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Racism.


Coneheadjohn

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According to the man arrested, a child next to him had the banana, and dropped the skin on the floor after eating it.

The Greek Cypriot middle aged gentleman was cleared of any racist intent by the police who arrested him shortly afterwards.

Although the police did confiscate the pair of coconuts he'd took to throw at Mesut Ozil.

 

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1 hour ago, reveldevil said:

According to the man arrested, a child next to him had the banana, and dropped the skin on the floor after eating it.

The Greek Cypriot middle aged gentleman was cleared of any racist intent by the police who arrested him shortly afterwards.

Although the police did confiscate the pair of coconuts he'd took to throw at Mesut Ozil.

 

Thanks for the update, reveldevil.

I've managed to find a link, pretty much confirming your post.  However, if I'm reading it right, despite him vowing to plead guilty in court for throwing a missile, and despite the police dropping any racist related charges... which has prompted the FA to withdraw any plans for an investigation ("Probe")... it appears that of the three people named and charged as missile throwers,  and one other charged with a public order offence, this statement appears to single out only the banana skin thrower?  

"A Spurs spokesman said: "Behaviour such as this is completely unacceptable and the supporter in question will be issued with a ban."

That may be just poor reporting though, and maybe the others will have also received a lifetime ban?  Can't be sure!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/spurs-fan-who-threw-banana-onto-pitch-im-not-a-racist-a4007451.html

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Dimmu said:

I challenge all of you to take for example this one (there are other good ones too):

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/

When it comes to gender and racial equality, most people know what their opinions are. But what about unconscious attitudes and associations? Would you be surprised to learn, for example, that you unconsciously favor one gender or racial group over another?

I quite like Chinese and indian

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On 03/12/2018 at 07:00, coneheadjohn said:

This stuff makes me sad,it’s almost like we’re making no progress.

Really?

If this is the case, you either don't know how bad things used to be or you pay no attention to what happens in football grounds.

I can honestly say I cannot remember any incidents of racism that I have witnessed inside a football ground for years and years  (although this obviously doesn't mean it doesn't happen).

We have the 'Kick It Out' campaign where players must wear t-shirts promoting anti racism, we have players wearing rainbow laces (I know this is not race related) and we even have various parties banging the drum for people who are not white to be given interviews for positions they are probably not really fit to do (not based on colour).

I'm genuinely shocked if you think an isolated incident, where there is no evidence of racism, is an indicator that there has been no progress on prejudice inside football.

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7 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

No, I think the guy knew what he was doing. I can't think anyone who throws a banana skin at a black player doesn't. 

I can't speak for others but i think I made it clear early on I think he should be banned for life, if he somehow manages to persuade legal people it wasn't racist then he should still be banned for life AND put on a course.

The rest of my views are general and not specific to this incident.

Racism is a disease and a blight on society.

It is yes.

The authorities are apparently happy it wasn’t racially motivated,  yet a punishment has to be given to send out a message that racist acts, intended or not wont be tolerated.

A lifetime ban i feel is to severe, surely as i have said before people should be given the chance to be better people.

For example Ben Turner was banned for just 5 games for racial abuse, should ge have also received an automatic lifetime ban from football?  

I wouldn't support this but i feel if we are swift to ban fans for life then players should also receive significantly increased suspensions if found guilty.

 

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54 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Thanks for the update, reveldevil.

I've managed to find a link, pretty much confirming your post.  However, if I'm reading it right, despite him vowing to plead guilty in court for throwing a missile, and despite the police dropping any racist related charges... which has prompted the FA to withdraw any plans for an investigation ("Probe")... it appears that of the three people named and charged as missile throwers,  and one other charged with a public order offence, this statement appears to single out only the banana skin thrower?  

"A Spurs spokesman said: "Behaviour such as this is completely unacceptable and the supporter in question will be issued with a ban."

That may be just poor reporting though, and maybe the others will have also received a lifetime ban?  Can't be sure!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/spurs-fan-who-threw-banana-onto-pitch-im-not-a-racist-a4007451.html

 

 

 

He rang Spurs to apologise, only to be told he'd be banned for life due to his actions in due course.

Presumably once they'd tracked down the other 3000 away fans who chanted 'Yids' during the game, and banned them too.

All the other arrested fans were Gooners, I think.

As a aside, a Brighton fan was arrested for throwing a pie at Wilfred Zaha the other night! 

Once officers had confirmed the pie thrower wasn't racially motivated by tasting the filling, he was bailed to appear at a later date.

Although the ICC are investigating his delivery, as they suspect his action doesn't keep a straight enough wrist.

 

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17 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

It is yes.

The authorities are apparently happy it wasn’t racially motivated,  yet a punishment has to be given to send out a message that racist acts, intended or not wont be tolerated.

A lifetime ban i feel is to severe, surely as i have said before people should be given the chance to be better people.

For example Ben Turner was banned for just 5 games for racial abuse, should ge have also received an automatic lifetime ban from football?  

I wouldn't support this but i feel if we are swift to ban fans for life then players should also receive significantly increased suspensions if found guilty.

 

I think I said earlier that they should ban anyone caught throwing anything for life, not just this guy. I think I said anyone that throws anything is scum of the highest order.

I'm sure I mentioned my disappointment that they were only highlighting the banana skin incident. What kind of person goes to a football game and starts throwing things at someone/anyone.

I don't know the full facts on Turner, his defence and the clubs defence was that he didn't racially abuse the guy. The player he "abused" didn't hear it. It was his team mate who reported it.

Sources close to the club told me he said you could have ended my career you see you next Tuesday. He got done for calling the guy a Korean see you next Tuesday.

I'd like to believe Turner but was also incredibly disappointed with him for putting himself and the club in that posiiton.

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17 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I think I said earlier that they should ban anyone caught throwing anything for life, not just this guy. I think I said anyone that throws anything is scum of the highest order.

I'm sure I mentioned my disappointment that they were only highlighting the banana skin incident. What kind of person goes to a football game and starts throwing things at someone/anyone.

I don't know the full facts on Turner, his defence and the clubs defence was that he didn't racially abuse the guy. The player he "abused" didn't hear it. It was his team mate who reported it.

Sources close to the club told me he said you could have ended my career you see you next Tuesday. He got done for calling the guy a Korean see you next Tuesday.

I'd like to believe Turner but was also incredibly disappointed with him for putting himself and the club in that posiiton.

I agree,  but if we are banning purely on the basis of throwing missiles a banana skin isnt going to injure anyone.

I think it was last season i said i was disappointed in the length of a ban a Derby fan got for running on the pitch during a game.  He was banned for the rest of the season. 

I was told by many that i was wrong for wanting a longer ban. I believe if you are to say someone throwing a missile should be banned then the same for fans running on the pitch,  i would treat all pitch invaders as a threat to players or officials,  or do we have to wait until something bad does actually happen?

Likewise if throwing a banana skin as a missile is worthy of a lifetime ban then any player headbutting or biting another player etc should receive the same sort of ban.

John Terry got away lightly with racist abuse too. 

To flip it though i would also have punished the players involved and chelsea very severely for their clear attempt to frame clattenburg for racial abuse.

Lets just have a level playing field and treat and punish everyone equally. 

Spurs have clearly banned him because of the racist aspect, lets see if they do the same if kane et al did the same. I think we know the answer. 

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2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

I agree,  but if we are banning purely on the basis of throwing missiles a banana skin isnt going to injure anyone.

I think it was last season i said i was disappointed in the length of a ban a Derby fan got for running on the pitch during a game.  He was banned for the rest of the season. 

I was told by many that i was wrong for wanting a longer ban. I believe if you are to say someone throwing a missile should be banned then the same for fans running on the pitch,  i would treat all pitch invaders as a threat to players or officials,  or do we have to wait until something bad does actually happen?

Likewise if throwing a banana skin as a missile is worthy of a lifetime ban then any player headbutting or biting another player etc should receive the same sort of ban.

John Terry got away lightly with racist abuse too. 

To flip it though i would also have punished the players involved and chelsea very severely for their clear attempt to frame clattenburg for racial abuse.

Lets just have a level playing field and treat and punish everyone equally. 

Spurs have clearly banned him because of the racist aspect, lets see if they do the same if kane et al did the same. I think we know the answer. 

If I'm reading that right, you think all pitch invaders should receive the same treatment as someone who assaults a player, because they might assault a player? Seems a bit minority report.

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3 hours ago, reveldevil said:

As a aside, a Brighton fan was arrested for throwing a pie at Wilfred Zaha the other night! 

Once officers had confirmed the pie thrower wasn't racially motivated by tasting the filling, he was bailed to appear at a later date.

I wasn’t aware of this but l think l can guess the outcome. Did Zaha quickly get the pie under control, before rushing off at speed attempting a combination of stepovers and drag backs, before the pie ultimately came to rest atop Lewis Dunk’s dining room table?

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1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I wasn’t aware of this but l think l can guess the outcome. Did Zaha quickly get the pie under control, before rushing off at speed attempting a combination of stepovers and drag backs, before the pie ultimately came to rest atop Lewis Dunk’s dining room table?

Landed on the floor next to him and he hit the deck holding his face, rolling around. 

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11 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Really?

If this is the case, you either don't know how bad things used to be or you pay no attention to what happens in football grounds.

I can honestly say I cannot remember any incidents of racism that I have witnessed inside a football ground for years and years  (although this obviously doesn't mean it doesn't happen).

We have the 'Kick It Out' campaign where players must wear t-shirts promoting anti racism, we have players wearing rainbow laces (I know this is not race related) and we even have various parties banging the drum for people who are not white to be given interviews for positions they are probably not really fit to do (not based on colour).

I'm genuinely shocked if you think an isolated incident, where there is no evidence of racism, is an indicator that there has been no progress on prejudice inside football.

I’m sure there has been progress.

As for no evidence of racism?

I’m not a criminal lawyer and I’m not passing judgement without me being able to see the full prosecution file but I suspect that throwing a banana skin at a black man is deemed grounds to investigate an alleged offence of racially aggravated offence.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham/tottenham-fan-who-threw-banana-skin-at-aubameyang-quizzed-by-police-over-race-offence-as-spurs-issue-a4007896.html%3famp

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48 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said:

I’m sure there has been progress.

As for no evidence of racism?

I’m not a criminal lawyer and I’m not passing judgement without me being able to see the full prosecution file but I suspect that throwing a banana skin at a black man is deemed grounds to investigate an alleged offence of racially aggravated offence.

Where is the evidence of racism then?

The only argument that I can see is that a banana skin is a racist symbol.

There appeared to be plenty of things being thrown, are the other perpetrators automatically not deemed racist because they threw coins rather than a banana skin?

Had the goalscorer been white and the perpetrator been black (or whatever the pc term is these days) what would they have had to throw for it to be deemed racist?

Personally, I think morons who are prepared to throw things at footballers are most likely to throw the first thing that comes to hand.

Of course I could be completely wrong and this guy could have taken a banana into the ground with the sole intention  of throwing it at a black player, however, assuming this as the default position is wrong in my opinion.

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20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Where is the evidence of racism then?

The only argument that I can see is that a banana skin is a racist symbol.

There appeared to be plenty of things being thrown, are the other perpetrators automatically not deemed racist because they threw coins rather than a banana skin?

Had the goalscorer been white and the perpetrator been black (or whatever the pc term is these days) what would they have had to throw for it to be deemed racist?

Personally, I think morons who are prepared to throw things at footballers are most likely to throw the first thing that comes to hand.

Of course I could be completely wrong and this guy could have taken a banana into the ground with the sole intention  of throwing it at a black player, however, assuming this as the default position is wrong in my opinion.

The police have arrested him and are investigating him on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence.

I have no idea what their evidence is.

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said:

The police have arrested him and are investigating him on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence.

I have no idea what their evidence is.

Your original post said 'as for no evidence of racism?' So I assumed that there was evidence that was public knowledge.

As far as I can see the only evidence is a banana skin.

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16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Your original post said 'as for no evidence of racism?' So I assumed that there was evidence that was public knowledge.

As far as I can see the only evidence is a banana skin.

That’s why I quoted the article.

The police had arrested him and are investigating him on suspicion of a racially aggravated assault.

They must have felt they had enough evidence to make that arrest.

 

I’ve no idea what the evidence is,it’s just an assumption that throwing a banana skin at a black man is racist in these circumstances.

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9 hours ago, StringerBell said:

If I'm reading that right, you think all pitch invaders should receive the same treatment as someone who assaults a player, because they might assault a player? Seems a bit minority report.

Im saying a few months ban is insufficient. 

Yes i think punishment should be harsher. 

 

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11 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

of which, there was none?   

So it seems.

Im not saying don't ban him but lifetime seems ott.

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20 hours ago, StringerBell said:

If the unconscious became conscious then what are we still to do about the unconscious bias?

I often don't act on my conscious thoughts never mind the unconscious ones. And I'm not going out of my way to treat certain people differently to alleviate for some thoughts I may or may not be having.

IAT's aren't reliable either

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/culture-conscious/201706/is-implicit-bias-useful-scientific-concept%3famp

 

I don't get your question at all. For example, racism can be conscious or unconscious. Sometimes people disagree with their own unconscious mind and want it to change.

The beauty of science, you'll always find the opposite view. I didn't check the reliability of the test I linked, but most of them are based on a very reliable and valid one which was created in Harvard after millions of test uses. Usually, you're pretty safe with these big universities publishes, they have too much to lose not to check everything properly.

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