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England v Spain


ViewsFromTheMiddle

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5 hours ago, AdamRam said:

Noting ironic, Ramos is a sort of player you want when you need a leader to pull you through. Messi the 2nd best player in the world with all that talent, is so used to winning that when things goes against on the international stage jistvhasnt got that attitude to become a true international great.

Has he quit again yet from international football because they didn’t give him the World Cup trophy because of his name?

Astonishing anti Messi polemic. 

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7 hours ago, AdamRam said:

Noting ironic, Ramos is a sort of player you want when you need a leader to pull you through. Messi the 2nd best player in the world with all that talent, is so used to winning that when things goes against on the international stage jistvhasnt got that attitude to become a true international great.

Has he quit again yet from international football because they didn’t give him the World Cup trophy because of his name?

I mean… Spain have capitulated at their last three international tournaments… and  I’m not sure it was his ‘winning mentality’ that saw them pass teams to death from 2008-2012… 

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7 hours ago, AdamRam said:

Noting ironic, Ramos is a sort of player you want when you need a leader to pull you through. Messi the 2nd best player in the world with all that talent, is so used to winning that when things goes against on the international stage jistvhasnt got that attitude to become a true international great.

Has he quit again yet from international football because they didn’t give him the World Cup trophy because of his name?

Ramos was a peripheral figure during Spain’s dominance, as he played at RB due to the superior combination of Pique and Puyol in the middle.

Messi already is an international great. He’s Argentina’s leading scorer in history.

The only reason he doesn’t have an international honour to his name is because Higuain can’t score chances you’d expect Connor Sammon to net with ease. Nothing to do with his attitude at all.

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7 hours ago, cannable said:

I mean… Spain have capitulated at their last three international tournaments… and  I’m not sure it was his ‘winning mentality’ that saw them pass teams to death from 2008-2012… 

I’m not sure that I have said his winning mentality was the reason behind any of the international successes Spain has had, he hasn’t got the ability to win matches in his own. That’s my point, he isn’t as technically gifted as others, however his attitude is that he will try to win, no matter what the cost, personally I commend someone who has that winning mentality.

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7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Ramos was a peripheral figure during Spain’s dominance, as he played at RB due to the superior combination of Pique and Puyol in the middle.

Messi already is an international great. He’s Argentina’s leading scorer in history.

The only reason he doesn’t have an international honour to his name is because Higuain can’t score chances you’d expect Connor Sammon to net with ease. Nothing to do with his attitude at all.

So Ramos was played out of his preferred position because.........

Messi is an international great based upon his goals, scoring nearly 1 every 2 goals over his career, yet when it matters he has only managed 6 the World Cup,  that’s the same as Kane managed in one tournament. I’m not saying Messi isn’t recognised as a great within Argentina, there is certainly no arguing that he isn’t one at club level either, but there is also no debate that he hasn’t won an international winners medal.

As I previously said, IMO he hasn’t got that mentality that can pull the national team through when he is needed most, as you say, it’s always someone else’s fault. Personally I beleive that having that much talent, being so used to winning at club level, and being the centre of attention all the time, that when it comes to the Major tournaments there is so much pressure on his shoulders that he hasn’t had the experience of failure to cope.

Look what happened when he missed a penalty in the final of the copa America, quitting because he hadn’t won the match, his comments were all about him, there is doubting he wants it, but my point is that someone like Ramos who hasn’t got the ability of Messi has to work harder to achieve his goals, he needs to do things that don’t make him popular to do it, yet he is prepared to do this for the good of the team.

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2 hours ago, AdamRam said:

I’m not sure that I have said his winning mentality was the reason behind any of the international successes Spain has had, he hasn’t got the ability to win matches in his own. That’s my point, he isn’t as technically gifted as others, however his attitude is that he will try to win, no matter what the cost, personally I commend someone who has that winning mentality.

I’m not sure being a shithouse is any more good than it is bad… he’s critically lost his head against Barcelona more times then he’s ripped Liverpool’s most dangerous player’s arm off… 

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19 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Messi already is an international great. He’s Argentina’s leading scorer in history.

Genuine question here...what good teams have his goals come against?

Pretty sure I've seen you argue that Rooneys international goals do not make him a great because of the opposition  (apologies if it was not you that said this).

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45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Genuine question here...what good teams have his goals come against?

Pretty sure I've seen you argue that Rooneys international goals do not make him a great because of the opposition  (apologies if it was not you that said this).

It’ll mainly be against the South American teams due to qualifying and the Copa America.

I’m pretty sure he’s the only player in a couple of decades to net a hat-trick against Brazil.

Rooney is an England great. I don’t think I’ve ever said he isn’t. Certainly top 5 in my lifetime.

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4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Genuine question here...what good teams have his goals come against?

Pretty sure I've seen you argue that Rooneys international goals do not make him a great because of the opposition  (apologies if it was not you that said this).

He's scored 25 against Madrid and they're not too shabby are they? For comparison, Ronaldo has 'only' 17 against Barca. 

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38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I meant at international level but yes even still that is impressive. 

Yep, I got that I was just being mischievous. In all honesty, some club sides are streets ahead of national teams though and I think half of Messi's woes in the national side are due to the fact that Argentina are pretty awful these days and have been for a fair while now. Folk don't mention the fact that Aguero is not at his best with them either. Also a hideously divided side too which doesn't help. 

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