Nuwtfly Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Personally I think Thorne and Butters are Better players than Bryson so there must be more to it than football reasons You could certainly justify Butterfield over Bryson at the moment. Could probably justify Max Bird over him as well. I suspect it'll be Holmes, Mount and Evans now going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Personally I think Thorne and Butters are Better players than Bryson so there must be more to it than football reasons I think it’s running 22 minutes ago, lukedcfc said: He should be in the match day 18, he must have some clause in his contract. His form under clement was excellent, 100% a confidence player. It is odd that no one wants him, maybe he is fussy with where he moves. Butterfield couldn’t get a game at Norwich or Middlesbrough and he needed to be at low championship Huddersfield and Barnsley to get a game, mind you even Sheffield Wednesday hardly played him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said: I still believe he should be in our matchday 18. I also don’t see Hull in for him for reasons already outlined. He’s surely easy to recruit right now so a tad worrying for him that he’s still here whilst others have already got their loan exits. You have to wonder if his agent is doing everything he can to make clubs aware of his willingness to move and of the clubs willingness to facilitate it. Unless the club has moved the goal posts on contribution or restricting the clubs who can have him. When I look at other deals getting done It beggars belief why he's still on hold. FL's recent comments don't help however, which seemed to imply a move for JB and Anya was perhaps down to hunger. I know for a fact that he's desperate to re-launch his career, and no decent club would be beyond consideration. But, in window terms, it's still early days, so we'll see what happens. And I agree, he should be in the squad and at least on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzaram Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said: You have to wonder if his agent is doing everything he can to make clubs aware of his willingness to move and of the clubs willingness to facilitate it. Unless the club has moved the goal posts on contribution or restricting the clubs who can have him. When I look at other deals getting done It beggars belief why he's still on hold. FL's recent comments don't help however, which seemed to imply a move for JB and Anya was perhaps down to hunger. I know for a fact that he's desperate to re-launch his career, and no decent club would be beyond consideration. But, in window terms, it's still early days, so we'll see what happens. And I agree, he should be in the squad and at least on the bench. Or maybe perhaps we are delaying any move, waiting for the right offer. I'm sure I read that a number of clubs are interested. Maybe best offer gets him and we may have to wait a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 39 minutes ago, Mazzaram said: Or maybe perhaps we are delaying any move, waiting for the right offer. I'm sure I read that a number of clubs are interested. Maybe best offer gets him and we may have to wait a while. Could be!? We'll see in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Why has some fans opinion on Butters suddenly changed when he hasnt kicked a ball in the senior side? He’s gone from utterly useless donkey to andres iniesta based on a few kick abouts in the under 23s & ‘needing a bit of confidence’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, G-Ram said: Why has some fans opinion on Butters suddenly changed when he hasnt kicked a ball in the senior side? He’s gone from utterly useless donkey to andres iniesta based on a few kick abouts in the under 23s & ‘needing a bit of confidence’ Haven’t commented on this thread but I’ve always praised him. Would pick him over Bryson every week and I love Bryson. Just have fond memories of Butterfield playing with confidence! I think he was cleared of this ‘only passes sideways’ nonsense too by some nerd crunching the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 hours ago, The Arch Deacon said: ...I know for a fact that he's desperate to re-launch his career, and no decent club would be beyond consideration. He can afford to be fussy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 57 minutes ago, G-Ram said: Why has some fans opinion on Butters suddenly changed when he hasnt kicked a ball in the senior side? He’s gone from utterly useless donkey to andres iniesta based on a few kick abouts in the under 23s & ‘needing a bit of confidence’ Because anyone with sense and decent eyesight will look back at his appearances with us and accept that whilst he’s not been a great purchase in hindsight, he did start very well and has since been - like others - the victim of our club’s decisions to keep changing manager/style of football. During Butterfield’s Rams career he’s had: Clement - signed him, played him regular, scoring goals, top of the league in a rather slow, possession-based system. Abandoned at the first sign of trouble. Pearson - old skool, agricultural football was introduced, a disciplinarian installed, the likes of Butterfield played out of position. Abandoned even quicker. Mac - back to a more pleasing on the eye style of football, with possession the key and a ridiculous run of clean sheets and wins at one point, with Butterfield a regular. Abandoned bizarrely. Rowett - back to thoughtless, kick and rush football and whilst effective in the main, it wasn’t enough against genuine football sides, with Butterfield and other ‘footballers’ surplus to requirements. Lampard - another u-turn, more attractive football but played at pace in two thirds of the pitch but looking a little lacking defensively especially against certain opposition, with Butterfield and others ostracised from day one. Even in between all that, the lad had one caretaker who ignored him (Wassall) and another who played him (Powell). And, he went to Wednesday as a Carvahal (attacking style) recruit who was not long after replaced by a defensive coach in Luhaky. He’s been an average player for us when called upon. Had some great moments, some good, some bad, but mainly average. He’s never been useless or horrific. Just average on the whole and totally undeserving of the stick he gets. It’s my opinion (which means nothing) that he should be in our first team because he’s better (in my opinion) than at least one of the regulars. However, I accepted in the summer that it wasn’t going to happen. And God knows why. I hope he gets a move and we all move on. And play Bird and Sibley, allowing us to shift on the likes of Johnson, Huddlestone and Bryson who have been no better than Butterfield if people are looking at things honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Go and get some football Jacob ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Ram Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If him and Anya got their noses out of the money trough and REALLY wanted to play football instead of counting the money every Friday then they would get a move sorted. I will put the kettle on and wait and see ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Nuwtfly said: I suspect it'll be Holmes, Mount and Evans now going forward. Which is a very exciting midfield 3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, Seaside Ram said: If him and Anya got their noses out of the money trough and REALLY wanted to play football instead of counting the money every Friday then they would get a move sorted. I will put the kettle on and wait and see ! Sanctimonious rubbish - you'd do exactly the same in their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 40 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said: Because anyone with sense and decent eyesight will look back at his appearances with us and accept that whilst he’s not been a great purchase in hindsight, he did start very well and has since been - like others - the victim of our club’s decisions to keep changing manager/style of football. During Butterfield’s Rams career he’s had: Clement - signed him, played him regular, scoring goals, top of the league in a rather slow, possession-based system. Abandoned at the first sign of trouble. Pearson - old skool, agricultural football was introduced, a disciplinarian installed, the likes of Butterfield played out of position. Abandoned even quicker. Mac - back to a more pleasing on the eye style of football, with possession the key and a ridiculous run of clean sheets and wins at one point, with Butterfield a regular. Abandoned bizarrely. Rowett - back to thoughtless, kick and rush football and whilst effective in the main, it wasn’t enough against genuine football sides, with Butterfield and other ‘footballers’ surplus to requirements. Lampard - another u-turn, more attractive football but played at pace in two thirds of the pitch but looking a little lacking defensively especially against certain opposition, with Butterfield and others ostracised from day one. Even in between all that, the lad had one caretaker who ignored him (Wassall) and another who played him (Powell). And, he went to Wednesday as a Carvahal (attacking style) recruit who was not long after replaced by a defensive coach in Luhaky. He’s been an average player for us when called upon. Had some great moments, some good, some bad, but mainly average. He’s never been useless or horrific. Just average on the whole and totally undeserving of the stick he gets. It’s my opinion (which means nothing) that he should be in our first team because he’s better (in my opinion) than at least one of the regulars. However, I accepted in the summer that it wasn’t going to happen. And God knows why. I hope he gets a move and we all move on. And play Bird and Sibley, allowing us to shift on the likes of Johnson, Huddlestone and Bryson who have been no better than Butterfield if people are looking at things honestly. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Ram Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Sanctimonious rubbish - you'd do exactly the same in their position. Ok but can people please stop saying how great they are and that they really want to re start their careers !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Seaside Ram said: Ok but can people please stop saying how great they are and that they really want to re start their careers !!! Not seen anyone say that either player is great. My view is that Anya is an average player at Championship level, hindered by being played in too many positions. Butterfield is much better than many on here seem to think he is but for most if his time with us he's been played far too deep, similar to how we used Will Hughes on many occasions - they both have the ability to make a killer pass and far more productive doing it in the opposition penalty box than in our own half. He's a talent wasted as far as I'm concerned but time for him to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Ram Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Not seen anyone say that either player is great. My view is that Anya is an average player at Championship level, hindered by being played in too many positions. Butterfield is much better than many on here seem to think he is but for most if his time with us he's been played far too deep, similar to how we used Will Hughes on many occasions - they both have the ability to make a killer pass and far more productive doing it in the opposition penalty box than in our own half. He's a talent wasted as far as I'm concerned but time for him to move on. So why doesn't he ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Seaside Ram said: So why doesn't he ?????? Do I need to explain how the transfer system works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 There is absolutely no way Butterfield would add anything to this team!! He can’t tackle, he doesn’t have the engine to play 4-3-3, takes too many touches plays with his head down despite his passing ability. Because he’s been out the side for a while people are looking at his contribution through rose tinted glasses. Technically a good player no question, but never been the right fit for Derby, as he wasn’t for Norwich Boro it Sheff Weds. How those can even suggest he justifies a place ahead of Bryson is beyond me. Bryson’s workrate and defensive contribution is much greater, when he plays badly he’s still a solid 6/7 out of 10, when fully fit he contributes to our attack as he’s demonstrated earlier on this season (Brentford, United, Sheff Utd). Butterfield does neither as demonstrated under Mac 2 where he barely scored any goals and was present in all our away day hammerings in the second half of that season which for me were the some of the worst Derby performances in recent years. If you want Bryson out the team there are several ahead of Jacob in the pecking order and rightly so. Technically good, never fitted, needs to move on. I won’t be sad about it, I’m only sad about George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Ram Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Do I need to explain how the transfer system works? It needs a player who puts playing above money . Don't bother replying as we will just go round in circles , all the best and COYR ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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