George Thorne-No longer the player he was

[Archied]

Just now, Curtains said:

You know how it’s not rocket science 

It’s lost on me b cause all I have seen is DCFC stand by George Thorne through thick and thin , support him through long term injuries and hand him a contract before there was any real evidence that he could reach the right level again ,,

so no ,,it is rocket science , can you please tell me and I’m sure others interested just how DCFC have treated George Thorne shabbily ? Ps I’m sure you won’t and will just ignore or make another silly glib comment like the above as your talking rubbish yet again and been called on it

[Curtains]

At the Lampard forum MM said other clubs need not think they are getting our players on loan on the cheap. 

In fact he seemed quite matter of fact about it  

Thats why IMO Thorne and Butterfield are stuck at Derby 

[Comrade 86]

On 10/11/2018 at 12:42, mozza said:

 

I really dont know, what i do know is, it bloody smarts, reckon I've broke it, like ive broke the little one a couple of times in the past, geez. 

 

Got a wrought iron spiral staircase and a bad single malt habit. Been here 8 years now and have broken 3 toes, all on my left foot weirdly, one of which is now turned through 90 degrees with the nail facing outwards instead of up. As an expert in these things I recommend do absolutely fook allas there's nothing you can do. Sorry Mozz but the only option is to grin and bear it or buy steel toe-capped slippers. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

At the Lampard forum MM said other clubs need not think they are getting or players on loan on thee cheap. 

Thats why IMO Thorne and Butterfield are stuck at Derby 

Except Hull were too slow with the paperwork for Butterfield...

[Archied]

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Have Derby treated Thorne shabbily- No .  They've looked after him physically.  Gave him a new contract last year despite injury concerns and i'm sure give him an excellent salary that would make my eye's water.

Have Derby disillusioned him, probably affecting his form -yes-He left a premier league club where he had just signed a 4 year contract to come here,  He was probably our best player in 15/16 (people forget that season). His form in 13/14 probably gave him a lot of options besides ourselves as well.  Now he's fit we're playing wingers in midfield ahead of him/putting 18 year olds with one league cup game on the bench and he isn't given a squad number or allowed to be in the team photo.

And too be honest the only thing he did wrong was have a bad game against Sunderland last year along with half a squad of player's who are still getting games this year.  I feel certain that if Thorne goes in the spring it won't be long till we have rabid Swansea/sheff wed or some other fans of a championship team coming on this forum telling us they had our pant's down at 500.000 (read Bryson to Cardiff last year)

 

 

Lampard was not in charge for the Sunderland game , I am 100 percent sure that if George Thorne was fit enough , showing the right attitude in training and showing any sign of the ability he had or the bust a gut determination to maximise the ability he certainly had then he would be in the reckoning to force his way into the first team ,, this is not Pearson or rowett ( ones a loon ,one no interest in ability)

[Archied]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

At the Lampard forum MM said other clubs need not think they are getting our players on loan on the cheap. 

In fact he seemed quite matter of fact about it  

Thats why IMO Thorne and Butterfield are stuck at Derby 

Still waiting on the rocket science

[ThePrisoner]

40 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Does Frank go to U23 games. 

Never seen him there

Brilliant 

[Day]

Using FFP as the reason why Thorne isn't playing makes little sense. 

If Thorne was fit and able to play at the level he is capable of he would be in this team now, not in the U23's with a contract winding down where he can walk away in May for free.

Why did we sign George Evans? Why was we looking at taking Ampadu on loan if we had a fit and ready Thorne at the club who would be worth double what we paid for him easily if he was in form.

I'm not saying FFP isn't a concern, of course it is, it's a concern for all the clubs at the top end of the table fighting for promotion, but you're trying to tell me we're keeping Thorne locked up for FFP reasons whilst spending over £10m this summer? As I say, makes little sense. The same people will be asking the club to show some ambition and splash the cash next month!

I have another theory, well it's not even a theory, but Thorne is simply not fully fit and ready to play at the level we need him to, this is the reason he's not been included in the team so far. It's ok saying he looked good for the U23s this and that week, but the U23s and Championship are two completely different levels of football.

The club will have the data from his sports bra, I wouldn't be surprised if they even had stats on how quick his hair grows the depth they go to. He might just not be ready. No financial crisis, no attitude problems, no Coronation Street style storylines, just simply not ready. I know it doesn't make for a juicy headline or stick to beat the club with but just let your minds explore that possibility. Thorne has had some serious and potentially career ending injuries, the fact he's still kicking a ball is a positive for us.

Luckily we're in a better situation than we have been in previous seasons where we have Huddlestone, Evans and even Johnson that can play DM, we have no reason to rush Thorne back into the team. I wouldn't want to see another performance like the one he put in v Sunderland to feed my nostalgic needs.

Thorne is a cracking player at this level, I'm sure he's frustrated right now and I would expect that, but Lampard is not daft, if Thorne can play at this level for us again, I'm sure he will.

As for this treating him "shabbily", go have a word with Johnathan Douglas.

[Curtains]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

Still waiting on the rocket science

Well this is how it goes. 

Hypothetically

Mel.

Frank can you work with a certain amount of players from the squad and earmark the ones surplus to requirements because of FFP.

Frank .

Ok I can do without Thorne,Martin, Butterfield and Anya because of  FFP and try and sell them .

Mel 

Do you want new players .

Frank yes I’ll bring in 3 on loan in Wilson, Mount and Tomori.

Ill sell Wiemann and bring in Evans,Holmes , Jozy, Malone ,Marriott,Waghorn ,etc. 

Ill let Lowe and Thomas and Elsink go on loan 

 

I’ll  get rid of a lad to Grimsby Vernham who I thought was decent and let Walker and Guy go who were also decent. 

Happy days. 

We are doing well but what happens when the loanees or 3 best players go back

[RamNut]

According to darren wassall GT is fully fit  and recovered

(obviously he won't be 100% match fit if he is just playing occasional u23 games)

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Using FFP as the reason why Thorne isn't playing makes little sense. 

If Thorne was fit and able to play at the level he is capable of he would be in this team now, not in the U23's with a contract winding down where he can walk away in May for free.

Why did we sign George Evans? Why was we looking at taking Ampadu on loan if we had a fit and ready Thorne at the club who would be worth double what we paid for him easily if he was in form.

I'm not saying FFP isn't a concern, of course it is, it's a concern for all the clubs at the top end of the table fighting for promotion, but you're trying to tell me we're keeping Thorne locked up for FFP reasons whilst spending over £10m this summer? As I say, makes little sense. The same people will be asking the club to show some ambition and splash the cash next month!

I have another theory, well it's not even a theory, but Thorne is simply not fully fit and ready to play at the level we need him to, this is the reason he's not been included in the team so far. It's ok saying he looked good for the U23s this and that week, but the U23s and Championship are two completely different levels of football.

The club will have the data from his sports bra, I wouldn't be surprised if they even had stats on how quick his hair grows the depth they go to. He might just not be ready. No financial crisis, no attitude problems, no Coronation Street style storylines, just simply not ready. I know it doesn't make for a juicy headline or stick to beat the club with but just let your minds explore that possibility. Thorne has had some serious and potentially career ending injuries, the fact he's still kicking a ball is a positive for us.

Luckily we're in a better situation than we have been in previous seasons where we have Huddlestone, Evans and even Johnson that can play DM, we have no reason to rush Thorne back into the team. I wouldn't want to see another performance like the one he put in v Sunderland to feed my nostalgic needs.

Thorne is a cracking player at this level, I'm sure he's frustrated right now and I would expect that, but Lampard is not daft, if Thorne can play at this level for us again, I'm sure he will.

As for this treating him "shabbily", go have a word with Johnathan Douglas.

It my opinion and I do believe the goose will come home to roost. 

[Archied]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Well this is how it goes. 

Hypothetically

Mel.

Frank can you work with a certain amount of players from the squad and earmark the ones surplus to requirements because of FFP.

Frank .

Ok I can do without Thorne,Martin, Butterfield and Anya because of  FFP and try and sell them .

Mel 

Do you want new players .

Frank yes I’ll bring in 3 on loan in Wilson, Mount and Tomori.

Ill sell Wiemann and bring in Evans,Holmes , Jozy, Malone ,Marriott,Waghorn ,etc. 

Ill let Lowe and Thomas and Elsink go on loan 

 

I’ll  get rid of a lad to Grimsby Vernham who I thought was decent and let Walker and Guy go who were also decent. 

Happy days. 

We are doing well but what happens when the loanees or 3 best players go back

Err nope ,, not hypothically , how have DCFC treated George Thorne shabbily , I say that from the evidence of a club that has stood by a multiple long term injury sufferer even to the extent of giving him a new contract before he has properly returned to any consistent level ,, I don’t say on some made up hypothecal thesis dreamed up in my head because I’m miffed that a fav player of mine can’t get in the first team 

so again I ask just Exactly what in concrete terms have DCFC done that constitutes treating George Thorne shabbily , if you can’t back up your statement then just say so and we can move on 

[Archied]

13 minutes ago, Curtains said:

It my opinion and I do believe the goose will come home to roost. 

Fair play Eric ,, when the seagulls follow the ,,, oh never mind ,it’s best just to be cryptic and try to appear secretly in the know when you can’t  back up your claims with facts

[MuespachRam]

Im not the best person to ask about this because as I have said before I don't actually think Thorne is that good..... but one thing I would throw out there... would a fully fit in his best form George Thorne even get into this side?

[Day]

12 minutes ago, Curtains said:

It my opinion and I do believe the goose will come home to roost. 

That's fine, but makes little sense. Nor does listing both Butterfield and Thorne in our current best midfield after our first defeat in 7 having not played a minute between them.

Let's be honest though, it doesn't really matter what team Lampard puts out you would argue another player should be playing. In other posts today you was suggesting he was naive for playing Bogle over Wisdom, so that's 3 players. 

[angieram]

10 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Well this is how it goes. 

Hypothetically

Mel.

Frank can you work with a certain amount of players from the squad and earmark the ones surplus to requirements because of FFP.

Frank .

Ok I can do without Thorne,Martin, Butterfield and Anya because of  FFP and try and sell them .

Mel 

Do you want new players .

Frank yes I’ll bring in 3 on loan in Wilson, Mount and Tomori.

Ill sell Wiemann and bring in Evans,Holmes , Jozy, Malone ,Marriott,Waghorn ,etc. 

Ill let Lowe and Thomas and Elsink go on loan 

 

I’ll  get rid of a lad to Grimsby Vernham who I thought was decent and let Walker and Guy go who were also decent. 

Happy days. 

We are doing well but what happens when the loanees or 3 best players go back

Excuse me Curtains, but last season when some of us were wanting to see a few of the young lads given a go, you argued vociferously against it. I know, because you called me and @B4ev6is out on it on several occasions. 

Of the young players we have let go, Zanzala is the one doing best so far, who I think you didn't rate? 

I think Lowe, Thomas and Elsnik will benefit from their loan as they are getting great experience.

We can't just keep adding player after player to the group, which I think we all agree was getting too large, without letting some others go. 

If a player isn't part of our plans, they may go on to have an equally good (if not better) career elsewhere. This might be because they didn't quite fit our style at the time, or they may get a fillip from a fresh challenge.

All these things are ok, I think? It's hard when your particular favourites aren't getting a look in (I know, from Chris Martin) but it's just part of football.

I think some of our singings (Evans, Holmes for example) are there for when the loanees go back. Although we can always have a few more!

[VulcanRam]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Mate I’m not on the wind up. 

You think playing 2 wingers essentially with Huddlestone is a good midfield.

Pull the other leg. 

No I don't think that necessarily. 

[Curtains]

 

[Curtains]

38 minutes ago, Archied said:

Fair play Eric ,, when the seagulls follow the ,,, oh never mind ,it’s best just to be cryptic and try to appear secretly in the know when you can’t  back up your claims with facts

Secretly in the know. 

No just pure speculation .

DCFC is a closed shop. 

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I agree with @G STAR RAM on this one

It suggests a decision was made that he's not good enough BEFORE he's even fit...

If he's not fit then how do you know if he's good enough? If you've already decided he's not enough and want shot then why bother waiting until he's fit?

 

I must stress, I was merely speculating... hence the question mark at the end of each of my sentences.

If indeed an imminent sale is on the cards, perhaps they want him fit to maximise his potential value?

One thing I can guarantee, is that to continue in this thread, I'd have to continue to speculate.  I have absolutely no knowledge of what FL/DCFC's thoughts and plans are, nor the reasoning behind them. 

Personally, I'd prefer an outcome where said subject does indeed get himself "first team fit", and somehow manages to get himself back in the starting line up, and back to his best.  However, I do fear that my hopes are being governed by my spectacles being of a rosy hue, unfortunately.