Comrade 86 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 This is a very long moan about moaners - those of a sensitive disposition, look away now.... Expectation Vs Entitlement We’ve all seen Gladiator, right? ‘Are you not entertained’, bellows Russell Crowe at the baying crowd, having ruthlessly dispatched half a dozen scary looking blokes in ever-increasingly, blood-curdling fashion. So, are we not entertained? Last season we were treated to around 40 games of what one might politely term, ‘pragmatic football’. There were maybe half a dozen games where we looked good but for the most part, we sat deep, took zero risks and tried to steal points. It really wasn’t great to watch but we had to admit (or some of us did) that it was more than passably effective given we ended the season a mere 45 minutes away from a play-off final before our total lack of ambition became our ultimate undoing. This season we’re a different side. The turgid, ponderous, route one approach has been swept aside in favour of a high-risk, high-tempo game where we simply try to blow teams away with fast, fluid football. In doing so, we always look to build from the back and we avoid humping balls down the channels, all in favour of one-touch interchanges between players who constantly run into spaces, while off the ball, we press like madmen until our legs fill with lactic acid and we can run no more. This approach brings a deal more entertainment value, but it does rather mean that when we are not fully on it, we can be ruthlessly exposed. Both Leeds and Villa, two sides whose personnel have been together for some time and mostly comprise of seasoned professionals, have done exactly that. To compound this, we’ve rather capitulated in both games, and yet quite tellingly, only in those two games. No other teams have really pulled us apart, with the few other lacklustre efforts generally being of our own making. Even then (and often from a goal down) we’ve stuck to our guns and salvaged wins and draws without as a result. That's progress. My expectations are quite simple this season. That we stick to the plan and try and play football the way it should be played. I sense that unless we are crippled with injuries, the only way this will not yield a play-off slot is if the players shrink back into their shells and begin to play with fear again. But here’s the thing - it’s not an entitlement – we have no divine right to success. Our net spend in a transformational season was around £1 million and Frank and Jody have only been here a quarter of a season with just a single transfer window in which to re-shape the team. To my mind, they’ve moved mountains, lowering the average age and the wage bill, promoting youth and setting about trying to build a side to progress not just in the current season, but with an eye on the future too. All of this has been done against a backdrop of often sensational football, with the odd shocker thrown in to keep us on our toes. Put simply, it’s been one hell of a ride so far and for my part, I’ve absolutely loved it. Much of what I have just described, is precisely what the bulk of malcontents last season were baying for – entertainment, youth, a sounder financial footing, no mercenaries out for a last fat pay check and most important of all, some entertaining football. By and large, the fans have kept their side of the deal. Most have remained upbeat after the adverse results this season, but as always, there’s a core of noisy, know-it-all’s who we only hear from after a defeat or poor performance and who completely lose their perspective anytime some poor miscreant fails to meet their exacting performance standards. That, my friends, is entitlement, pure and simple. We beat West Brom 4-1, Leeds beat us 4-1, West Brom beat Leeds 4-1. It’s the nature of the beast and what makes the Championship so much more compelling than the Prem where it’s 2 or three 3 teams competing at the top and very seldom more. Let’s be honest here, there’s a world of difference between stating facts like, ‘Bogle looked exposed today’ or ‘Lawrence went missing and failed to help his fullback’ and some of the utter garbage posted by bedwetting, knee-jerkers who’d have us believe that the sky has just fallen in. The relish with which some on here have been talking about the Villa game as season-defining and other such bolarks makes me genuinely despair. Why is it that the same folk don’t see our performances against the likes of Manure, Sheffield, Chelsea, Brum and the Baggies as being in any way defining, why is it only the games that we lose that are meaningful? These are, of course rhetorical questions, as the answer is abundantly clear to all bar the individuals themselves. Let’s talk about Bogle now. Jayden Bogle turned 18 this summer. Three games in, he was being lauded as the next big thing to come out of our academy, a ‘future £20 million’ player and quite rightly so really, but the fact remains that he’s only 13 games into his senior career and as a nipper, will be ruthlessly targeted by teams this season in the hope that he’ll crumble. I think yesterday, he did a little and it was painful to watch. His confidence is, I suspect, at a slightly low ebb right now but does that not mean that he needs our support more at this time than when he’s flying? Do you seriously believe that he and other players won’t have been reading this and other forums since the game and how do we suppose young Jayden would feel reading some of the comments posted? As for Tom Lawrence, well he is a different case. He’s become something of a pantomime villain for some of the supposed Derby faithful, mainly, I suspect, because he was Rowett’s prime target and the fact that he cost a fair few quid, neither of which are his fault. He has also been hugely frustrating at times, showing flashes of immense ability on occasions, then playing as if he’s the only Derby player on the park. His work rate seems highly inconsistent too but I think to a degree, he just doesn’t have an engine like a Craig Bryson type player and today he looked out on his feet to me. In truth, he barely lifted a leg and I can fully grasp how that will irk many fans. That said, in recent games he’s played well, better than well in fact and as a result, he’s got a bit love chucked his way from the Derby faithful, many of whom have been staunch in their support of him when perhaps he’s not fully deserved it. Happy-clappers, huh! Yesterday, it’s fair to say, he was all Jekyll and no Hyde but does that justify a noisy minority comparing his usefulness to ruptured prophylactics whilst others earnestly stated he should never play for Derby again? We can be the architects of our own downfall sometimes, is what I’m trying to say and before some wag asks me what’s wrong with criticising a player, the answer is nothing at all, it’s the way it’s sometimes done that bothers myself and many others on here. Anyone can utter a cross word in the heat of the moment, but when it’s the same folk again and again, it’s going to get a rise out of some on here as is probably the aim anyway. If this is you then just don’t be a baby when a few choice words head back in your direction, eh? So, expectation vs entitlement – the former is the right of every fan surely? We expect our team to try hard, to show pride in the club and to prosper when they have all the tools at their disposal and a golden opportunity to do so. I think that’s most of us, right? The latter is the province of hypocrites who clearly believe their own workplace performance never waivers below ‘utterly excellent’ (let alone have days where they absolutely suck) and take a perverse pleasure in denigrating a team they claim to support. These ‘fans’ most often blithely assume that we need only turn up to win every game which then affords them the moral imperative to ruin the team when things go wrong. Makes me genuinely despair sometimes. There's nowt wrong with expectation, belief and dreams. The other thing, not so much. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Potatoes gonna potate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Jeez give it a rest man (or woman)! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and, if there is a place to discuss negative opinions, surely the forum is the place to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 I agree with every word written on this forum. I also disagree with every word written on this forum. Does that make sense? Not really, but to me it does. Everyone has their opinions. Everyone is entitled to those opinions. Sometimes the old WUM will say something to disrupt things, but generally words are spoken through love of the club. I'm more in the OP's train of thought on this subject, but that doesn't mean that it's right. What I do agree with though is that at the match support will help raise the team, boos and cries of despair won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Jeez give it a rest man (or woman)! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and, if there is a place to discuss negative opinions, surely the forum is the place to do it? Come on man (or woman!) As I've stated, there's no issues with negative opinions. It's the slagging off of the players that grates not the analysis of their games, good or bad. It's not complicated really. You've just taken someone to task on the match thread for calling the loss 'season defining' in any case, which by your own argument, they are perfectly entitled to do so I'm not really sure where you're coming from right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, richinspain said: I agree with every word written on this forum. I also disagree with every word written on this forum. Does that make sense? Not really, but to me it does. Everyone has their opinions. Everyone is entitled to those opinions. Sometimes the old WUM will say something to disrupt things, but generally words are spoken through love of the club. I'm more in the OP's train of thought on this subject, but that doesn't mean that it's right. What I do agree with though is that at the match support will help raise the team, boos and cries of despair won't. Fair comment. It's not a case of who's wrong or right though as you've pointed out, nor whether to criticise or not. As you allude to yourself, it's really whether or not it's fair and / or helpful. The amount of rubbish that gets posted then defended with the 'its a forum' argument when countered, is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 We have the worst moany fan base i've come across. Our own fans turn on our players as soon as someone misplaces a pass. I mean calling your own players useless C words for a misplaced pass? We don't even cheer or support the lads when they really need it. It's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 48 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Jeez give it a rest man (or woman)! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and, if there is a place to discuss negative opinions, surely the forum is the place to do it? Opinions need to be challenged. That's what a free society consists of. Being 'entitled' to an opinion is only half the story. An opinion expressed is public property and should be examined and critiqued. Now, I admit that this forum is not a great example of that but 'jeez give it a rest' doesn't seem a particularly good refutation of the content of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Jeez give it a rest man (or woman)! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and, if there is a place to discuss negative opinions, surely the forum is the place to do it? Which is what I stated yesterday and the OP inferred that he wished that I had never been born! Very odd, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no opinion is more worthy than another whether you agree with it or not. It doesn’t have to get personal with another user on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: We have the worst moany fan base i've come across. Our own fans turn on our players as soon as someone misplaces a pass. I mean calling your own players useless C words for a misplaced pass? We don't even cheer or support the lads when they really need it. It's a joke. Are we the worst though? I think we're probably on a par with quite a few clubs. On occasions our support at games has been phenomenal. I think it's more a minority thing but the moaners just have louder voices. I think last year it got close to toxic at times but I've not sensed that this season, least not as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, McLovin said: Which is what I stated yesterday and the OP inferred that he wished that I had never been born! Very odd, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no opinion is more worthy than another whether you agree with it or not. It doesn’t have to get personal with another user on a forum. Some opinions are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Some opinions are wrong An opinion can’t be wrong, unless it goes against a proven fact. Balance is needed on a forum, the line gets drawn when someone throws their toys out of their pram and wishes that another user had never been born. It should never get personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: We have the worst moany fan base i've come across. Our own fans turn on our players as soon as someone misplaces a pass. I mean calling your own players useless C words for a misplaced pass? We don't even cheer or support the lads when they really need it. It's a joke. No we don't.. Sorry fella but that is a bollx statement. Every club is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Just now, McLovin said: An opinion can’t be wrong, unless it goes against a proven fact. Balance is needed on a forum, the line gets drawn when someone throws their toys out of their pram and wishes that another user had never been born. It should never get personal. Some opinions are wrong. They don't have to go against 'proven' fact. I saw Vic Moreland play. You can't 'prove' to me he was not better than Roy Mac. Likewise, I cannot 'prove' that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, as conspiracy wackos are always asking normal people to do. No, not all opinions are equally valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Some opinions are wrong. They don't have to go against 'proven' fact. I saw Vic Moreland play. You can't 'prove' to me he was not better than Roy Mac. Likewise, I cannot 'prove' that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, as conspiracy wackos are always asking normal people to do. No, not all opinions are equally valid. Bad example. Its pretty easy to prove that Vic Moreland was worse than Roy Mac. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Some opinions are wrong. They don't have to go against 'proven' fact. I saw Vic Moreland play. You can't 'prove' to me he was not better than Roy Mac. Likewise, I cannot 'prove' that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, as conspiracy wackos are always asking normal people to do. No, not all opinions are equally valid. Exactly, that’s your opinion, I’m sure there are others out there who think that Roy Mac was better. Doesn’t mean that it is wrong or right. To you it might be wrong but to others it isn’t. An opinion cannot be wrong unless it disagrees with a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Opinions need to be challenged. That's what a free society consists of. Being 'entitled' to an opinion is only half the story. An opinion expressed is public property and should be examined and critiqued. Now, I admit that this forum is not a great example of that but 'jeez give it a rest' doesn't seem a particularly good refutation of the content of the post. 'Other folk are entitled to an opinion so stop expressing yours' seems to be the crux of his argument but we don't really see eye to eye so no big deal, really. I give out plenty so I have to expect a fair bit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, McLovin said: Exactly, that’s your opinion, I’m sure there are others out there who think that Roy Mac was better. Doesn’t mean that it is wrong or right. To you it might be wrong but to others it isn’t. An opinion cannot be wrong unless it disagrees with a fact. Is that a fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 hour ago, 86 points said: Yesterday, it’s fair to say, he was all Jekyll and no Hyde I thought he was all Hyde, to be honest. 18 minutes ago, McLovin said: Which is what I stated yesterday and the OP inferred that he wished that I had never been born! Very odd, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no opinion is more worthy than another whether you agree with it or not. It doesn’t have to get personal with another user on a forum. Stop being precious, the OP simply turned your split condom analogy back onto yourself. I do think if you're a footballer, going on fan forums after such a performance would be highly stupid, I'd only have a glance if I was Man of the Match in a thumping win! I also don't think people deserve the tag of bedwetters etc for expressing dissatisfaction with the type of performance we saw yesterday. It would be a more boring forum if I only read opinions that tallyed with my own, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: No we don't.. Sorry fella but that is a bollx statement. Every club is the same. So why did the Brum fans keep singing as they were at 3-1 down supporting their boys? Derby don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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