AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Anon said: As Peter Shilton said in his objection to this, it's about the precedent it sets rather than the incident in isolation. Only 5 players have ever won over 100 caps for England, what kind of precedent is being set ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Only 5 players have ever won over 100 caps for England, what kind of precedent is being set ? That a retired player can commandeer an international fixture to boost their brand/ego so long as their profile is deemed significant enough by the FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Anon said: That a retired player can commandeer an international fixture to boost their brand/ego so long as their profile is deemed significant enough by the FA. That’s your opinion behind the decision though, and even if correct it’s still one that isn’t going to happen that often. When is another player going to get over 100 caps and doesn’t have the opportunity to get the accolades be invited back, realistically another 10, 20, 30 years even ? Ive still not seen one good reason given why this shouldn’t happen, and what damage it actually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Why the focus on the cap? He already has 120, he is not coming back for a competitive match, he is just using this as an opportunity to say goodbye, the FA to recognise his contribution and use the proceeds of the game for good causes. I still can’t see the problem, why not give this opportunity to one of our best ever players to represent the country. He's had plenty of opportunity to represent the country. I'm not sure what your point is. The opportunity to say 'goodbye'? That's just sentimental. There is nothing whatsoever to prevent the FA from donating the proceeds of the game to charity. They don't need to give Rooney playing time for that. So what are the motives of the FA here? And who next? Who else was denied an opportunity to say goodbye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, AdamRam said: That’s your opinion behind the decision though, and even if correct it’s still one that isn’t going to happen that often. When is another player going to get over 100 caps and doesn’t have the opportunity to get the accolades be invited back, realistically another 10, 20, 30 years even ? Ive still not seen one good reason given why this shouldn’t happen, and what damage it actually does. I'm not sure what opportunity you think he was denied. He retired from international football. He was even asked to come out of retirement by Southgate but declined. Doesn't sound like he lacked the opportunity to get the accolades or say goodbye (although I don't know who he would be saying goodbye to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: He's had plenty of opportunity to represent the country. I'm not sure what your point is. The opportunity to say 'goodbye'? That's just sentimental. There is nothing whatsoever to prevent the FA from donating the proceeds of the game to charity. They don't need to give Rooney playing time for that. So what are the motives of the FA here? And who next? Who else was denied an opportunity to say goodbye? I guess the motives are that this is a friendly, probably not much interest in the game l, and the PR team has come up with this. What is wrong with being sentimental ? Is what most testimonials are for, giving fans the opportunity to go and say thanks for his contribution to the team. Not sure by who else has had the opportunity, when someone passes his record haul of caps, they will could well be offered a game as well in their honour, not a bad incentive really is it. Its a friendly game, against the USA, he retired because he didn’t beleive he could contribute at the top of his game on all levels, for me he deserves the recognition he is going to get for being one of England’s finest ever players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I'm not sure what opportunity you think he was denied. He retired from international football. He was even asked to come out of retirement by Southgate but declined. Doesn't sound like he lacked the opportunity to get the accolades or say goodbye (although I don't know who he would be saying goodbye to). Fans who appreciate him, you may not be one and decide not to go, however there will be lot that will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, AdamRam said: I guess the motives are that this is a friendly, probably not much interest in the game l, and the PR team has come up with this. What is wrong with being sentimental ? Is what most testimonials are for, giving fans the opportunity to go and say thanks for his contribution to the team. Not sure by who else has had the opportunity, when someone passes his record haul of caps, they will could well be offered a game as well in their honour, not a bad incentive really is it. Its a friendly game, against the USA, he retired because he didn’t beleive he could contribute at the top of his game on all levels, for me he deserves the recognition he is going to get for being one of England’s finest ever players. This isn't a testimonial. It's a full international, for which participants will be awarded caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, AdamRam said: I guess the motives are that this is a friendly, probably not much interest in the game l, and the PR team has come up with this. What is wrong with being sentimental ? Is what most testimonials are for, giving fans the opportunity to go and say thanks for his contribution to the team. Not sure by who else has had the opportunity, when someone passes his record haul of caps, they will could well be offered a game as well in their honour, not a bad incentive really is it. Its a friendly game, against the USA, he retired because he didn’t beleive he could contribute at the top of his game on all levels, for me he deserves the recognition he is going to get for being one of England’s finest ever players. International friendlies are not the same as domestic friendlies. Despite being classed as friendlies they are far more serious because they affect rankings and career statistics. Rooney isn't even the record cap holder. If we're choosing to differentiate between 'keepers and outfield players, why stop there? Why not give Ashley Cole a chance to be appreciated for being the most capped defender? Why not invite Becks back to bask in the appreciation of being the most capped midfielder? Rooney is already recognised as one of England's finest ever players. I don't see why he needs to run around on the field in an England kit to prove this. There could be a presentation at half time or before the game, or they could've arranged an England XI vs the world exhibition game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 49 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Only 5 players have ever won over 100 caps for England, what kind of precedent is being set ? How many of the other four got an England testimonial after they'd retired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 36 minutes ago, AdamRam said: That’s your opinion behind the decision though, and even if correct it’s still one that isn’t going to happen that often. When is another player going to get over 100 caps and doesn’t have the opportunity to get the accolades be invited back, realistically another 10, 20, 30 years even ? Ive still not seen one good reason given why this shouldn’t happen, and what damage it actually does. With all due respect, you have seen good reasons, you've just either chosen to ignore them or you disagree with them. To say you haven't seen them is your choice. I've seen good reasons on this thread alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Anon said: International friendlies are not the same as domestic friendlies. Despite being classed as friendlies they are far more serious because they affect rankings and career statistics. Rooney isn't even the record cap holder. If we're choosing to differentiate between 'keepers and outfield players, why stop there? Why not give Ashley Cole a chance to be appreciated for being the most capped defender? Why not invite Becks back to bask in the appreciation of being the most capped midfielder? Rooney is already recognised as one of England's finest ever players. I don't see why he needs to run around on the field in an England kit to prove this. There could be a presentation at half time or before the game, or they could've arranged an England XI vs the world exhibition game. Ok record goalscorer, as I said, don’t see the problem it’s a one off, never happened before and won’t happen again, I think people are going off on one and I haven’t really seen a reason for this. It’s raising the profile for a one off game, where the money is going to a good cause, appearing at half time isn't going to give the same media hype as him playing and neither is an exhibition match. Wow Rooney gets a cap out of it, he now has 120 instead of 119, Wilfred Zaha has 2 caps and plays for a different country ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: With all due respect, you have seen good reasons, you've just either chosen to ignore them or you disagree with them. To say you haven't seen them is your choice. I've seen good reasons on this thread alone. With all due respect, my opinion is that they are not good reasons. Doesn’t make my opinion right of course. Thanks for you reply though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: How many of the other four got an England testimonial after they'd retired? Don’t know, had they all got one though I also wouldn’t have seen the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Ok record goalscorer, as I said, don’t see the problem it’s a one off, never happened before and won’t happen again, I think people are going off on one and I haven’t really seen a reason for this. It’s raising the profile for a one off game, where the money is going to a good cause, appearing at half time isn't going to give the same media hype as him playing and neither is an exhibition match. Wow Rooney gets a cap out of it, he now has 120 instead of 119, Wilfred Zaha has 2 caps and plays for a different country ? The last soccer aid match raised 5.5 million for Unicef. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/6497733/soccer-aid-money-raised-unicef-old-trafford-england-kit/ The England USA game is "expected to raise as much as £500,000 for a number of children's charities." https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/wayne-rooney-to-captain-england-13531976 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Still don’t see the problem. He’s still class, and will probably hang in a hat trick. People come back out of retirement all the time. So he’s doing it as a one off and has said so. So what. As a competitive team, this doesn’t necessarily weaken us. All it’s really done is not allow someone else, who might be the future Rooney, 90 minutes to continue their development. In the grand scheme of things, that’s not really going to effect much. The problem people are having is that Rooney always polarised opinions. I remember a thread on here when he broke the record with the majority of people saying it doesn’t really count, cos he didn’t score many in tournaments, he’s good, but he’s no jimmy greaves. Give the guy a break. I wouldn’t go gay for him (I would for Lampard, but that’s a different thread), but he’s been a great servant to the England national team, he is the record goal scorer, whether you like it or not, and one more game for old times sake isn’t going to kill anyone. If we were dragging jimmy greaves out of retirement for one last cap, then I might take issue with it. But Rooney is still a top class player, eligible for selection. Everybody calm down. To put it another way: Top class English player in England selection shocker!! Its not really a news story is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Anon said: The last soccer aid match raised 5.5 million for Unicef. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/6497733/soccer-aid-money-raised-unicef-old-trafford-england-kit/ The England USA game is "expected to raise as much as £500,000 for a number of children's charities." https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/wayne-rooney-to-captain-england-13531976 **I'm using your post Anon, but of course none of this is aimed at you pal.** Of which, almost 1/3rd will be spent on further fundraising activities, another 5-7.5% will go on salaries. Do people realise these charities pay "telesales" companies almost a third of anything they raise? Save the Children International (1bn) and Save the Children UK (400m) raised 1.4 BILLION in donations alone last year, the child poverty figures in the UK are at their highest level ever. The donation (and legacies) figures don't represent total turnover as the charities also have "service" arms and investment portfolios. Save the Children has 375 employees earning above £60k per year, the CEO is on just short of £200k. Ignoring the big wigs and just looking at a flat rate of 60k, its £22.5million on managerial salaries..... Foundations? Look at the personal benefits of running a private foundation before getting all giddy about it being a game for charity. I'm sure Wayne has good intentions but the charities are failing I'm afraid. He'd be better off using the 500k of his own cash and lining up 170 families and giving them 3 grand cash each A £60 a week, that would help them directly and lift 350 kids above the poverty line, instead of sending them to foodbanks. Instead he's using a game of football where ordinary folk will cough up for tickets supporting his cause but have no say in where or how that cash gets used. As for using an England game as a vehicle for a players private foundation, staggering. Does this mean the players called up will all be donating their appearance fee to his foundation irrespective of whether they "believe" in it or not? If they wanted to give him a goodbye game they should have made it an exhibition match. I'm genuinely shocked there hasn't been a massive outcry over this. The only way the public can ever really say goodbye to an International player is if the manager at the time announces it's his last cap. I loved him as a player, I still like him a lot. I already said goodbye once he left to go the US and retired from International football on his own accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, AdamRam said: Only 5 players have ever won over 100 caps for England, what kind of precedent is being set ? It's 9 players: Wright, Lampard, Charlton, Cole, Moore, Gerrard, Beckham, Rooney, Shilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Anon said: As Peter Shilton said in his objection to this, it's about the precedent it sets rather than the incident in isolation. Football is forever setting new precedents - this is hardly an earth-shattering one is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: He'd be better off using the 500k of his own cash and lining up 170 families and giving them 3 grand cash each A £60 a week, that would help them directly and lift 350 kids above the poverty line, instead of sending them to foodbanks. Instead he's using a game of football where ordinary folk will cough up for tickets supporting his cause but have no say in where or how that cash gets used. As for using an England game as a vehicle for a players private foundation, staggering. Absolutely spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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