Comrade 86 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Inglorius said: Surprisingly your stream of drivel and inability to answer direct questions doesn't fuss me that much, your use of the word mate I do find a tad over familiar and patronising, am sure I'll get over it. Good for you mate! I'll sleep better for knowing as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Lokidoki said: Who's job is it to marshal the players into position and to get the young players to track their man? The captain and the oldest player in the back four. You've just answered your own question and noted my point. And this is why people don’t take Keogh bashing seriously You are now blaming him for other players losing their runners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, 86 points said: Good for you mate! I'll sleep better for knowing as much. You don't want to carry on the debate then and are happy to put up excuses not to? I don't find you that interesting either truth be known but would respect you more if you tried to answer the questions I posed rather then hiding behind stuff. Anyway I get the feeling you like having the last say on everything so look forward in anticipation to your next witty riposte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, plymouthram said: We can all state that, put two good seasoned centre halfs together will improve your team. Have two strikers that will get 20+ goals each, will also improve your team. I'm not going to disagree that looking for a better centre half is wrong. If we get promotion, it will be a must because Keogh would be out of depth playing regular Premiership football. Your last sentence isn't the formality you seem to indicate - who would have believed Wes Morgan would be part of a team who won the Premier League title. Not suggesting for one minute Keogh would have similar success but he's better than half a dozen central defenders currently playing in the top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Lokidoki said: Here we go again. Tell me how many dropped points and goals given away due to his errors. It always appears that this is the forgotten bit, the unspeakable truth. Over a season this is the difference between success and failure. The failure on Tuesday and on Boxing Day and the match before that, over and over - like a Groundhog Day, it's not if it will happen but when and that is an undeniable fact. And also what I pointed out last year and the year before and many others have said too. Lovely man; over a season, a liability. Defending the indefensible I'm afraid. Erm........why don’t you tell me as it’s the point your making! Whilst your compiling those figures I hope you are cross referencing them against other defenders in the division to see if he’s a liability in comparison. In the interest of fairness you should also be producing the figures for how many times he’s saved us with blocks or tackles and even when he’s contributed goals, assists or helped launch an attack that led to a goal or chance. I await these facts with interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, ChrisKeogh said: Not sure I understand your point. 'Selective memory' Yes, if you ignore the basic errors ... but hang on, they are basic errors not slight mistakes. And they are typical Keogh. Which is why they get noticed. They are 'Oh now, he's done it again' moments. He stops doing it; I stop noticing it. Last and final post. How many games has Keogh not played? look around him for the last 7 years and list the massive list of players that have come got dropped/injured and gone. Guys like fozzie, Christie Etc and all the new comers. Apply a formula to hours played divided by mistakes made. i would wager his stats will be pretty good compared to any defensive player we’ve had in the last 7 yrs. when Bogle makes a mistake for example, he can get cover and no one demonises him. Keogh has no one usually. Like to see the formula applied to Bogle, Wisdom, Forsyth, Malone , Lowe,Davies Etc.etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Lokidoki said: Who's job is it to marshal the players into position and to get the young players to track their man? The captain and the oldest player in the back four. You've just answered your own question and noted my point. If Tomori doesn't know he needs to mark the striker, be goal side of his man, and needs Keogh to hold his hand for 90 minutes he might as well hang his boots up now because he will not be going very far in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, Inglorius said: I'm not your mate either. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, ChrisKeogh said: It's the 'at this level' bit though. IMHO Keogh is just about 'at this level'. But his errors are too costly and have kept us 'at this level' for too long. Time for a change. Fair doo's. That's your way of looking at it. I like to think he's contributing to our finishes at the right at end of the table rather than stopping us from being promoted, I think generally better teams are going up that us, QPR aside. That's the only one that's actually cost us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Your last sentence isn't the formality you seem to indicate - who would have believed Wes Morgan would be part of a team who won the Premier League title. Not suggesting for one minute Keogh would have similar success but he's better than half a dozen central defenders currently playing in the top division. I stated that last sentence on a few facts, If he was good enough for the premiership, some club would have bought him off us. If we get promotion, we would need to improve the back line and poor old Richard would be 33 in August when next season starts. I not suggesting getting rid of him, but in my opinion he would be a bit part player staying with Derby if we won promotion. My whole point is, Richard Keogh is a qualitity Championship centre half who as been chosen regularly by Derby last 6 managers and if he was'nt good enough then those managers must have been all wrong. Its always easy being a fan of a team and remembering defenders mistakes in matches especially if that mistake leads to a goal. Football is a team effort and Keogh in my opinion as always been a good team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ruda Harliss said: ? And we were getting on so well... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, Inglorius said: I'm not your mate either. Look, we’ve all worn Stone Island clothes at some point, leave it out of the forum. Other ‘ I’m arrd ‘ clothing is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 My perspective is that of course Richard makes some mistakes, on occasions some of them quite bad ones but overall his contribution to the team far exceeds his mistakes. I groan sometimes at his "bad ones" but most of the time I find myself purring over some excellent play by him. In essence to say he is to blame for us not getting promotion and he is "just about at this level" is to me insuting to the player and the managers who have consistently picked him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokidoki Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, rynny said: If Tomori doesn't know he needs to mark the striker, be goal side of his man, and needs Keogh to hold his hand for 90 minutes he might as well hang his boots up now because he will not be going very far in the game. It is funny but earlier on in the thread the great Dave Mackay was mentioned. I recall, being a season ticket holder back then, as I am now, how he was constantly engineering the great players around him, Todd, Roy Mc, Robson, Webster et al; always rallying them into position, often after being pulled out of shape by the opposition. I was only a kid then but looked on this with a sense of marvel. Now I would never mention the two under the same breath but (and I know Curtis wasn't infallible) but I don't see or hear much of this from RK. This is what Curtis added and is what is lacking at the moment. And @Ramarena I actually don't go for the comparison with any other player in the EFL as I only care about Derby County but I do have my own opinion along with a few others on here such as @ChrisKeogh that RK is way past his sell by date and was some years ago, with the judicious use of a get out of jail pass in periods last year. What made me join in this thread is that to some of you to criticise RK is akin to some form of blasphemy and all of us that commit this act are pagan infidels. The very nature of some of the comments just enforce this. Well we will all have to agree, once more, to disagree but if a TV pundit can see what a few thousand Derby fans have been seeing for a while then the opposition coaches will be exploiting this to the max. This is the point I was making those years back and referring to in this thread. Get RK out of position and the defensive shape is gone, or put him under pressure, let him make a mistake and the rest will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: It is funny but earlier on in the thread the great Dave Mackay was mentioned. I recall, being a season ticket holder back then, as I am now, how he was constantly engineering the great players around him, Todd, Roy Mc, Robson, Webster et al; always rallying them into position, often after being pulled out of shape by the opposition. I was only a kid then but looked on this with a sense of marvel. Now I would never mention the two under the same breath but (and I know Curtis wasn't infallible) but I don't see or hear much of this from RK. This is what Curtis added and is what is lacking at the moment. And @Ramarena I actually don't go for the comparison with any other player in the EFL as I only care about Derby County but I do have my own opinion along with a few others on here such as @ChrisKeogh that RK is way past his sell by date and was some years ago, with the judicious use of a get out of jail pass in periods last year. What made me join in this thread is that to some of you to criticise RK is akin to some form of blasphemy and all of us that commit this act are pagan infidels. The very nature of some of the comments just enforce this. Well we will all have to agree, once more, to disagree but if a TV pundit can see what a few thousand Derby fans have been seeing for a while then the opposition coaches will be exploiting this to the max. This is the point I was making those years back and referring to in this thread. Get RK out of position and the defensive shape is gone, or put him under pressure, let him make a mistake and the rest will follow. And here was me looking forward to the evidence! Pretty lame get out of jail card. If you don’t rate Keogh then fine.......but to blame him for us not being promoted is frankly mental! Fortunately our manager sees things very differently and he’s the only one that matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: It is funny but earlier on in the thread the great Dave Mackay was mentioned. I recall, being a season ticket holder back then, as I am now, how he was constantly engineering the great players around him, Todd, Roy Mc, Robson, Webster et al; always rallying them into position, often after being pulled out of shape by the opposition. I was only a kid then but looked on this with a sense of marvel. Now I would never mention the two under the same breath but (and I know Curtis wasn't infallible) but I don't see or hear much of this from RK. This is what Curtis added and is what is lacking at the moment. And @Ramarena I actually don't go for the comparison with any other player in the EFL as I only care about Derby County but I do have my own opinion along with a few others on here such as @ChrisKeogh that RK is way past his sell by date and was some years ago, with the judicious use of a get out of jail pass in periods last year. What made me join in this thread is that to some of you to criticise RK is akin to some form of blasphemy and all of us that commit this act are pagan infidels. The very nature of some of the comments just enforce this. Well we will all have to agree, once more, to disagree but if a TV pundit can see what a few thousand Derby fans have been seeing for a while then the opposition coaches will be exploiting this to the max. This is the point I was making those years back and referring to in this thread. Get RK out of position and the defensive shape is gone, or put him under pressure, let him make a mistake and the rest will follow. Look, nobody is comparing him to Mackay, and it’s unfair to do that , we are not a top division winning side any more, just as Forest won’t win the champions league twice any time soon. nor has keogh got Todd, Roy Mac etc round him . Its not looked at as blasphemy, just the scapegoat in a side with players underperforming to our unrealistically high expectations. There’s many at fault to moan at before RK. Do many mistakes before it gets to him. That’s what annoys people, I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 This thread is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 58 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: It is funny but earlier on in the thread the great Dave Mackay was mentioned. I recall, being a season ticket holder back then, as I am now, Well we will all have to agree, once more, to disagree but if a TV pundit can see what a few thousand Derby fans have been seeing for a while Respect to be a season ticket holder for what 45+ years. You must have seen some CB’s in you time, but you must agree that pundits know very little and Dean Ashdon is not even a regular pundit. A guest, told what he can and can’t say . Anyways I hardly think he represented what a few thousand fans Have seen for a while. Read twice post once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 10 hours ago, Xlor said: There's also a reason we've not progressed and all these said managers have failed and got the sack. If you're happy with a bang average centre half I'll leave you with it. I prefer to watch footballers that can play football. On 27/08/2018 at 21:41, Grimbeard said: Got a season ticket for the first time in quite a while this year. I noticed during the Ipswich game that the bloke behind me was constantly moaning about Keogh. On Saturday I timed his first "Keogh, you're useless" shout at 2mins:15 secs. Xlor, you are the bloke behind me, and I claim my £5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Inglorius said: Surprisingly your stream of drivel and inability to answer direct questions doesn't fuss me that much, your use of the word mate I do find a tad over familiar and patronising, am sure I'll get over it. What direct questions did you ask him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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