve footballing wise. I loved that more than anything else this season. Looking at where we are, I think we are slight over achieving. Still some major flaws in the squad but Rome was not built in a day.

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Do we have a true identity yet? No, not yet. I think we have a vision but maybe not the right pieces to make that happen yet. 

 

I've seen a few posts from red dogs saying they expected more from us and am wondering where that expectation came from. Have 3 or 4 good televised matches made us look much better than we are to outsiders? I would agree. The Man U and Chelsea games have probably created a false reality. 

 

Halfway through the season and I'd say we have had 5 or 6 very good performances, and probably about the same number of average and poor performances. Agreed and probably expected.

 

Our performances haven't been consistent, neither have the tactics nor personnel. Goes back to point 1, we don't really have the personnel to deliver what he is striving for. This means that tactics change to a degree to suit the playing staff we have. He has made some bad calls on tactics but that is mainly based on hindsight and that is not fair. He is still finding his feet and maybe trying to be too clever. 

Players can go from starting one week to not being in the squad the next. Does Lampard not know his best team or are we a 'horses for courses' team? See above. 

 

I tend to stay out of these debates now and don't comment too much on match day threads. Last season was worse, we were either saints or sinners and all based on the last 90 mins. This season some of us have got carried away with a few good performances and a few good segments in games. We are a focus for the media and Frank is their darling, so we are mainly fed positive stuff. 

For me personally, the for 20/30 mins against Boro is what he is trying to achieve footballing wise. I loved that more than anything else this season. Looking at where we are, I think we are slight over achieving. Still some major flaws in the squad but Rome was not built in a day.

Great response and one which actually answered the questions asked!

Think you see things pretty much the same as I do.

Only point I would make is that the Boro game involved high press early in the game but that is not something we are seeing on a regular basis and I'm left wondering why?

[Angry Ram]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Great response and one which actually answered the questions asked!

Think you see things pretty much the same as I do.

Only point I would make is that the Boro game involved high press early in the game but that is not something we are seeing on a regular basis and I'm left wondering why?

Thanks.. We are normally pretty much on the same wavelength.

The high press sees us at our most effective. We tailed off in that game, maybe Lampard feels it's too much to do that from the off. Not so easy to impliment once a game has started. 

[Mr Tibbs]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Stoke, Forest and Boro have all spent much more on incoming players than us. We spent marginally more than West Brom, Leeds and Bristol.

Forest, Stoke, Reading, Leeds, Birmingham, Hull and Wigan all had a larger net spend than us. We were almost on par (but still behind) the likes of Bolton, Blackburn and Rotherham.

Doesn't really matter which way we keep dressing it up does it. 15 mill re-invested. Constraint/luxury? We all have our views.