The Championship 18/19

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Remy the hare said:

Hmmm call me pessimistic or realistic? I wish I had your optimistic view. 

The 6 above are either playing well or grinding out results, picking up victories against team they should be. We on the other hand have been lucky to pick up the points we have since November if you’re being totally honest.

Frank looks lost at the minute which is the wrong part of the season to be lost. Maybe like us he’s kidding himself by looking for excuses like ‘need huddz in the 11’, ‘once Mount’s back we’ll be alright’ ‘play 3 at the back’, ‘need to get Jack fit’ etc, etc. which doesn’t seem to make things better.

I’m not bashing Frank, I hope he stays and gets the summer to assess, reflect, recruit and build on this season, which I think has moved us away from the brooding for the mac1 14/15 season. Let’s be up there for the right reasons, not because were desperate. 

I definitely share that sentiment. I’d like us to finish top 6, for the excitement of the play offs. And if you offered me a win at Wembley, I’d obviously bite your hand off. But realistically, I think we’d be far better served by not getting promoted this season, and having the proper clear out this summer that we’ve all been waiting for. Reflect on the lessons learnt this season, and then storm the league next. 

I don’t want to be a Huddersfield that scrapes up through the play offs, only to be mostly outclassed in the premier league. I don’t want to be a Cardiff that were always the bridesmaids for a long time, always in the play offs, eventually threw so much money at it, getting Bellamy involved etc. that they did manage to get up, only to come straight back down again. 

I want to be a wolves, or a Bournemouth. I want to build the right way, and absolutely trounce the league. Secure promotion by March, and party all April. 

I’m willing to wait another year for that. 

But, I still say play offs are totally achievable this season, and once we’re there, who knows what might happen. 

[Wolfie20]

16 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I definitely share that sentiment. I’d like us to finish top 6, for the excitement of the play offs. And if you offered me a win at Wembley, I’d obviously bite your hand off. But realistically, I think we’d be far better served by not getting promoted this season, and having the proper clear out this summer that we’ve all been waiting for. Reflect on the lessons learnt this season, and then storm the league next. 

I don’t want to be a Huddersfield that scrapes up through the play offs, only to be mostly outclassed in the premier league. I don’t want to be a Cardiff that were always the bridesmaids for a long time, always in the play offs, eventually threw so much money at it, getting Bellamy involved etc. that they did manage to get up, only to come straight back down again. 

I want to be a wolves, or a Bournemouth. I want to build the right way, and absolutely trounce the league. Secure promotion by March, and party all April. 

I’m willing to wait another year for that. 

But, I still say play offs are totally achievable this season, and once we’re there, who knows what might happen. 

Good post and I feel the vast majority of fans would go with that.

[Remy the hare]

24 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I definitely share that sentiment. I’d like us to finish top 6, for the excitement of the play offs. And if you offered me a win at Wembley, I’d obviously bite your hand off. But realistically, I think we’d be far better served by not getting promoted this season, and having the proper clear out this summer that we’ve all been waiting for. Reflect on the lessons learnt this season, and then storm the league next. 

I don’t want to be a Huddersfield that scrapes up through the play offs, only to be mostly outclassed in the premier league. I don’t want to be a Cardiff that were always the bridesmaids for a long time, always in the play offs, eventually threw so much money at it, getting Bellamy involved etc. that they did manage to get up, only to come straight back down again. 

I want to be a wolves, or a Bournemouth. I want to build the right way, and absolutely trounce the league. Secure promotion by March, and party all April. 

I’m willing to wait another year for that. 

But, I still say play offs are totally achievable this season, and once we’re there, who knows what might happen. 

I think we are on pretty much the same wavelength, however you say it's in our own hands which it is 100% agree, but if we lose on Monday and Bristol beat brum city midweek (which is very likely) and we're 5 points adrift and the realism will starts to sets in for a lot. I am not putting you in this bracket, but there is quite a lot of folk on here say there not bothered about promotion / play offs but if come May and we don't make at least the POs, i think the knifes will be out for Frank sadly.

[David]

1 hour ago, Wolfie20 said:

Good post and I feel the vast majority of fans would go with that.

I wouldn’t.

Probably best we don’t go up? Sorry @TigerTedd but that’s mind boggling to be polite.

Even if we crashed out after one season we would have that Premier League money and parachute payments which could set this club up nicely.

[Mostyn6]

2 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

I want to be a wolves

Er... they bought their way up.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

19 minutes ago, Moist One said:

Er... they bought their way up.

So does everyone to an extent.

Would we not have done similar if we had got promoted in 15/16, where we spent £10 million alone on replacing two injured players?

[Mostyn6]

4 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

So does everyone to an extent.

Would we not have done similar if we had got promoted in 15/16, where we spent £10 million alone on replacing two injured players?

see the context though, don't just jump on my comment. Go and read the full post to which I am replying.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

3 minutes ago, Moist One said:

see the context though, don't just jump on my comment. Go and read the full post to which I am replying.

I get your point.

I still hate the phrase 'they bought the league' though. Everyone spends as much money as they can to try and succeed.

[Millenniumram]

9 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

I get your point.

I still hate the phrase 'they bought the league' though. Everyone spends as much money as they can to try and succeed.

Well, with an ideal owner they do anyway. Couldn’t give a duck if we spend 100 mil to get up, won’t feel like an empty victory to me?

[Remy the hare]

1 hour ago, David said:

I wouldn’t.

Probably best we don’t go up? Sorry @TigerTedd but that’s mind boggling to be polite.

Even if we crashed out after one season we would have that Premier League money and parachute payments which could set this club up nicely.

Can you imagine us with seriously big money? Our track record over the last 5 years has been very poor. If we ever do get there we’d overspend get relegated and have a load of mercenaries on £100k + per week disinterested in playing in the championship. Look how well villa, stoke, Swansea, etc have done with all that premier league money. No thanks. 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, David said:

I wouldn’t.

Probably best we don’t go up? Sorry @TigerTedd but that’s mind boggling to be polite.

Even if we crashed out after one season we would have that Premier League money and parachute payments which could set this club up nicely.

I get that. I was talking about if I could essentially pick my ideal (semi realistic) future from this point. 

Of course, if we make the play offs, and go up, then happy days. But it will sort of feel a bit undeserved, like we’ve staggered over the line. As it would’ve done with rowett and wassall (not mac1, we did trounce the league then, just had too much to catch up and couldn’t quite catch Burnley).

When we go up, I’d love us to go up in first place by a country mile, with a team that could probably finish mid table premier league without any changes. 

[David]

7 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

Can you imagine us with seriously big money? Our track record over the last 5 years has been very poor. If we ever do get there we’d overspend get relegated and have a load of mercenaries on £100k + per week disinterested in playing in the championship. Look how well villa, stoke, Swansea, etc have done with all that premier league money. No thanks. 

So let’s play it safe, stay in the Championship. No thanks.

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, Remy the hare said:

I think we are on pretty much the same wavelength, however you say it's in our own hands which it is 100% agree, but if we lose on Monday and Bristol beat brum city midweek (which is very likely) and we're 5 points adrift and the realism will starts to sets in for a lot. I am not putting you in this bracket, but there is quite a lot of folk on here say there not bothered about promotion / play offs but if come May and we don't make at least the POs, i think the knifes will be out for Frank sadly.

I just don’t like this looking into the future and already seeing us 5 pts behind. People are talking about it like that’s a done deal. 

If we win on Monday and Bristol loose to brum, then we’re right back in it. Both sequences of events are reasonably likely. Or we could both draw. So until someone shows me a table where we’re 5pts adrift, I’d rather be positive about it. 

Of course, if everyone wins all their remaining games, and we loose our remaining games, then we won’t get in the playoffs. That’s kind of stating the obvious. 

I certianky hope the knives won’t be out for frank. Did anyone realistically expect play offs at the start of the season? If we get in the play offs, it’ll be a wonderful achievement. If we’re still in the same position next season, then I’ll have my knife sharpener at the ready. 

[David]

2 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I get that. I was talking about if I could essentially pick my ideal (semi realistic) future from this point. 

Of course, if we make the play offs, and go up, then happy days. But it will sort of feel a bit undeserved, like we’ve staggered over the line. As it would’ve done with rowett and wassall (not mac1, we did trounce the league then, just had too much to catch up and couldn’t quite catch Burnley).

When we go up, I’d love us to go up in first place by a country mile, with a team that could probably finish mid table premier league without any changes. 

Nobody has ever gone up and not deserved it.

You can’t seriously want us to wait for this fairy tale promotion where we waltz the league? How many clubs have done that without Parachute payments or a super agent in control?

Each season that passes by another club are claiming that Premier League money and making it more difficult.

Get up there, quick as we can. Whatever happens in the Championships guarantees nothing when you go up.

[Inglorius]

7 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

When we go up, I’d love us to go up in first place by a country mile, with a team that could probably finish mid table premier league without any changes. 

I'd love that as well. But not at the exclusion of scraping into the playoffs on the last day of the season then scabbing a last minute winner at Wembley after being pummelled by the opposition for 90 minutes.

[Remy the hare]

2 minutes ago, David said:

So let’s play it safe, stay in the Championship. No thanks.

No I’m not saying that but whether Wolves bought there way up or not they looked the business last season. Had a plan, a way with a strong manager and now 7th in the PL is theirs, hats off from me. I want us to go up looking the business not limping in the end like we’ve done the last 4 years. Do you seriously think the £100m + would really help us in the PL?

I admire anyone who’s optimistic about this season, but it’s following a similar demoralising pattern to the last 4 to me sadly.  

[TigerTedd]

58 minutes ago, Moist One said:

Er... they bought their way up.

And that’s fine. But they didn’t just chuck silly money at silly signings. They were a bit clever about it.

Cardiff bought their way up cos they were hanging around the play offs for ages. I just worry that we’re turning into them during that period. I always look at them like ‘what a sad little team’, especially when they got overtaken by Swansea. 

Its almost like your in and around the play offs, so it’s not necessarily broke, just need to keep plodding away and we’ll get there one year. Keep throwing money at it, and we’ll get there. I specially remember when they got Bellamy, and was chuckling when they still didn’t get promoted. They were trying to buy their way up in the end, because they’d ran out of ideas, it was desperation and it eventually worked.

I don’t want us to be that. (I was terrified at one point that burton would end up being out Swansea, just to complete the similarities, and get promoted before us). 

Wolves did something a bit different. They were languishing around mid to lower table, then got a bit creative and took the league apart. Other teams have done similar. Where have Norwich come from. Even Leeds haven’t been particularly good over the last few seasons. It’s almost easier to make those more radical decisions when you’re out of the play off picture. 

Frank was our radical decision. But we wouldn’t have taken it if rowett hadn’t gone. We wouldn’t sack rowett, he got us in the play offs, so we’d keep plodding on, maybe scraping 6th and going out in the semis again. Year after year, de ja ducking vous. His departure meant we could try something a bit different: enter frank. 

Hes actually over achieving this year. We may well end up in 6th and go out in the semis, but not as part of the same old same old, and as good as it’ll ever get, but as part of a season where we are supposed to end 8-10th, and then build for a proper title push next season. 

It’s like billy getting promoted in the first season of a 3 year plan. It kind of throws the plan off the rails a bit. Not that you’d throw the final cos it’s not part of the plan, you take the opportunity with both hands of course. 

I just kind of hope that if we do finish 6th, we stay the course with the rebuild. We don’t change the plan to try to try to steadyvthe ship and aim for 6th again next season. I’ve got faith that this season is all building to something very special next season, if we don’t get promoted (and if we do get promoted, then mission accomplished either way). 

[David]

3 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

No I’m not saying that but whether Wolves bought there way up or not they looked the business last season. Had a plan, a way with a strong manager and now 7th in the PL is theirs, hats off from me. I want us to go up looking the business not limping in the end like we’ve done the last 4 years. Do you seriously think the £100m + would really help us in the PL?

I admire anyone who’s optimistic about this season, but it’s following a similar demoralising pattern to the last 4 to me sadly.  

Of course the money would help us if spent sensibly, you have to remember the situation we are in now is thanks to transfers under Sam Rush’s tenure.

Fulham were wiping the floor with teams when they went up, now they can barely wipe their noses. 

Huddersfield scraped their way up, survived a season before coming back down, that money plus parachute payments gives them a huge advantage. 

People waiting for this “perfect” promotion when it means nothing when you’re up there. Really don’t understand it.

Replicating Wolves would be difficult without an agent that can someone bring Premier League quality players in dirt cheap.

[TigerTedd]

13 minutes ago, David said:

Nobody has ever gone up and not deserved it.

You can’t seriously want us to wait for this fairy tale promotion where we waltz the league? How many clubs have done that without Parachute payments or a super agent in control?

Each season that passes by another club are claiming that Premier League money and making it more difficult.

Get up there, quick as we can. Whatever happens in the Championships guarantees nothing when you go up.

I’m not trying to say that. 

I’m preparing myself for both eventualities. We get promoted this season, then happy days. I actually think frank is more suited to managing us in the premier league, and we’d do fine next season. And that chance is still there. It’s not even a crap chance, it’s a good chance. At least we’re not a team like villa, clinging on to the mathematical possibility that it still might be possible. 

But if we don’t go up this season. I think we’re building to something great next season. 

I’d be very happy with either scenario.  

If frank lets me down next season though, whichever league were in, I’m going to be really gutted. 

[TigerTedd]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Of course the money would help us if spent sensibly, you have to remember the situation we are in now is thanks to transfers under Sam Rush’s tenure.

Fulham were wiping the floor with teams when they went up, now they can barely wipe their noses. 

Huddersfield scraped their way up, survived a season before coming back down, that money plus parachute payments gives them a huge advantage. 

People waiting for this “perfect” promotion when it means nothing when you’re up there. Really don’t understand it.

Replicating Wolves would be difficult without an agent that can someone bring Premier League quality players in dirt cheap.

We don’t have to replicate wolves, but maybe our way up is franks contacts bringing those prem quality players in on loans, rather than the super agent (a la Wilson and Mount).

I hate the idea of of trying to replicate anyway up. I always feel like forest try that every season. See what’s worked for other clubs and try to replicate it, but end up with the poor man’s version of it. Middle Eastern investor = ‘Man City of the midlands’. Portuguese wonder kids = ‘wolves of the east midlands?’ Etc. 

duck that. 

There are many ways to skin a cat, and we’ll find our way.