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Tom Lawrence - Fan criticism


JoeDerby

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1 minute ago, 86 points said:

I've been a pretty staunch supporter where Tom's concerned and remain so. I think he has bags of ability and I also believe it'll click at some point but I do understand folks' frustrations as he remains maddeningly inconsistent. Hopefully Frank and Jody can get him playing the way many on here feel he can or I fear his not insignificant transfer fee will become something of a millstone. 

Well put, virtually my thoughts. Like Tom but accept he’s frustrating in that his decision making needs to be better, coupled with awareness of team mates.

Work in progress for me but the potential is there if Frank and Jody can encourage and educate him.

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1 hour ago, Ellafella said:

...I learned at age 10 that football is a passing game in which team “a” by possessing and passing the ball, scores goals. When I played, I mostly passed the ball; occasionally I took on a player and beat him, before passing the ball to a team mate. 

I came across players who, having received the ball would try and beat 2-3 players. Occasionally they did, but mostly they lost the ball. 

Football has the same principles whether it’s Sunday League or Premiership. And the same kinds of players: some “team” players, and some “individualists”. Give me 11 team players any day...

Do you think it’s about learning to pass at 22? 

Give me a Hazqrd, Messi and sterling every day of the week, you need a blend of both players who can pick a pass out and those who can create something by beating a player and getting to the byline to get a cross in.

I don’t suppose any managers you played under gave you any instructions like trying to beat a player to create space, as it recent games we have been crying out for a player that can do that, playing the safe option isn’t always the best one.

 

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3 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Give me a Hazqrd, Messi and sterling every day of the week, you need a blend of both players who can pick a pass out and those who can create something by beating a player and getting to the byline to get a cross in.

I don’t suppose any managers you played under gave you any instructions like trying to beat a player to create space, as it recent games we have been crying out for a player that can do that, playing the safe option isn’t always the best one.

 

...playing a pass is not tantamount to the “safe option”...sometimes a pass involves far more skill than beating a player...think George Thorne threading the ball through 5 Doncaster defenders for Jonny Russell to dink it over the keeper. Give me one defense-splitting pass versus a player beating 2 defenders only for the cross to go out for a goal kick any day...

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1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

...playing a pass is not tantamount to the “safe option”...sometimes a pass involves far more skill than beating a player...think George Thorne threading the ball through 5 Doncaster defenders for Jonny Russell to dink it over the keeper. Give me one defense-splitting pass versus a player beating 2 defenders only for the cross to go out for a goal kick any day...

And if Lawerence played as a DM you would be right, but he doesn’t.

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24 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Give me a Hazqrd, Messi and sterling every day of the week, you need a blend of both players who can pick a pass out and those who can create something by beating a player and getting to the byline to get a cross in.

I don’t suppose any managers you played under gave you any instructions like trying to beat a player to create space, as it recent games we have been crying out for a player that can do that, playing the safe option isn’t always the best one.

 

Hazard and Messi are wonderfully unselfish 

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22 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Give me a Hazqrd, Messi and sterling every day of the week, you need a blend of both players who can pick a pass out and those who can create something by beating a player and getting to the byline to get a cross in.

I don’t suppose any managers you played under gave you any instructions like trying to beat a player to create space, as it recent games we have been crying out for a player that can do that, playing the safe option isn’t always the best one.

 

But Messi, Hazard and Sterling make unselfish runs, or dribble past opponents to open up space for their teammates.

When Lawrence goes past one, he wants to go past another and go alone. He’s such a selfish player, who uses teammates as decoys to dribble himself.

When does he ever actually dribble to the benefit of the team. He doesn’t try and hit the byline to cross it, he always wants to cut inside and shoot himself.

I have no problems with players who aren’t afraid to hold onto it and run at defenders, as long as they are doing it for the right reasons.

Tommy Smith used to dribble a lot. But he did so with the purpose of creating space to pass or cross it to Rasiak.

 

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9 minutes ago, cannable said:

Hazard and Messi are wonderfully unselfish 

True, I was highlighting though that beating a player is not a bad thing. I could have picked Ronaldo for example, or many others that down the years have been selfish.

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I’ll be honest if I was TL reading this I would think “f***” the lot of you, what a depressing post and what a way to help the lad push onto the level we hope he can reach by starting a contributing to a thread where the main aim is to slate one of our young(ish) Players.

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10 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

But Messi, Hazard and Sterling make unselfish runs, or dribble past opponents to open up space for their teammates.

When Lawrence goes past one, he wants to go past another and go alone. He’s such a selfish player, who uses teammates as decoys to dribble himself.

When does he ever actually dribble to the benefit of the team. He doesn’t try and hit the byline to cross it, he always wants to cut inside and shoot himself.

I have no problems with players who aren’t afraid to hold onto it and run at defenders, as long as they are doing it for the right reasons.

Tommy Smith used to dribble a lot. But he did so with the purpose of creating space to pass or cross it to Rasiak.

 

I would agree with inconsistency, and to a certain extend that he doesn’t look up enough and release the ball earlier. I get that, however the point the poster was making was that 11 passers of the ball are better than having someone who wants to beat a couple of players, which is what I was replying to.

Lawrence though had the ability to both beat a man, and to play someone in, imo he is no worse than any other player we have playing that position, and for me if he can produce one bit of skill that results in a game, I can look by his other faults.

Could he be better at it, of course, is he as bad as some people make out, well I’ll let FL and one of the best wingers of my generation answer that.

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26 minutes ago, Derbyram1 said:

I’ll be honest if I was TL reading this I would think “f***” the lot of you, what a depressing post and what a way to help the lad push onto the level we hope he can reach by starting a contributing to a thread where the main aim is to slate one of our young(ish) Players.

Firstly, if I was Tom Lawrence I wouldn't be looking to dcfcfans to have my ego stroked or look at how fans are assessing me. I'd know whether I'm playing well or not and if I'm playing badly i'd be fine reading criticism (not abuse) and my goal would be to shut people up. 

Secondly, when did this stop being a forum to chat about player/team performances etc and become some sort of direct team talk to the players. Is this forum now the place to come and show your support? Maybe just have a load of threads where we all praise everything Derby County and compete to heap the most praise on every part of the club? 

This is a discussion about his performance. If you think he's played well then you're welcome to say so. But aren't people welcome to say that he doesn't play well?

To be brutally honest I don't care what Tom Lawrence thinks of the forum and I don't he cares what we think of him. But I support Derby County only. Not Tom Lawrence or Richard Keogh or any one singly person unconditionally. Only Derby. I'm not outside his house booing him. I'm on dcfcfans saying that he's a selfish player who plays like he puts himself before the team. And if I was a forward keep getting ignored like our other forwards get ignored he'd hear harsher words than on this thread which has been pretty fair, insult free and calm

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36 minutes ago, Derbyram1 said:

I’ll be honest if I was TL reading this I would think “f***” the lot of you, what a depressing post and what a way to help the lad push onto the level we hope he can reach by starting a contributing to a thread where the main aim is to slate one of our young(ish) Players.

Nobody on this forum can help Lawrence ,Lampard can advise but its up to him to improve.You seem to think because he plays for our team he,s above criticism maybe Keogh will have a word as to the reality of being constantly slated and still producing your best on the field.

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2 minutes ago, CROSSWORD said:

Nobody on this forum can help Lawrence ,Lampard can advise but its up to him to improve.You seem to think because he plays for our team he,s above criticism maybe Keogh will have a word as to the reality of being constantly slated and still producing your best on the field.

Now if that post was about Keogh then I'd agree. He's been insulted and mocked. He's had more than criticism about his performance aimed at him. He's had people go the extra yards to try and effect his confidence etc. 

But this thread on Lawrence is nothing like any of that. 

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4 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Firstly, if I was Tom Lawrence I wouldn't be looking to dcfcfans to have my ego stroked or look at how fans are assessing me. I'd know whether I'm playing well or not and if I'm playing badly i'd be fine reading criticism (not abuse) and my goal would be to shut people up. 

Secondly, when did this stop being a forum to chat about player/team performances etc and become some sort of direct team talk to the players. Is this forum now the place to come and show your support? Maybe just have a load of threads where we all praise everything Derby County and compete to heap the most praise on every part of the club? 

This is a discussion about his performance. If you think he's played well then you're welcome to say so. But aren't people welcome to say that he doesn't play well?

To be brutally honest I don't care what Tom Lawrence thinks of the forum and I don't he cares what we think of him. But I support Derby County only. Not Tom Lawrence or Richard Keogh or any one singly person unconditionally. Only Derby. I'm not outside his house booing him. I'm on dcfcfans saying that he's a selfish player who plays like he puts himself before the team. And if I was a forward keep getting ignored like our other forwards get ignored he'd hear harsher words than on this thread which has been pretty fair, insult free and calm

Not one of the TL haters were on here when he scored the winner at Reading or the free kick against Leeds yet the minute he has some average games (just like pretty much all our other players with the exception of Mount) then it’s all aboard the TL hate train.

Yes he can be infuriating but he is still our joint highest goal scorer despite missing a few games which speak volumes about our other wingers. 

But as you say, it’s a forum and we are all entitled to our opinions.

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1 hour ago, cannable said:

Hazard and Messi are wonderfully unselfish 

Yep.

The better comparison would be Ronaldo. Who has and would continue to face heavy criticism if he didn't score record breaking amounts of goals and drag his teams kicking and screaming to win major tournaments. 

Remember when he first went to United and played with Van Nistelrooy? 

Was the criticism wrong and unfair? Was Van Nistelrooy wrong to fall out with him? Of course not. He was wasting great opportunities for Man United by putting himself first. 

It's not fickle that those same people now heap praise on him. It's because he started delivering results for his team. What are people supposed to do? Refuse to see his improvement? 

At the end of the day they support the team and all that's good for it. It's not fickle it's pretty fair and simple. You want to be loved then benefit the team. If you don't then you're not. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Derbyram1 said:

Not one of the TL haters were on here when he scored the winner at Reading or the free kick against Leeds yet the minute he has some average games (just like pretty much all our other players with the exception of Mount) then it’s all aboard the TL hate train.

Yes he can be infuriating but he is still our joint highest goal scorer despite missing a few games which speak volumes about our other wingers. 

But as you say, it’s a forum and we are all entitled to our opinions.

I was and there were others

He was poor in both games. Look back through the threads and you'll likely see that. He was part of that left flank v Leeds that got murdered. He'd lose the ball and Lowe was constantly caught out. Lowe struggled big time but it was our attacking players including Lawrence and Wilson that kept wasting the ball. Then he hit a free kick and all was forgotten. 

Reading he was terrible first half. Tried to link up with Mount but refused to keep things simple. We needed to keep the ball and he (not just him) were racing off on his own. Both him and Wilson were poor. Then he scored a header and history said he played well. 

I know people will say that without his free kick and his header that the games are even worse. But I'm saying that if he passed to a team mate on time more often that we would likely have created more chances like we have in a few of the games he's not played in.

I'm not blaming him for all things bad by the way. I'm not saying he's useless and that he can stick his match winning headers up his bum. I want him to be a better player! I get angry with him for being selfish, that's all

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Potential to be a very good player. Bit selfish at times, forgets to pass occasionally and gets the ball trapped under his feet a bit to often. .. give the man time and keep off his back I reckon. Then we might see the best of him more often.

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I don't rate him, good right foot and that's about it. You either have a football brain, or you don't, Tom Lawrence doesn't unfortunately. Selfish player, doesn't work hard enough, a poor mans tom ince. Just my opinion, I hope he proves me wrong.

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