Declining attendances

[superzak]

23000 there last night. Is it Rams Tv or sky screening all EFL games to blame. Is it too expensive for a championship game or is it just down to a general decline in interest in football. It isnt just Derby playing to half empty stadiums.

[angieram]

Sky TV. 

[Waffle]

Expensive tickets

[King Kevin]

Rams TV .

[loweman2]

Sky tv, Rams tv, expensive tickets, weather, Keough!

[jayrams]

Think it was always going to happen with the new red button option on Sky for Tuesday matches. You also have the ifollow thing plus Rams TV. If I didn't have a season ticket I would probably watch the Tuesday game on Sky and go to the Saturday game. Can't blame them really.

[Day]

Tuesday 18th September 2018
Villa v Rotherham, 27,991
Leeds v Preston, 27,729
Derby v Blackburn, 23,580
West Brom v Bristol City, 22,051
Stoke v Swansea, 22,078
Ipswich v Brentford, 14,897
Wigan v Hull, 8,848

This weeks games so far, I looked last season to see what attendances were in the same week although there were no games, pulled the attendances from the week games either side of the 18th.

To be honest, the data tells very little as you have so many things to factor in, form, table, home ground capacity, disputes with owners etc. plus obvious the promotion and relegation of teams.

Only a couple of sides played at home to compare like for like, Villa saw a slight increase from playing Boro to Rotherham last night. Ipswich like for like with games v Sunderland and Bristol City. Leeds were down alround 4k, although they played Birmingham last year who travel well compared to Preston.

Tuesday 26th September 2017

Cardiff v Leeds, 27,160
Boro v Norwich, 24,084
Forest v Fulham, 21,208
Bristol City v Bolton, 17,203
Hull v Preston, 15,443
Ipswich v Sunderland, 14,907
Barnsley v QPR, 10,920
Millwall v Reading, 10,399
Brentford v Derby, 8,679
Burton v Villa, 5,786

Tuesday 12th September 2017
Leeds v Birmingham, 31,507
Villa v Boro, 26,631
Sunderland v Forest, 26,061
Norwich v Burton, 24,841
Sheff Wed v Brentford, 23,536
Wolves v Bristol City, 23,045
Bolton v Sheff United, 14,346
QPR v Millwall, 12,600
Preston v Cardiff, 10,796

Derby didn't play again midweek at home until November 21st v QPR with the attendance being 23,296. We played again at home the following week v Ipswich with the attendance being 24,475. With the difference being so small you could easily say this is 50% down to away fans and 50% home. The numbers are that small I would guess that Sky red button hasn't had any significant impact. 

[sawley_ram]

I agree with @David -- far too much to factor in. I've looked at the last few seasons' attendances and it varies so much over the year you really can't rely on a small window in September to gauge attendance overall.

I've said it before here, but Derby County consistently sit within the top of the Championship attendance figure tables. There have been several seasons very recently where we have had the highest home attendances of any Championship side. 

I believe we have a very strong and supportive fan base. If you remember 07/08, we were voted as having some of the most loyal and supportive fans in the Premiership at the time. Even when we knew we were relegated Pride Park was often packed to the rafters.

It is true that Sky has had an impact on the way that people watch the game (I hate that they took Cricket off terrestrial TV), but despite this and despite the odd game where attendance is low, we beat most other clubs in the tier.

[FindernRam]

Due to medical issues could not make last nights game live, so used the red button for the first time. Actually quite impressed. The single camera view is not dissimilar to my seat, no replays of course. A single intelligent commentator who did a good unbiased job. No inane chat with an analyser. 

Will probably still go to mid week home games but can now watch the away ones. Its not actually that many over the season (8?).

What was obvious last night was the lack of noise in the ground. My mate who went said the match live was like being in a mausoleum and the team played like zombies. He didn't enjoy it at all.

I think mid week attendances have been down progressively over recent years so its not just the red button effect-many punters don't have sky.

Also there is evidence from all over the western world that live sport is losing its appeal. Even American football is down 15%.

Blame Netflix!

[Day]

13/14 season is the yardstick that everything appears to be judged on these days, so thought I would take a look. McClaren arrived on the 30th September, these are the midweek home games that followed.

1st Oct - v Ipswich, 21,037
4th Dec - v Boro, 24,631
28th Jan - v Yeovil, 23,615
10th Feb - v QPR, 23,495
11th Mar - v Bolton, 23,435

Couple of things worth pointing out, we were bloody good that year, there was no RamsTV, no midweek flights to Prague, Spain or wherever you fancied. Also we had a different CEO at the time so these numbers may mean nothing if you know what I mean.

I would say that 23k v a bottom half team, regardless of streams or how we play is pretty much where we are and I can't see a decline.

Saturday's are a whole different story, but these will not be effected at all by Sky.

[FindernRam]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Tuesday 18th September 2018
Villa v Rotherham, 27,991
Leeds v Preston, 27,729
Derby v Blackburn, 23,580
West Brom v Bristol City, 22,051
Stoke v Swansea, 22,078
Ipswich v Brentford, 14,897
Wigan v Hull, 8,848

This weeks games so far, I looked last season to see what attendances were in the same week although there were no games, pulled the attendances from the week games either side of the 18th.

To be honest, the data tells very little as you have so many things to factor in, form, table, home ground capacity, disputes with owners etc. plus obvious the promotion and relegation of teams.

Only a couple of sides played at home to compare like for like, Villa saw a slight increase from playing Boro to Rotherham last night. Ipswich like for like with games v Sunderland and Bristol City. Leeds were down alround 4k, although they played Birmingham last year who travel well compared to Preston.

Tuesday 26th September 2017

Cardiff v Leeds, 27,160
Boro v Norwich, 24,084
Forest v Fulham, 21,208
Bristol City v Bolton, 17,203
Hull v Preston, 15,443
Ipswich v Sunderland, 14,907
Barnsley v QPR, 10,920
Millwall v Reading, 10,399
Brentford v Derby, 8,679
Burton v Villa, 5,786

Tuesday 12th September 2017
Leeds v Birmingham, 31,507
Villa v Boro, 26,631
Sunderland v Forest, 26,061
Norwich v Burton, 24,841
Sheff Wed v Brentford, 23,536
Wolves v Bristol City, 23,045
Bolton v Sheff United, 14,346
QPR v Millwall, 12,600
Preston v Cardiff, 10,796

Derby didn't play again midweek at home until November 21st v QPR with the attendance being 23,296. We played again at home the following week v Ipswich with the attendance being 24,475. With the difference being so small you could easily say this is 50% down to away fans and 50% home. The numbers are that small I would guess that Sky red button hasn't had any significant impact. 

The problem with the numbers is what they are or aren't: People in the ground or people with tickets. It seems there is little consistency in how these are collated or published.

Unless you have access to better data of course ?

[Day]

1 minute ago, FindernRam said:

The problem with the numbers is what they are or aren't: People in the ground or people with tickets. It seems there is little consistency in how these are collated or published.

Unless you have access to better data of course ?

Numbers were pulled from BBC Football, scores & results, click a game, down the bottom in the lineup tab.

My later post on 13/14 were pulled from the Wiki page for that season.

[angieram]

Some good points in here to evidence that there hasn't been a sudden decline. If anything then we were punching above our weight with an upsurge in attendances from Mac onwards and maybe just settling back into our core support.

I notably chatted to two new home fans last night who were asking for directions to the South Stand! Just arrived at Derby University and keen to support the Rams. 

[FindernRam]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Numbers were pulled from BBC Football, scores & results, click a game, down the bottom in the lineup tab.

My later post on 13/14 were pulled from the Wiki page for that season.

I wasn't being sarcastic by the way, I know how the BBC stats are listed but are only as good as the info clubs give them. I am informed that police and some councils are given accurate turnstile data. Maybe the EFL gets this data.

[Day]

Just now, FindernRam said:

I wasn't being sarcastic by the way, I know how the BBC stats are listed but are only as good as the info clubs give them. I am informed that police and some councils are given accurate turnstile data. Maybe the EFL gets this data.

No it's fine, should have added where the data was from anyhow, 78% of stats on the internet are made up anyhow so quoting sources isn't a bad idea.

[Boss]

I can safely say for myself and a number of fans I know, it is ticket prices. Have had a season ticket for a number of years, including last year where I had to travel over 2 hours each way to make games. Now I have moved again for work and it is over 4 hours each way to make a game. However, I am often back mid-week due to travelling, and at weekends to see my partner and family. I would happily go to games when I can make them for around £20, but £27 to watch us at home against Brentford? £26 or whatever it was on a Tuesday against Ipswich and Blackburn? A group of 4 of us were looking to go on Saturday, but over £100 means it is a no.

Make tickets £15-£20 and you'll add on a couple of thousand fans each game. I've heard a number of owners suggest that ticket revenue doesn't make up that much of a clubs income now in comparison to TV money etc, so why not make the tickets cheaper and have more fans for a better atmosphere. Yes, of course you'll get the odd fans that'll groan because we're not scoring every 10 seconds, but I think we have many season ticket holders like that anyway.

Reality is, with more games being on TV, the club is pricing many fans out with costs like £27 to watch against Brentford at home.

[Curtains]

It’s getting boring though .

Football is a top level sport. 

We are a nearly team. 

[AdamRam]

15 minutes ago, Newleaf said:

It’s getting boring though .

Football is a top level sport. 

We are a nearly team. 

If your support for the team is based upon success, go and watch Man City ? (I have also head they have a nice forum that would welcome you)

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

If your support for the team is based upon success, go and watch Man City ? (I have also head they have a nice forum that would welcome you)

This is about declining attendances. 

I went last night I’m not the messenger so get real 

Fans are not coming for a reason even with the Frank effect  

Fans like you are a joke  

You go to Man City or any other team 

 

[LazloW]

I think the evidence presented above suggests that attendances aren't actually in 'decline' (though they may be disappointing, which might be a separate debate).