v Stoke City (A) Match Thread

['Rambe33]

Went to bed bitterly disappointed and a wee bit angry after the game last night. Having had a bit of time to reflect there's a few points to discuss and dissect. 

We actually started well and did the right thing initially in terms of getting our ball players on the ball. Mount and Lawrence were initially the bright sparks. In contrast BJ and Bryson were slow in thought and possession. 

2. We didn't Utilise Wilson or the extd mind at all once they went down to 10 men. More care and better decision making would have helped us in the final third. Too often we looked to go direct to Marriott who was always going to struggle against Shawcross and Williams in the air. 

3. Second half we were far too slow in possession. Lawrence after starting well let it all go to waste with his pot shots and headless runs into congested areas. 

4. Bogle defensively worries me. So ponderous and not taking responsibility leading to hesitation. I think if Wisdom isn't fancied a right back is required on Jan. He needs help, he's only 18 and not the finished article but still could be. 

5. The goals we conceded were so avoidable which is infuriating. We looked so slow on the turn and didn't react to the danger quick enough. 

 

Oversll I think Frank got the team selection wrong. Jozefzoon should have retained his place as Huddlestone should have. If they were fatigued fair enough but the constant chopping and changing isn't helping. 

Breaking down 10 men is difficult but you have to be Street smart and play the tempo and conditions at the right time. Once we got to 1-1 we needed to be composed and still keep our boot on the necks of Stoke but also remain vigilant defensively. We just went gung-ho at them, so naive! 

 

Disappointing result and a real missed opportunity but plenty of football to play. Saturday is a big big game now. Max points is the order. Lose two on the bounce in the championship and you lose ground very quickly. We have to try and go on another 3/4 winning run! 

 

 

[Carnero]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

I just wanted to pick up on a couple of points - I thought Tom Ince was quite respectful of the Derby fans - he applauded us both before and after the game. I was pleased that we reciprocated with our own applause that quickly drowned out the few boos. I also thought he was their most creative player and didn't notice the dives that some are talking about.

Good to hear that Angie, I was always a fan of Ince of never understood some of the stick he got at times.

He did you a few cheeky dives (easy to see on TV replays), but no worse than the likes of Wilson & Mount do for us and all part of the game these days.

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

2 hours ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

Lets face all 4 fullbacks we have and Olsson so 5 are equally inadequate for a team chasing promotion and if this is not addressed in January we will either finish midtable or scrape into the play offs like last season then loose in the play off semis .

If you throw max Lowe in as well then we have 6 defenders who are poor at defending! I voted the poll last week that we’d finish 7th-12th and I still firmly believe that’s where we are. Moments of brilliance, lack of consistency, sheer ineptness in defence, no clean sheet in 12 games is just ridiculous.

 

I think we’ve tried the 4-3-3 enough this season to start to think it’s not the formation that’s gojnf to get the best from us. I’d try the 4-2-3-1 for a bit, Evans and Huddlestone to sit and provide some protection for our back line. The full backs can still bomb on and the front 4 can all interchange and do what they want. As it stands everybody floods forward and were left with Keogh, Tomori & Huddlestone to defend.

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, Carnero said:

Good to hear that Angie, I was always a fan of Ince of never understood some of the stick he got at times.

He did you a few cheeky dives (easy to see on TV replays), but no worse than the likes of Wilson & Mount do for us and all part of the game these days.

Maybe I have a different definition for diving than everyone else, but was there any diving last night? Diving to me is when there’s no contact from the defender and a player falls over, trying to gain advantages by going down from a bit of contact or even running in to players (Wilson) is just trying to be smart (sometimes too smart). But alas to me that’s not diving and has always been a part of football to me.

[Mucker1884]

 

[Premier ram]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I just wanted to pick up on a couple of points - I thought Tom Ince was quite respectful of the Derby fans - he applauded us both before and after the game. I was pleased that we reciprocated with our own applause that quickly drowned out the few boos. I also thought he was their most creative player and didn't notice the dives that some are talking about.

Your point about bookings is true - if we aren't getting the fouls we think we deserve we tend to dish out our own justice - and let's face it, we aren't very good at it! 

I know that I have only quoted bits, but good post. 

Butland was the difference last night.

glad you watched the same game as me angie , top man Incey , had a good game , also Butland was the difference , onto Saturday , the lads need our support , hopefully 3pts will help us forget last night

[TuffLuff]

Tell you what though something that bugged me all last night and all day today was Mark Sale’s *poo* eating smile at the end. If I was Frank that’s all the motivation I’d need to make sure when they came to Pride Park that we dominated them from the first minute and win 3-0.

....or if we lose, punch him in his face.

[cannable]

I thought it was a good day out, result aside

[Remy the hare]

6 hours ago, WAGHORNY RAM99 said:

Lets face all 4 fullbacks we have and Olsson so 5 are equally inadequate for a team chasing promotion and if this is not addressed in January we will either finish midtable or scrape into the play offs like last season then loose in the play off semis .

I cant believe that we bought Malone (out of thin air) and didn’t go for Barry Douglas who wolves were off loading more cheaper. Solid defensively, can cross and a dead ball specialist.

We suit a 3 5 2 more with the personnel we have but frank and co won’t move from the 4 at the back I don’t think. 

[angieram]

42 minutes ago, cannable said:

I thought it was a good day out, result aside

Me too!

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

I thought it was a good day out, result aside

I thought it was awful.

poo weather

poo match

And then to top it off my car got locked in a car park as I decided to go to the pub after rather than sit in gridlock for an hour. Got home at 6:30 am from a 40 mile journey. @BurtonRam7 may have some competition. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

I do realise that match stats do not always tell the whole story in terms of skills etc but the ones from last nights match show what a flawless Rowett performance stoke put in.

2 goals from 4 shots on target (we managed 1 from 8). 24% possession - soak up the pressure, sit in and counter.

on another day that could have been our game. But it illustrates some of the views on here neatly.

- we ain’t going nowhere if 50% of on target shots are goals

- we aren’t generally creating enough really good quality chances

- we are giving up chances too easily from relatively little possession by the opposition 

plenty for Frank and Jody to ponder and work on.

[Gritstone Ram]

A game of two keepers.

Although Ince was quick on the break I thought Butland was MOTM. I couldn’t see the foul on Keogh and was surprised that he  gave a straight red but hopefully I can see it on TV a bit better.

It was yet another typical ‘we’re not bothered about playing the beautiful game of football’ from Stoke and the second half just became attackers v defenders.

At the final whistle it raised a massive cheer from the home fans. I thought they are easily pleased. Maybe Rowett made the right move if he can get away with that. 

From my point of view we should have kicked on when we equalised and won the game, instead we let Stoke back in front then they parked the bus.

Frank seemed a bit pissed off at the end you can tell he doesn’t like losing. 

I didn’t understand why Johnson started. We need to strengthen both full backs and in midfield. 

[VulcanRam]

39 minutes ago, Gritters said:

A game of two keepers.

Although Ince was quick on the break I thought Butland was MOTM. I couldn’t see the foul on Keogh and was surprised that he  gave a straight red but hopefully I can see it on TV a bit better.

It was yet another typical ‘we’re not bothered about playing the beautiful game of football’ from Stoke and the second half just became attackers v defenders.

At the final whistle it raised a massive cheer from the home fans. I thought they are easily pleased. Maybe Rowett made the right move if he can get away with that. 

From my point of view we should have kicked on when we equalised and won the game, instead we let Stoke back in front then they parked the bus.

Frank seemed a bit pissed off at the end you can tell he doesn’t like losing. 

I didn’t understand why Johnson started. We need to strengthen both full backs and in midfield. 

The foul was as clear a red card as you'll ever see.

I think you're being harsh on Stoke if I'm honest. Their counter attacking football was better that what we produced as a whole. Maybe it was because our poor defending but they did what Rowett does  - get the ball from back to front as quickly as possible - very well.

We did it lots of times last year with Vyrda on the end of chances and when it works, like it did for Stoke last night, I think it looks good and it's highly effective.

If you think Stoke were crap and their fans easily pleased, I'd like to see your assessment of what we produced, which apart from a Wilson special free-kick, couple of Lawrence long shots and a Marriott flick, wasn't a great deal at all, even with a man extra. 

And I'll add that if Derby had played for two thirds of the match with 10 men against a supposed promotion rival, and won having been pegged back (even though in your assessment, they were just parking the bus, which they weren't), I would have been absolutely delighted.

You say Stoke "weren't bothered about playing the beautiful game at all" as if we were.

I can't sense whether you're just feeling a bit bitter or your glasses are distinctly rose-coloured. 

 

 

[Gritstone Ram]

18 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

The foul was as clear a red card as you'll ever see.

I think you're being harsh on Stoke if I'm honest. Their counter attacking football was better that what we produced as a whole. Maybe it was because our poor defending but they did what Rowett does  - get the ball from back to front as quickly as possible - very well.

We did it lots of times last year with Vyrda on the end of chances and when it works, like it did for Stoke last night, I think it looks good and it's highly effective.

If you think Stoke were crap and their fans easily pleased, I'd like to see your assessment of what we produced, which apart from a Wilson special free-kick, couple of Lawrence long shots and a Marriott flick, wasn't a great deal at all, even with a man extra. 

And I'll add that if Derby had played for two thirds of the match with 10 men against a supposed promotion rival, and won having been pegged back (even though in your assessment, they were just parking the bus, which they weren't), I would have been absolutely delighted.

You say Stoke "weren't bothered about playing the beautiful game at all" as if we were.

I can't sense whether you're just feeling a bit bitter or your glasses are distinctly rose-coloured. 

 

 

My assessment of us was plenty of possession with diddly squat end product.

It is our same old problem of not breaking down these teams. Bolton, Rotherham, Millwall. Until we can do that we will struggle put a bit of quality in the opposition team and we are always vulnerable to the counter attack.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, Gritters said:

My assessment of us was plenty of possession with diddly squat end product.

It is our same old problem of not breaking down these teams. Bolton, Rotherham, Millwall. Until we can do that we will struggle put a bit of quality in the opposition team and we are always vulnerable to the counter attack.

As I said in the other thread we make our own problems, concede early every game like we do and you hand the initiative over to teams like that to just sit back, becomes incredibly difficult to break them down when there’s no need to attack. Imo if we weren’t losing all the time we’d get more space and we’ve got the quality to creat chances, but right now we make it far too hard for oursleves. Fix the defence, as a unit rather than individuals, and you’ll start to see us build more results like the West Brom one where we actually started well for once and didn’t fall behind. Until then, results like this will continue.

[Gritstone Ram]

7 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

As I said in the other thread we make our own problems, concede early every game like we do and you hand the initiative over to teams like that to just sit back, becomes incredibly difficult to break them down when there’s no need to attack. Imo if we weren’t losing all the time we’d get more space and we’ve got the quality to creat chances, but right now we make it far too hard for oursleves. Fix the defence, as a unit rather than individuals, and you’ll start to see us build more results like the West Brom one where we actually started well for once and didn’t fall behind. Until then, results like this will continue.

It’s like we are giving teams a head start.

[Millenniumram]

13 minutes ago, Gritters said:

It’s like we are giving teams a head start.

It’s not even a bloody difficult issue to fix and it’s not exactly not bleeding obvious either... just come out awake and alert ffs! That’s what’s so frustrating, cutting out poor passes through lapses in concentration and similar defensive errors shouldn’t need bloody Pep Guardiola in to sort out, players need to stop rocking up thinking they can just glide through and actually get stuck in from the start, and have the same energy from the start that we do when we’re loosing sometimes!

[Rampage]

Got to say that Waghorn does not look value for money but he needs a good run playing to his strengths

[Rampage]

On 28/11/2018 at 22:45, Ruda Harliss said:

Hate criticising Carson but again I thought at least 1 goal was soft. Maybe both if I’m honest 

His game has dropped and is dropping.