George Thorne-No longer the player he was

[Curtains]

41 minutes ago, angieram said:

Excuse me Curtains, but last season when some of us were wanting to see a few of the young lads given a go, you argued vociferously against it. I know, because you called me and @B4ev6is out on it on several occasions. 

Of the young players we have let go, Zanzala is the one doing best so far, who I think you didn't rate? 

I think Lowe, Thomas and Elsnik will benefit from their loan as they are getting great experience.

We can't just keep adding player after player to the group, which I think we all agree was getting too large, without letting some others go. 

If a player isn't part of our plans, they may go on to have an equally good (if not better) career elsewhere. This might be because they didn't quite fit our style at the time, or they may get a fillip from a fresh challenge.

All these things are ok, I think? It's hard when your particular favourites aren't getting a look in (I know, from Chris Martin) but it's just part of football.

I think some of our singings (Evans, Holmes for example) are there for when the loanees go back. Although we can always have a few more!

So which players brought in are so much better than the U23s we had. .

Just asking as you were wanting them in the team last season. 

Was Guy so much worse than Holmes 

Was Lowe so much worse than Malone 

Is Jozy so much better tha Thomas 

etc etc 

[Curtains]

55 minutes ago, David said:

That's fine, but makes little sense. Nor does listing both Butterfield and Thorne in our current best midfield after our first defeat in 7 having not played a minute between them.

Let's be honest though, it doesn't really matter what team Lampard puts out you would argue another player should be playing. In other posts today you was suggesting he was naive for playing Bogle over Wisdom, so that's 3 players. 

So you think it was ok to bring Malone on when Holmes went off on Saturday when Forsyth was on as well. 

Is Malone a midfielder and is Holmes for that matter. 

 

Ive already said Max Bird could have been brought on whats wrong with that ! 

What  about Johnson is he injured or fit on the bench  

Like you all say Frank knows best 

[derbydaz22]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

Im not the best person to ask about this because as I have said before I don't actually think Thorne is that good..... but one thing I would throw out there... would a fully fit in his best form George Thorne even get into this side?

The Thorne From 3 years ago would get in every team in the championship but he is a shadow of that player,what a shame but let’s just accept he is just not mobile enough anymore.

[derbydaz22]

48 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So you think it was ok to bring Malone on when Holmes went off on Saturday when Forsyth was on as well. 

Is Malone a midfielder and is Holmes for that matter. 

 

Ive already said Max Bird could have been brought on whats wrong with that ! 

What  about Johnson is he injured or fit on the bench  

Like you all say Frank knows best 

I was  a bit puzzled by Malone coming on Saturday but be fair Frank is certainly getting a lot more decisions right than wrong so far. 1 poor half in 6 games with some entertaining football we could only dream of last season,let’s enjoy this rollercoaster ??

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

 

Fair enough ,, would have been very refreshing had you just come out and said that actually the statement that DCFC had treated Thorne shabbily was a bit ill thought out on reflection , though it may be more suitable with other players ,, Thorne not really

[cannable]

The only occasion in which you could argue shabby treatment is after the Southampton pre-season game when he was made to do shuttle runs by himself whilst fans were still there, having been the only sub not to get on.

Felt quite embarrassed for him then.

[angieram]

58 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So which players brought in are so much better than the U23s we had. .

Just asking as you were wanting them in the team last season. 

Was Guy so much worse than Holmes 

Was Lowe so much worse than Malone 

Is Jozy so much better tha Thomas 

etc etc 

Good question. I think Guy plays in a different position to Holmes so hard to compare. But he's faster and has an eye for a good pass, from what I've seen so far.

I do think Malone is better than Lowe (at the moment) - I have been more impressed with him than I thought I would be.

I haven't seen much to get me excited about Jozefoon yet and I think he's currently third choice as a consequence of this. Doesn't cover back and isn't making up for it with his forward play. Probably needs a run of games to play his way into form. Thomas is similarly limited defensively but probably more direct with his attacking play. I hope he's one for the future and he is getting regular game time in a good Coventry team. In the meanwhile it's been really hard luck for Frank with both Waghorn and Bennett injured now. We couldn't have held Thomas back just for that eventuality.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Good question. I think Guy plays in a different position to Holmes so hard to compare. But he's faster and has an eye for a good pass, from what I've seen so far.

I do think Malone is better than Lowe (at the moment) - I have been more impressed with him than I thought I would be.

I haven't seen much to get me excited about Jozefoon yet and I think he's currently third choice as a consequence of this. Doesn't cover back and isn't making up for it with his forward play. Probably needs a run of games to play his way into form. Thomas is similarly limited defensively but probably more direct with his attacking play. I hope he's one for the future and he is getting regular game time in a good Coventry team. In the meanwhile it's been really hard luck for Frank with both Waghorn and Bennett injured now. We couldn't have held Thomas back just for that eventuality.

Angie I’m not sure I’ve ever had a go at B4 but I do except and concede that with Rowett the younger players weren’t given much of a chance and I did say that policy was ok with us trying to get promotion.

Frank has a different ethos but even he doesn’t trust some of our younger players like Max Bird but has given loads of game time to Bogle and Bennett.

End of the day I hope we all want the same thing which is for the Rams to do well as well as entertain.

I still miss Vydra but I am behind Lampard and have moved on from Rowett. 

Up the Rams. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

So you think it was ok to bring Malone on when Holmes went off on Saturday when Forsyth was on as well. 

Is Malone a midfielder and is Holmes for that matter..

It was a tactical change and we went 5 at the back, so yes bringing Malone on made more sense than bringing a midfielder on.

Was it the right tactical switch is another matter.

Is Holmes a midfielder? Yes.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

It was a tactical change and we went 5 at the back, so yes bringing Malone on made more sense than bringing a midfielder on.

Was it the right tactical switch is another matter.

Is Holmes a midfielder? Yes.

He had Davies on the bench  for  5 at the back .

Whats the point of me carrying on saying stuff with a 2 percent approval rate. 

Frank has the full backing of Derby fans so I’m banging on and no one agrees with me  so I’m taking a sebbatical. 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

He had Davies on the bench  for  5 at the back .

Whats the point of me carrying on saying stuff with a 2 percent approval rate. 

Frank has the full backing of Derby fans so I’m banging on and no one agrees with me  so I’m taking a sebbatical. 

But Malone offers more of an outlet than perhaps Forsyth was doing.

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean you should stop posting.

Given your regular change in stance it's quite obvious that you take the view that is least likely to have the approval of the majority anyway.

[angieram]

18 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Angie I’m not sure I’ve ever had a go at B4 but I do except and concede that with Rowett the younger players weren’t given much of a chance and I did say that policy was ok with us trying to get promotion.

Frank has a different ethos but even he doesn’t trust some of our younger players like Max Bird but has given loads of game time to Bogle and Bennett.

End of the day I hope we all want the same thing which is for the Rams to do well as well as entertain.

I still miss Vydra but I am behind Lampard and have moved on from Rowett. 

Up the Rams. 

He trusts Max Bird enough to put him on the bench ahead of Thorne! He'll get his time.

I honestly don't even think about Vydra , never really warmed to his all round play even though he scored some cracking goals. As I said earlier, I  miss other players more. Martin and Thorne at their best, but I have let Martin go. There's a tiny bit of me still hopeful for a phoenix-like return for our George (he's still my Twitter picture) but I don't think he's anywhere near first team form at the moment,  sorry.

I am pleased to hear you're moving on from Rowett. I think Frank will get it right more often than not; Saturday might have been one of the nots,  but they did rough us up a bit first half, meaning he had to make some changes he perhaps would rather have not. 

That those changes were more attacking than some of us would have wanted is great; we'll always be entertained with Frank in charge and if Malone had raced up that left wing and pulled the ball back for Marriott two minutes after coming on we'd have thought again that he is a tactical genius! 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

He trusts Max Bird enough to put him on the bench ahead of Thorne! He'll get his time.

I honestly don't even think about Vydra , never really warmed to his all round play even though he scored some cracking goals. As I said earlier, I  miss other players more. Martin and Thorne at their best, but I have let Martin go. There's a tiny bit of me still hopeful for a phoenix-like return for our George (he's still my Twitter picture) but I don't think he's anywhere near first team form at the moment,  sorry.

I am pleased to hear you're moving on from Rowett. I think Frank will get it right more often than not; Saturday might have been one of the nots,  but they did rough us up a bit first half, meaning he had to make some changes he perhaps would rather have not. 

That those changes were more attacking than some of us would have wanted is great; we'll always be entertained with Frank in charge and if Malone had raced up that left wing and pulled the ball back for Marriott two minutes after coming on we'd have thought again that he is a tactical genius! 

Good post. 

The irony of all this is Lampard was my favorite player and he had a great career.

I feel he knows more about football than I will ever know. 

Managing Derby is a difficult job and even he has said let’s not get carried away with wins and defeats. 

Its elation when we win but defeats are hard to take. 

Its hard to be objective all the time on a football forum. 

[Smyth_18]

5 hours ago, Curtains said:

Thorne is fit for gods sake.  

Hes good enough for the first team.  

Its madness playing 2 left backs. 

George Thorne is far from fit. It's a medical/ statistical fact.

 

Was my hero but there comes a time when you have to let it go. It's over.

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

George Thorne is far from fit. It's a medical/ statistical fact.

 

Was my hero but there comes a time when you have to let it go. It's over.

So Harsh 

[B4ev6is]

I think frank lampard had bad injuries in his past and got through it.

Maybe we can have sibley lad on the bench against shiffield wednesday he had been in good form for under 23 this season.

[Warren Hobhead]

There is absolutely no conspiracy. Upon Lampard’s arrival, he had to make decisions regards players, who to keep, who to recruit. From day one he made it clear that Thorne was surplus to requirements. And a few others. Originally, it was Bryson to be made surplus too, and he was to keep Butterfield. But he was told the Mount deal was possible and after Bryson impressed him in pre-season, he changed tack. He told those players he wanted to move on that they’d not be forming part of his squad, wouldn’t be training with them, wouldn’t be part of the squad photo and should look for another club. 

However, we struggled initially to move most on because we were asking for too large a contribution to players’ wages. Butterfield and Martin rejected loan moves to QPR in July. Millwall and Hull then came sniffing and both players favoured the latter. Absolutely no idea why Hull took so long on Butterfield but by all accounts, the fax sent to the FA was a minute late and thus he was left here stranded. 

Thorne’s fitness issues must have put clubs off as he was never close to leaving. But these few remaining ‘surplus’ players occasionally get a game in the U23s, train with the kids and generally are looking to get fixed up in January elsewhere. That’s why they are getting run outs (we can only play three overage each game though) in front of scouts. 

So no conspiracy. 

I’m a known admirer of Thorne and Butters. I still rank them above Johnson, Ledley, Evans and Bryson. But I’ve acceoted they aren’t going to play. 

Lampard is the man and he made his decisions. That’s football.

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

There is absolutely no conspiracy. Upon Lampard’s arrival, he had to make decisions regards players, who to keep, who to recruit. From day one he made it clear that Thorne was surplus to requirements. And a few others. Originally, it was Bryson to be made surplus too, and he was to keep Butterfield. But he was told the Mount deal was possible and after Bryson impressed him in pre-season, he changed tack. He told those players he wanted to move on that they’d not be forming part of his squad, wouldn’t be training with them, wouldn’t be part of the squad photo and should look for another club. 

However, we struggled initially to move most on because we were asking for too large a contribution to players’ wages. Butterfield and Martin rejected loan moves to QPR in July. Millwall and Hull then came sniffing and both players favoured the latter. Absolutely no idea why Hull took so long on Butterfield but by all accounts, the fax sent to the FA was a minute late and thus he was left here stranded. 

Thorne’s fitness issues must have put clubs off as he was never close to leaving. But these few remaining ‘surplus’ players occasionally get a game in the U23s, train with the kids and generally are looking to get fixed up in January elsewhere. That’s why they are getting run outs (we can only play three overage each game though) in front of scouts. 

So no conspiracy. 

I’m a known admirer of Thorne and Butters. I still rank them above Johnson, Ledley, Evans and Bryson. But I’ve acceoted they aren’t going to play. 

Lampard is the man and he made his decisions. That’s football.

If true, and no reason not to believe as you clearly must have a source, I would be interested to know FLs reasons. Someone must have advised him either re fitness issues or financial issues. I'd find it hard to believe it was on ability. 

[RoyMac5]

37 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

From day one he made it clear that Thorne was surplus to requirements. And a few others. Originally, it was Bryson to be made surplus too, and he was to keep Butterfield. But he was told the Mount deal was possible...

From day one doesn't sound like all the players had a clean slate? And if Butters was to be kept why isn't he getting a sniff now Mount is injured. ITK or just adding 2+2, the latter I think.

[Day]

36 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

And a few others. Originally, it was Bryson to be made surplus too, and he was to keep Butterfield. But he was told the Mount deal was possible and after Bryson impressed him in pre-season, he changed tack.

Lampard called you on his first day in the job to say you were part of his plans. How important was that for you?

"It was massive - and a bit surreal, seeing 'Frank Lampard' coming up on your phone and him phoning you, when you've only ever seen him on TV playing in the big games for Chelsea and England and Man City.

"There was a bit of speculation around that time that I was going to sign for Cardiff and that I wasn't wanted by Derby. So that just confirmed that the club did want me to stay and the manager wanted me to be part of his plans.

"It just makes you want to be part of it and, up until now, he's obviously been true to his word and I've played basically every game."

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/craig-bryson-Derby-cardiff-lampard-2126439