Mostyn6 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, ram1964 said: So your suggesting the only reason we haven't been promoted is because of Keogh. ???? that must be the most ludicrous ideology posted in the history of this forum. no, never said we haven't been promoted cos of him, I said people who say we wouldn't get promoted with him are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: OK. I dont believe we have received an offer for him, due to the reasons I have listed earlier. Now why do you believe we have? I think you are missing the point. I do not know whether an offer has come in for him or not and neither do you - there is no evidence either way so I think that it is disingenuous to suggest that we have either received an offer for him or not. Unless you know for a fact all you are spouting is speculation based on your belief. I’m agnostic as to whether a bid has come in or not. My opinion is that we should not single out Keogh for lambasting when he was one of 10 on Saturday who were under par. The view that he always has a mistake in him is true however show me a player who hasn’t and also show me one who doesn’t make several mistakes in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, TroyDyer said: Maybe showing me one offer we've received. That might stop it 'rolling'. I never said we'd received one, why would I need to prove it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 The problem with him is he is prone to making major errors. He will drop at least one clanger in every game, and in my opinion, without his pace to get him out of other errors, we'd see a lot more come to prominence. He's 32 now so his pace will slow, and it will become clearer and clearer. So many of his great last gasp challenges and SS cries of "Keogh Keogh Keogh" originated with him either giving the ball away cheaply, going on a wild run and getting caught out of position, then having to battle back to clear up his own mess. Decent players read the game, and don't rely on being reactive. You'll very rarely see Davies having to leg it back to clean up a mess with a last ditch challenge. Every year is the same, and at 32 I don't think it will change. We're only two games in and he's already had two nightmares. To be fair, he normally looks alright for a bit, before losing his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: The problem with him is he is prone to making major errors. He will drop at least one clanger in every game, and in my opinion, without his pace to get him out of other errors, we'd see a lot more come to prominence. He's 32 now so his pace will slow, and it will become clearer and clearer. So many of his great last gasp challenges and SS cries of "Keogh Keogh Keogh" originated with him either giving the ball away cheaply, going on a wild run and getting caught out of position, then having to battle back to clear up his own mess. Decent players read the game, and don't rely on being reactive. You'll very rarely see Davies having to leg it back to clean up a mess with a last ditch challenge. Every year is the same, and at 32 I don't think it will change. We're only two games in and he's already had two nightmares. To be fair, he normally looks alright for a bit, before losing his head. Sol Campbell made a decent career for himself doing exactly that.....it's why I never rated him... I don't get why this thread seems to have degenerated into a "He's God's gift to football" or "He's utter Horse droppings" argument - fact is that he's 'normally' a decent Championship level defender - and at times a very good one. In the first two games, he's not got anywhere near the standards he can get to so people have criticised him - that's what happens if people are disappointed - to tar everyone who thinks he can/should do better as a "Keogh hater" is ridiculous - as is writing him off after a couple of poor performances. The whole team are learning about Frank's way of playing and how each other play - it will take time - those who don't get that are watching the wrong team.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: The problem with him is he is prone to making major errors. He will drop at least one clanger in every game, and in my opinion, without his pace to get him out of other errors, we'd see a lot more come to prominence. He's 32 now so his pace will slow, and it will become clearer and clearer. So many of his great last gasp challenges and SS cries of "Keogh Keogh Keogh" originated with him either giving the ball away cheaply, going on a wild run and getting caught out of position, then having to battle back to clear up his own mess. Decent players read the game, and don't rely on being reactive. You'll very rarely see Davies having to leg it back to clean up a mess with a last ditch challenge. Every year is the same, and at 32 I don't think it will change. We're only two games in and he's already had two nightmares. To be fair, he normally looks alright for a bit, before losing his head. So, you don't actually know whether we've received an offer for him or not then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Just now, curb said: So, you don't actually know whether we've received an offer for him or not then? Why don't you just read back, where it was shown there was one offer 4 years ago, from Burnley. Apart from that, nowt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinzy9 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Gaspode said: Sol Campbell made a decent career for himself doing exactly that.....it's why I never rated him... I don't get why this thread seems to have degenerated into a "He's God's gift to football" or "He's utter Horse droppings" argument - fact is that he's 'normally' a poor Championship level defender - and at times a reasonable one. In the first two games, he's not got anywhere near the standards he can get to so people have criticised him - that's what happens if people are disappointed - to tar everyone who thinks he can/should do better as a "Keogh hater" is ridiculous - as is writing him off after a couple of poor performances. The whole team are learning about Frank's way of playing and how each other play - it will take time - those who don't get that are watching the wrong team.... FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: The problem with him is he is prone to making major errors. He will drop at least one clanger in every game, and in my opinion, without his pace to get him out of other errors, we'd see a lot more come to prominence. He's 32 now so his pace will slow, and it will become clearer and clearer. So many of his great last gasp challenges and SS cries of "Keogh Keogh Keogh" originated with him either giving the ball away cheaply, going on a wild run and getting caught out of position, then having to battle back to clear up his own mess. Decent players read the game, and don't rely on being reactive. You'll very rarely see Davies having to leg it back to clean up a mess with a last ditch challenge. Every year is the same, and at 32 I don't think it will change. We're only two games in and he's already had two nightmares. To be fair, he normally looks alright for a bit, before losing his head. Your second point will need evidence. If you’re playing a high line and from the back then a centre-half who is quick and can play is absolutely vital… the time to get rid of Keogh was under Pearson or Rowett. In a high-line of course all of Keogh’s defensive moments will be reactive because all attacks will be the opposition beating the press or countering is. He’s absoloutely the first name on the team sheet in the present system. Davies and Pearce aren’t good enough on the ball and they would be torn to shreds on the break, we’ve seen it first hand with Pearce two seasons ago. Better defenders or not. If you play them you have to defend deep and hit the channels. We’re in the Championship, ball-playing centre-halves who are quick and read the game well aren’t here for long. John Stones lasted six months. Michael Keane’s the closest we’ve had but he was slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: Why don't you just read back, where it was shown there was one offer 4 years ago, from Burnley. Apart from that, nowt. Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, curb said: Prove it. The duck are you on about? Prove there is no evidence of other bids other than one from Burnley? How do I prove there is no evidence other than to provide no evidence, because there is no evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Keogh has his strengths and weaknesses just like any other Championship centre-back. He's one of the best ball-playing CBs outside the Premier League. But this season he has started poorly, though he hasn't been the only one and the options infront of him when he has the ball haven't been there. I think people have vastly overrated Tomori's performance. He was just as bad, being caught way out of position several times. Lowe and Wisdom were also dreadful, as was Ledley. But going back to Keogh. He thrives in a functioning team who plays the ball out of the back, and suits that sort of team far more than perhaps better 'defenders' who can't pass the ball as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: The duck are you on about? Prove there is no evidence of other bids other than one from Burnley? How do I prove there is no evidence other than to provide no evidence, because there is no evidence? So you don’t know then. You’re saying that Keogh isn’t a good player because nobody has made an offer for him, when you don’t really know whether there has been one or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, Moist One said: no, never said we haven't been promoted cos of him, I said people who say we wouldn't get promoted with him are correct. No they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, curb said: So you don’t know then. You’re saying that Keogh isn’t a good player because nobody has made an offer for him, when you don’t really know whether there has been one or not. No, I said Keogh isn't a good player, because Keogh isn't a good player. The fact there is no evidence for bids pouring in for the "best defender in the championship" was purely an add on. He could have been courted by the Harlem Globetrotters, but he'd still be a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Paul71 said: No they aren't. when did we get promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: No, I said Keogh isn't a good player, because Keogh isn't a good player. The fact there is no evidence for bids pouring in for the "best defender in the championship" was purely an add on. He could have been courted by the Harlem Globetrotters, but he'd still be a liability. ‘Purely an add on’ ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Moist One said: when did we get promoted? How do they know we aren’t going to get promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Worse defenders than Richard Keogh have got promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, Moist One said: when did we get promoted? To the best of my knowledge he still plays for Derby? If I made a prediction pre season that Man City wouldnt retain their title would I now be able to claim I was correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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