Two banks of four

[secretsquirrel]

Can anyone remember the last time we were able to breakdown sides that play with 2 banks of four-it seems to be irrelevant of the management team ,we have an inability to cope against this system-i remember watching a masterclass in the art by a Dave Jones Cardiff side about 7 or 8 years ago and there have been may examples since where we get totally snuffed out. 

[RiddingsRam]

It's not just us , it's any team that pays a possession based game , look at Man city , arguably the best possession based team around at the moment , they struggled to break down a resilient Brighton. That's just one example . You will see it a lot . Probably one of the only strengths under Rowetts tenure was that we were able to beat more resilient teams by playing so deep , drawing them in, then hitting them on the counter. 

[angieram]

The best way to do this is to become expert at set pieces. Free kicks I think we already have covered but we need to improve at corners,  with delivery and heading skills not the best.

However, to do that we would sacrifice the ball playing centre halves and midfielder for units with aerial skills and less mobility.

Either way is a compromise and I prefer our way.

So more practice on corner routines and more shooting instead of waiting for the perfect sight of goal (and no crowd moaning when they get blocked!) 

[ram59]

I think more shots from distance is the answer. Either placed into the corner of the goal or a blast which may move in the air or get a deflection or come back off the keeper like  the Marriott goal against Man u.

We've got to realise that some of these shots will end up closer to the corner flag and not get on the players backs, which only discourages then from trying. 

[Kernow]

Bang one in the top corner first 5 minutes then see what they do.

Just give the ball to Mount and let him shoot til one goes in, then we can knock it about.

[Millenniumram]

They’ll break down eventually if you keep at it, maybe lobbing an extra striker on second half could help and go 424. The issue lies when you concede early goals because of stupid mistakes, it allows the opposition to sit in further. That can only be solved by ensuring the players concentrate properly from minute one, which hasn’t been the case thus far this season. Also agree with others that more long shots would help, tho this clearly needs practice, would be a training focus of mine because I have no faith in the likes of Johnson and Bryson, who are the most likely to get any space around the edge of the box, actually being able to hit one in.

[ImARam2]

I went to Bolton on Saturday and it wasn't two banks of 4, on several occasions it was two banks of 5 in front of their goalkeeper.

We didn't use the width of the pitch very much and neither did Bogle or Forsyth get forward enough. When Lawrence came on I can only recall him going down the left wing once and he just tried going inside to set himself for a shot, then being crowded out by the wall of Bolton players.

I agree there seemed a reluctance to shoot at times, as Bryson had an opportunity in the first half when he was just inside their penalty box, on the right hand side, and elected to pass instead of shooting, which could have been blocked or saved, but there again he could have scored.

Marriott had a good snap-shot in the 2nd half, which only just went wide and if it had been on target would probably have gone in.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Few days previously against manure  Bennett was getting pelters for shooting when through and not passing.

Wonder what Frank and Jody say to the team before each of the games......"shoot on sight today, lads" or "they'll come out, pass through them". Is it that clear I wonder (not having been in one of their team talks).

[Sparkle]

6 minutes ago, ImARam2 said:

I went to Bolton on Saturday and it wasn't two banks of 4, on several occasions it was two banks of 5 in front of their goalkeeper.

We didn't use the width of the pitch very much and neither did Bogle or Forsyth get forward enough. When Lawrence came on I can only recall him going down the left wing once and he just tried going inside to set himself for a shot, then being crowded out by the wall of Bolton players.

I agree there seemed a reluctance to shoot at times, as Bryson had an opportunity in the first half when he was just inside their penalty box, on the right hand side, and elected to pass instead of shooting, which could have been blocked or saved, but there again he could have scored.

Marriott had a good snap-shot in the 2nd half, which only just went wide and if it had been on target would probably have gone in.

I was there as well and that is fairly consistent with my view

no width and no strength up front,sad but true. Yet I prefer to be trying to score rather than playing to hang on

[cannable]

Get wide and stretch the back-four, third-man runs to create a spare man either in-behind on  the by-line or in a position to swing one in, bodies in the box. 

Regularly switch the play. 

[ram59]

56 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

They’ll break down eventually if you keep at it, maybe lobbing an extra striker on second half could help and go 424. The issue lies when you concede early goals because of stupid mistakes, it allows the opposition to sit in further. That can only be solved by ensuring the players concentrate properly from minute one, which hasn’t been the case thus far this season. Also agree with others that more long shots would help, tho this clearly needs practice, would be a training focus of mine because I have no faith in the likes of Johnson and Bryson, who are the most likely to get any space around the edge of the box, actually being able to hit one in.

 Ironically, we had a player scoring for the u23s last night with a shot from distance and who can score with either foot, Butterfield. 

When FL arrived, I thought might see Butterfield back, as there are similarities in his game to FL.

If Butterfield does get a chance, I just hope the fans back him. Picking on certain players doesn't help them or the team. 

[AdamRam]

Frank just need to read these comments and he has the answers, looks like we sorted and he can have a few days off.

On a serious note, patience is needed, not during the match but with what FL is trying to implement. British football is the most competitive league in the world because it is unique, Spain for example have a league where all teams play the same way, here we have weaker teams that will quite happily sacrifice playing football to gain a positive outcome from a match. Even Klopp, Pep and the likes have struggled and it has taken time to find a way to play effective football against the different styles they will come up against and win on a consistent basis.

We are going to lose games, no doubt about that, we don’t need a plan B, we just need to implement our current style better, it’s going to take a longer than a dozen games though I’m afraid, but imo there are plenty of positives to take away so far.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Here you go: https://www.gpstechnicalarea.com/news_article/show/828516

It is interesting to see this sort of analysis. Basically, it says because the banks of four are fairly static, runs with pace from deep are a powerful weapon if the timing is right. There's some benefit to predetermined drills designed to move the defence out of position, but small-sided possession training helps. Passing backwards to go forwards, although not popular is also given as a way to open up space.

[Duracell]

It requires patience. Not just within matches, but across the season. 

[Doodle]

No point playing 4 at the back against this system. 3 at the back, 5 in midfield to control the game and 2 up top. We have the personnel for this system. Frank is learning still, but he’s a quick learner. Won’t take many more Bolton’s or Rotherham’s before he adapts 

[Gritstone Ram]

I saw some attempts to play through the defence but it requires excellent first touch control or one touch football with pin point accurate passes all the way through. This also requires the players position to be spot on too. It may be easy in training but not in a real game. 

My thoughts are to try to get some of the opposition out of the middle. look to play the ball down the wings and rely on a forward to win the ball with a couple of midfielders picking up the second ball.

[Coneheadjohn]

I remember Rowett having 2 banks of five.

The main problem with that was the gigantic open space between them both.

[jono]

Move the ball quickly and have multiple darting runs off the ball.

2 banks of 4 works for defending teams if the attacking side allows them to keep shape by playing slow ball

[RamNut]

we rely on the two holding mids and the full backs to orchestrate the forward play, get the ball to the three attacking midfielders, and then follow up in support. 

V bolton first half, keogh and tomori would pass out to one of the four. Often bryson. And he / they would smash it straight back.

Thats lazy play in my opinion. Easy option. If that group are continually going backwards we aint going anywhere, which is doubly frustrating when bolton are sitting back and that group are having it easy. The problem is a lack of suitable alternatives on the bench. Huddz is static. Thorne and butters are out of the picture. Evans is injured and Bayliss - the young bryson lookalike - is still at Coventry.

Bringing on Malone might have helped.

Taking off bryson or johnson and adding an extra attacking player might also have helped.

Should've changed it at half time.

 

[therealhantsram]

May have to get the team to work on their street smarts... thinking how to draw the foul and making use of the set-pieces. Vydra won us lots of penalties last season I recall.  You can't always win pretty.