Archied Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Lambchop said: Well yes, and I am explaining why I think it's right to give money to the homeless. That not the bit I disagree with , I respect that bit , the bit I disagree with is telling others that the way they give or want to give is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 On 04/11/2018 at 08:59, Lambchop said: In doing that you take away their agency and any shred of self respect they might have left. Give them money. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/why-you-should-give-money-directly-and-unconditionally-homeless-people#amp A tally speaking to them and asking what they prefer would give you a better insight than some article (I notice that the same outlet have released the exact opposite as well!!!) one guy that I was talking to said he didn't mind, he appreciated anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Paul71 said: Its opinion though surely. Never said otherwise. 1 hour ago, Archied said: That not the bit I disagree with , I respect that bit , the bit I disagree with is telling others that the way they give or want to give is wrong Offered for discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 On 04/11/2018 at 19:59, Lambchop said: In doing that you take away their agency and any shred of self respect they might have left. Give them money. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/why-you-should-give-money-directly-and-unconditionally-homeless-people#amp There’s a massive risk of that, that’s true. If I’m not too pushed for time, I usually try to engage them in conversation as I walk with them to get them some food. I did, years ago, just hand over cash but stopped doing that because, in Melbourne, we had an issue with fake homeless people who were earning a tidy income from the practice of begging. Before you might think it sounds like something of an urban myth, I remember running into two of the more prominent ‘homeless’ beggars - an older lady and a scruffy elderly man (with a BO problem and a tendency to become abusive if you knocked him back) - in a mate of mine’s apartment building (in one of our more trendy, gentrified inner city suburbs; probably the equivalent of say Chelsea). Where they both lived very, very comfortably. I’ve found that many homeless (not all, by any means) seem to appreciate the respect and concern of genuinely engaging with them. The key is not to lecture them, or just speak AT them; I probably do feel strongly a “there but for the grace of god...” when I see people in such circumstances. The other point I’d add is that, if you start by offering to purchase food rather than just give over cash, it’s critical not to just stick to buying them meals if you get to know particular individuals over time. That IS disrespectful and would become damaging in precisely the manner you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 hours ago, rynny said: A tally speaking to them and asking what they prefer would give you a better insight than some article I base my opinion on a couple of decades working in mental health, which has considerable crossover, and what I would actually want myself, if I were in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, EssendonRam said: I’ve found that many homeless (not all, by any means) seem to appreciate the respect and concern of genuinely engaging with them. The key is not to lecture them, or just speak AT them; I probably do feel strongly a “there but for the grace of god...” when I see people in such circumstances. It's just about recognising and acknowledging the other person's humanity, surely. No one wants to see themselves as a charity case and, absolutely, anyone could find themselves in those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Can i offer an acceptable response to everyone. I you are worries about your money going on the 'wrong' thing, why not engage the person in conversation and ask them IF they want something to eat and WHAT they want to eat. They have conversation, food and a choice and you are happy with the application of your generosity and concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Lambchop said: Never said otherwise. Offered for discussion... Fair enough ,just didn’t come across that way ,,what follows is probably a bit too political but it’s my belief that the greatest problem causer we have in our society is that we don’t start with the basic first principle that everyone has a right to a safe secure decent home ,, so many problems flow from not having that principle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Lambchop said: what I would actually want myself, if I were in that situation. Well what you want will be different to another, like I said, have a conversation and ask them what they would prefer, you may be shocked at how many would appreciate a sandwich or a hot drink, even a packet of crisp would be met with great appreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 An old school friend of mine started a campaign in Torquay (where he now lives) outing many fake beggers and homeless people as frauds and liars. It didn’t make him very popular with some do gooders. But surely this helps the real people who need the charity of strangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 14 hours ago, Lambchop said: I think the point about giving money is to respect the person's autonomy. Taking that little bit of freedom away from them when they are in extremis could potentially cause more harm than another drink, or another hit, if that's what they choose to spend it on. Crushing lack of self respect is not to be ignored as one of the barriers which makes it so difficult for people to seek help, or get back on their feet. Treating someone as an autonomous individual is better than treating them as someone who has lost the right to make their own decisions, even in cases of addiction. I think it is a tough one. I for one (personally) would and have given a hot drink and food (after asking the person what they would like) Knowing I gave them something that will probably keep them alive a little longer. I would hate to give some cash and find out they had overdosed that night. I am not saying which is right or wrong, just my personal choice/thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 When I see a homeless person it always makes me sad. Because I can't give money to every one I see, I nominated a local homeless charity as our charity of the year at work. We raised over £11,000 which will be spent not only on accommodation but on opportunities to build self esteem and get into work. Our natural inclination is to help. Now we have to feel bad about the ones we don't help, whether the money we give might be misused and whether in giving the money we might be causing offence. All of this linked to a good deed. Is it any wonder we are all suffering from anxiety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Maybe all the hostels are full? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Archied said: it’s my belief that the greatest problem causer we have in our society is that we don’t start with the basic first principle that everyone has a right to a safe secure decent home ,, so many problems flow from not having that principle Absolutely. There was a program a few years ago where people from different cultures did an exchange, and lived each other's lifestyles for a while. The people from a tribal culture, rain forest, I think, were appalled at the homelessness in Britain. They couldn't understand how we could abandon anyone to such a plight. In their world, if someone needed a home, everyone got together to build them one. Creating an insecure workforce is a deliberate policy though, when your priority is cheap labour and maximised profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boycie said: Maybe all the hostels are full? The number of people forced onto the streets has increased drastically, combined with cuts to basic services and changes to the benefit system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Boycie said: An old school friend of mine started a campaign in Torquay (where he now lives) outing many fake beggers and homeless people as frauds and liars. What a see you next Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Absolutely. There was a program a few years ago where people from different cultures did an exchange, and lived each other's lifestyles for a while. The people from a tribal culture, rain forest, I think, were appalled at the homelessness in Britain. They couldn't understand how we could abandon anyone to such a plight. In their world, if someone needed a home, everyone got together to build them one. Creating an insecure workforce is a deliberate policy though, when your priority is cheap labour and maximised profit. Sadly, land in the rain forest is probably plentiful and free. I do agree that there are plenty of old military units that are sat empty, with a little TLC the accommodation could be used as an interim to getting people inside and building their self esteem. etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: Sadly, land in the rain forest is probably plentiful and free. We have ample wealth and resources to house everyone if we chose to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Lambchop said: What a see you next Tuesday. In what way? He proved some people where not in fact homeless and taking donations away from actual rough sleepers. What a horrible man yeah ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, Lambchop said: We have ample wealth and resources to house everyone if we chose to do it. I love how you quote the one liners with out mentioning the rest of someones post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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