Stive Pesley Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, BathRam72 said: It is widely known that several persons try to get to the UK because they feel they can get a better way of life and our benefits system allows them a good life. Several = not many. And you know what - who cares? In the scheme of things - if being on benefits here, a foreign country where you don't speak the language, emancipated from your home land with no real sense of belonging is a "better way of life" than staying where you are. Then I'm proud to live in a country that welcomes those people. Isn't a sense of striving for something better a value to proud of? My old neighbour never used to lock his back door. When I asked him if he wasn't worried about getting burgled his response was - there are thousands of houses in Derby and a quarter of a million people. There are probably only a handful of those desperate enough to turn to crime. If they happen to find my house unlocked and take my TV then they obviously need it a lot more than I do. I can just buy another one and be thankful that I'm not in a position where I have to be the one doing the stealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Several = not many. And you know what - who cares? In the scheme of things - if being on benefits here, a foreign country where you don't speak the language, emancipated from your home land with no real sense of belonging is a "better way of life" than staying where you are. Then I'm proud to live in a country that welcomes those people. Isn't a sense of striving for something better a value to proud of? My old neighbour never used to lock his back door. When I asked him if he wasn't worried about getting burgled his response was - there are thousands of houses in Derby and a quarter of a million people. There are probably only a handful of those desperate enough to turn to crime. If they happen to find my house unlocked and take my TV then they obviously need it a lot more than I do. I can just buy another one and be thankful that I'm not in a position where I have to be the one doing the stealing I was referring to the difference between real refugees and economic migrants. I am not against anyone who has a claim and can come in and improve the economy at all. All this started because someone disagreed with me offering food instead of money ( for my own beliefs) I only pointed out the difference between refugees and economic migrants. But hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: I only pointed out the difference between refugees and economic migrants. But hey. It's not a value free observation though, is it. You would only make such a comment if you believe that some people are deserving and others are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Lambchop said: It's not a value free observation though, is it. You would only make such a comment if you believe that some people are deserving and others are not. OMG. There is no talking to you is there? If you care to look back at all my posts I was giving my opinion on why I would give food and not money to the homeless. However this is not good enough for you and you chose to preach why (I didn't). I also kind of agreed with you when I suggested there are plenty of empty military establishments that with a little TLC could be used as an interim to house these people and build their self esteem. You chose to pick out the one line you wanted to argue about. I also merely pointed out the difference between a genuine refugee and an economic migrant. Again you get on your high horse. Clearly this is not a debate it is your opinion and no-one elses. I will there for get on with my work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: Clearly this is not a debate it is your opinion and no-one elses You have stated your opinion and I have responded to it. If you don't want to engage with that response, then that's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 42 minutes ago, Lambchop said: It's not a value free observation though, is it. You would only make such a comment if you believe that some people are deserving and others are not. How is pointing out the difference in definition between Economic Migrant and Refugee making a judgement on who is more deserving?. They are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 On a serious note... does anyone know the address of that old fella with the unlocked door and the spare telly... I think mine's on the blink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretsquirrel Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 If you have a few quid spare-https://www.crisis.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Lambchop said: If there are people still on the street then the system isn't working. When the numbers are increasing as drastically as they are, then it is failing, and failing badly. I presume you mean hostels, and not hotels, but hostels are not the long term answer. We need to address the problems which lead to homelessness in the first place; lack of affordable housing, high rents, insecure work, stagnant wages, the punitive benefits system etc etc. If they are the reasons why are there significantly less homeless now than the beginning of the century during a relatively prosperous era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, BathRam72 said: OMG. There is no talking to you is there? If you care to look back at all my posts I was giving my opinion on why I would give food and not money to the homeless. However this is not good enough for you and you chose to preach why (I didn't). I also kind of agreed with you when I suggested there are plenty of empty military establishments that with a little TLC could be used as an interim to house these people and build their self esteem. You chose to pick out the one line you wanted to argue about. I also merely pointed out the difference between a genuine refugee and an economic migrant. Again you get on your high horse. Clearly this is not a debate it is your opinion and no-one elses. I will there for get on with my work. Welcome to our world.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Welcome to our world.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lambchop said: So that's me on top and you underneath.. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Angry Ram said: So that's me on top and you underneath.. Nailed it. You should be so lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Well have no smutty talk on here! I beg of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 hours ago, BathRam72 said: I was referring to the difference between real refugees and economic migrants. I am not against anyone who has a claim and can come in and improve the economy at all. All this started because someone disagreed with me offering food instead of money ( for my own beliefs) I only pointed out the difference between refugees and economic migrants. But hey. I believe you are just as right in the way you feel comfortable giving , we are all different , there just as much chance that the person you offer food or drink to may be really uplifted that someone takes the time to care about their well being rather than just throw a few quid and walk past as there is that they may be offended that you are taking robbing their self esteem ,so for me you carry on doing what you feel is right , refugee or economic migrant ? Tough one for me that ,, my parents migrated to the midlands when the west of Scotland’s industries were decimated in the 60 s , I move to london from the midlands many years later for similar reasons , I can’t find it in me to not understand what drives people to desperately seek to give themselves and their children the best life possible ,, my personal experience in people I have met is that economic migrants don’t come to live off benefits but rather work all the hours god sends and I can only respect that but hey that’s just me I’m a strange hotch potch of opinions and views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Lambchop said: You should be so lucky! You'll be making @CornwallRam jealous flirting like this!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Righteous? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just back from London. It's obvious that there are huge divisions which aren't being addressed, two guys walking past a homeless woman while talking about their investment management company. They didn't make a point of pretending to ignore the woman, they looked at her and just walked on. Not sure what the answer is. On the point of refugees and economic migration there is a host of literature exploring how the narrative of definitions has been managed terms of these. And who benefits by these definitions. And who doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 47 minutes ago, Lambchop said: We’ll have no psychobabble on here, this is a local forum for local people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Personally I find it really astonishing in this wider discussion, that by implication, doing a good deed can be considered as somehow doing the wrong thing; really, really astonishing. Maybe if the world was full of selfish bar stewards, that walked on by, such wider discussion wouldn’t be happening. The last time I gave a street beggar food they thanked me. In another country, Rome last week, I witnessed so many beggars around popular locations. One bedraggled female, was face down in the middle of the pavement, looking at dirty paving stones, in a gusty thorough fare. One plastic cup in front of her face, she was bedraggled and dirty. For several minutes I contemplated all the people walking past what other people must think; that cup had just a few Euro’s in. Finally, I came to the conclusion she was clearly living a pitiful existence, no “normal” person (disclaimer sanity judgement), would live that way. I felt so sorry for her I stuck a couple of euros in on this occasion but I’d also have given her food. What does it matter, she was in need of either or both. End of debate for me, the world had failed this pitiful human being. Any genuine street beggar, that has been reduced to that, needs help in any shape or form; sorry I just don’t get the you can only help one way discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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