Leeds fan in peace

[Cam the Ram]

8 minutes ago, Cjay said:

Fair enough mate.

You know him better then me, funnily enough i thought Davies would be the one who would be ok, not the other way around. Whenever ive watched Keogh though he didnt strike me as a ball playing cb, but admittedly thats not very often.

How do you think your defence and your midfield will cope with being pressed?

 

 

 

I think it all depends on the midfield again. Reading pressed a lot in that first half and the midfield just seemed to leave the defence to it so we struggled a lot. Lampard obviously told them to get more involved at half time and in the 2nd half we improved massively (although that could be down to Reading tiring). 

I know there's a lot of talk of Bielsa and how he has your team pressing in such an impressive way, but I wouldn't expect a ton of time on the ball against us either. I reckon the game will come down to who's the most composed on the ball despite the pressing and who tires first. Your team kept the pressing up for the majority of the game against Stoke so we'll have a tough time matching it, but with the young legs in midfield and attack, plus Bryson who could run probably for 900 minutes, it should be a good match-up 

[RadioactiveWaste]

The annoying tthing about bamfords inevitable goal is happy it'll make the gump lover.
Lets just hope its no more than a consolation.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, Cjay said:

Fair enough mate.

You know him better then me, funnily enough i thought Davies would be the one who would be ok, not the other way around. Whenever ive watched Keogh though he didnt strike me as a ball playing cb, but admittedly thats not very often.

How do you think your defence and your midfield will cope with being pressed?

 

 

 

How do you think yours will?

[Cjay]

47 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

How do you think yours will?

 

2 hours ago, Cam the Ram said:

I think it all depends on the midfield again. Reading pressed a lot in that first half and the midfield just seemed to leave the defence to it so we struggled a lot. Lampard obviously told them to get more involved at half time and in the 2nd half we improved massively (although that could be down to Reading tiring). 

I know there's a lot of talk of Bielsa and how he has your team pressing in such an impressive way, but I wouldn't expect a ton of time on the ball against us either. I reckon the game will come down to who's the most composed on the ball despite the pressing and who tires first. Your team kept the pressing up for the majority of the game against Stoke so we'll have a tough time matching it, but with the young legs in midfield and attack, plus Bryson who could run probably for 900 minutes, it should be a good match-up 

Think you are right.

Its going to be a high energy game, lots of passing, dont expect many hoofs, neither of the sides are particularly big so a great hoof towards the striker isnt likely. 

Hoping for a good attacking game with some nice football and goals.

[Cjay]

47 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

How do you think yours will?

Quoted you by mistake above, was going to reply 1st then changed my mind?.

I am concerned about the defence, if Janssom doesnt play we often have a back 3 of Berardi-Phillips-Cooper.

None of them are really ball playing players imo, although Phillips does seem to have improved under Bielsa in this deeper midfield role.

Depends if you press well as 1, Stoke pressed our defence as individuals and we just passed around them. 

Klich, Saiz, Alioski and Herbandez are quite good at avoiding the press so not concerned in attacking areas, they played some lovely 1 touch stuff at times vs Stoke. 

Also Saiz would come deep to pick the ball up and he is good at turning away from tight marking and running forward.

So concerned but only if your pressing is on point, otherwise not to worried.

[Cjay]

Thanks for the responses and the discussion and banter ?

Do appreciate it.

Couldn't do these threads if no sod responded.

Hope its a good game (and we win).

Cjay. 

 

[IlsonDerby]

We beat Reading with a late goal because they were boll0xd from trying to press for the whole game, I reckon. 

 

First half wasn't great, they did a job on us. Keogh came in for some criticism despite trying to get the ball moving forwards. Wisdom was so, so indecisive and poor with the ball (even if he didn't lose it) never looked to go forward. If I was one of the midfielders or Wilson I'd have given him a right earful at half time. 

 

As long as the midfield, in particular Ledley, make better options open Keogh will shine. If not he'll look like a donkey for trying to be expansive whilst other players just play it 10/15 across the back line which achieves very little. Rock and a hard place. 

 

The movement of the midfield is vital to our performance and if that clicks, like it did in pre season then I fancy us to win. If, like in the first half v Reading, it doesn't click then we will struggle badly. 

 

[Sith Happens]

3 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

We beat Reading with a late goal because they were boll0xd from trying to press for the whole game, I reckon. 

 

First half wasn't great, they did a job on us. Keogh came in for some criticism despite trying to get the ball moving forwards. Wisdom was so, so indecisive and poor with the ball (even if he didn't lose it) never looked to go forward. If I was one of the midfielders or Wilson I'd have given him a right earful at half time. 

 

As long as the midfield, in particular Ledley, make better options open Keogh will shine. If not he'll look like a donkey for trying to be expansive whilst other players just play it 10/15 across the back line which achieves very little. Rock and a hard place. 

 

The movement of the midfield is vital to our performance and if that clicks, like it did in pre season then I fancy us to win. If, like in the first half v Reading, it doesn't click then we will struggle badly. 

 

I think this is right, a fact people often ignore. Bringing young mason on to run at them worked perfectly against those tired legs.

Its one reason billys derby team did well. Fitness was excellent under him and when other teams faded we snatched a 1-0 win.

 

[Mick Harford]

Think it's fair to say that we struggled a bit today.

Credit to Leeds though

Have an enjoyable season matey..

[Brammie Steve]

I was pleased to see how far Leeds have come, not just in the past few months, but since 1974!

I have supported Derby since Cloughie's tenure. It was impossible to support Derby and Leeds as they were poles apart.

Despite this I must admit that Leeds played us off the pitch as the score line reflects.

I have been impressed by the Leeds contributors to our website.

 

In the words of James T Kirk....... 'We come in peace' (and I for one, will not shoot to kill! ?? )

[Cjay]

25 minutes ago, Mick Harford said:

Think it's fair to say that we struggled a bit today.

Credit to Leeds though

Have an enjoyable season matey..

Thanks mate.

You to?

Same as i said to Stoke, its just 1 game.

Wont say anything about the game today as i promised.

[Cjay]

3 minutes ago, steve brummie said:

I was pleased to see how far Leeds have come, not just in the past few months, but since 1974!

I have supported Derby since Cloughie's tenure. It was impossible to support Derby and Leeds as they were poles apart.

Despite this I must admit that Leeds played us off the pitch as the score line reflects.

I have been impressed by the Leeds contributors to our website.

 

In the words of James T Kirk....... 'We come in peace' (and I for one, will not shoot to kill! ??

Thanks muchly?

[RamNut]

Leeds are the best team i've seen for ages.

for an hour we just about matched them but in the end they overran us.

no need for all the wrist slashing though. The scoreline was slightly flattering.

[Cjay]

So the game.

I thought we were excellent, similar to Stoke, we pressed, played with intensity and purpose, everyone knew there roles and stuck to them, we didnt allow ourselves to be pulled around. 

You had some half chances without actually making our Goalkeeper make a proper save, however the game could have been different if the run and cross from Lawrence that hit your player (Bryson i think) had gone in in the at 2-1.

Similarly Mason Mount showed great control but rushed the shot in the 2nd half and the scuffed shot (i cant remember who it was) that Mount nearly got to.

Apart from those i dont think you threatened enough for a home side, not happy about the free kick, well struck but it shouldn't sail over a goalies head when struck right at him.

We ourselves had a couple other chances, Carson with a great save to stop Roofe, then great defending from Tomori to deny a certain goal from Ayling on the follow up. Also, Samu Saiz was 1v1 with Carson 2nd half and for some reason tried to scoop lob him when he should have just smacked it.

Think the difference overall was made before the game, on the training pitch. 

Bielsa clearly has worked our squad hard,  both physically and tactically. Mustn't forget that 10 of our 11 was last seasons mid table squad. Bielsa has drilled them in there roles and responsibilities, every player knows what he expects of them and what the style expects of them 

However, i dont think your lads do, do they press high, do they stand off, do they go long, do they play out from the back. 

Quite often you were launching it from defence into the channels for Waghorn, and more often then not it didnt stick.

Thought your midfield was very poor, Mason Mount was decent but always seemed to far forward, think he needs to learn at times to just sit. Bryson ran about a lot without doing much, and Ledley is no more a holding midfielder then i am, to slow. If your playing with attacking full backs your dm must be fast enough to cover for them if necessary. 

Whenever you got the ball your midfielders all set off, all seemed to be ahead of the ball without you actually having secured possession properly, the 1st goal was a classic example, lost the ball and once we realised we had it comfortably pur players ran into the wide open spaces.

In fact 3 of the goals came from you being careless with possession and the 4th was lazy defending, a 33 year old Pablo Hernandez shouldn't be beating a 21 year old full back to an overhit cross. 

Can see what Frank Lampard is trying to do, he is trying to recreate the Mourinho Chelsea, 4-3-3 aggressive attacking football.

I think it may come good, can see similarities between you and the original Chelsea team,  the way you try and get forward in numbers, not afraid to thump it into the channels. 

But i think your missing 3 types of players that Chelsea team had.

John Terry- A orrible man but a leader of men, a warrior, he wouldn't have allowed such carelessness from the midfield in just buggering off whenever an attack looked possible. Think you lacked a leader at the back, an organiser. 

Didier Drogba- I thought Waghorn didnt look comfortable at all and was a strange signing, was very surprised Frank didn't go for someone more like Drogba, big, strong, able to occupy 2 cbs and bring the midfield runners into play, Rudy Gestede at Boro, someone like that (Frank himself was top scorer at Chelsea in Jose's 1st 2 seasons probably a lot to do with Drogba).

Claude Makelele- Probably the most important and yet most unheralded member of that Chelsea side. Credit to Frank for trying to fix it 2nd half but you desperately need someone like Makelele for his 4-3-3, someone to sit infront of the cbs at all times, protect and keep the ball, simple passes. 

I dont know if you have those 3 type of players in your squad, but i think until you get them or someone steps up to do the job then you will struggle with the 4-3-3. 

Also think Tom Lawrence is wasted on the wing.

Like Tom Lawrence and see him in the number 10 role myself like Saiz, but obviously that cant happen in a 4-3-3, maybe a 4-2-3-1?

Move Lawrence into the number 10 role, Jozefzoon right, Mount playing in a box to box role with a holding midfielder (Huddlestone maybe). And get Jack Marriott playing, he must be brimming with confidence, get Lawrence to be his Derby Marcus Maddison.

Wasnt all doom and gloom imo for you, Mason Mount has a hint of the Lampard about him (probably playing the Lampard role from that Chelsea side). 

Fikayo Timori had some dodgy moments but was your best defender. 

Tom Lawrence (im a fan) was a threat, someone who needs to be allowed to get into the game more in the right areas.

Florian Jozefzoon made more impact then Harry Wilson and actually gave you a different dimension, a winger willing to go outside and try and get a cross in.

And Sky said something like "couldn't see what Lampard was trying to do".

Not true, its bloody obvious, but its a work in progress, perhaps imo as mentioned above 3 key players short and at present perhaps he is trying to force his ideas and style on a squad who dont quite fit what he needs. 

Credit to Frank for his honesty after the game, he looked furious and was totally honest about the game. 

Still just 1 game so not getting ahead of myself,  still worried about our lack of depth but 8 or 9 players played 70% of Wolves games last season from the start, so with a bit of luck, not losing key players like Wolves didnt, who knows.

Wow, much longer post then i expected, didnt mean for it to be that long?

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

13 minutes ago, Cjay said:

But i think your missing 3 types of players that Chelsea team had.

John Terry- A orrible man but a leader of men, a warrior, he wouldn't have allowed such carelessness from the midfield in just buggering off whenever an attack looked possible. Think you lacked a leader at the back, an organiser. - Curtis Davies. injured.

Didier Drogba- I thought Waghorn didnt look comfortable at all and was a strange signing, was very surprised Frank didn't go for someone more like Drogba, big, strong, able to occupy 2 cbs and bring the midfield runners into play, Rudy Gestede at Boro, someone like that (Frank himself was top scorer at Chelsea in Jose's 1st 2 seasons probably a lot to do with Drogba). Martin (abdominal issue/poor form for a couple of years, not that strong). Jerome big strong quite fast, not a hold up player. Marriot is the hope for this.

Claude Makelele- Probably the most important and yet most unheralded member of that Chelsea side. Credit to Frank for trying to fix it 2nd half but you desperately need someone like Makelele for his 4-3-3, someone to sit infront of the cbs at all times, protect and keep the ball, simple passes. Thorne (ruined by injury and looks never to recover), not sure Hudds can do it, more deep playmaker, ledley not the answer, johnson not composed enough. Evans?

I dont know if you have those 3 type of players in your squad, but i think until you get them or someone steps up to do the job then you will struggle with the 4-3-3. 

Also think Tom Lawrence is wasted on the wing. 3yup. Vydra scored 22 goals there last season, Lawrence could also score loads in that possition, but that possition doesn't exist in 4-3-3

 

Wow, much longer post then i expected, didnt mean for it to be that long?

 

Thanks for your well reasoned input. Only worry i could see for Leeds is resilience under sustained (much more than we did) pressure and burn out over the season, but good luck. A class above yesterday. Only positive for us is that that isn't a measure of what we can be and expect to be, but where we are now, and as brutal a lesson as it was, better o learn from it now. If in three months time we're still getting licked like that we might be more worried.

[Cjay]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Thanks for your well reasoned input. Only worry i could see for Leeds is resilience under sustained (much more than we did) pressure and burn out over the season, but good luck. A class above yesterday. Only positive for us is that that isn't a measure of what we can be and expect to be, but where we are now, and as brutal a lesson as it was, better o learn from it now. If in three months time we're still getting licked like that we might be more worried.

Curtis Davies probably makes a difference, bit surprised you didnt sign John Terry himself though, he was good for Villa.

Dont really know who Evans is mate tbh, maybe he can do it, could Huddlestone play a box to box role? Like Essien did for Chelsea when it was him Lampard and Makelele. 

Not sure Marriot is the answer, seems a bit similar to Waghorn, thats why i was surprised you signed Waghorn as well, not some great big brute, someone different. Maybe Jerome? biggest forward you have.

Agree, i do think our defence looks a bit flimsy at times, but we havent started Jansson yet, arguably our best defender and we are apparently hoping to bring a cb in on loan, Kalas mentioned. 

Burn out is a big concern, dont think the comparisons with last season are fair, we have taken 2 promotion favourites apart this time, last season a narrow win vs Bolton followed by two draws. 

True, dont think there is another Championship side who will play like we did against you, so its something to aim for,and for us to strive to maintain. 

Franks an intelligent man i think he will know what to do, whether he can i dont know.

 

But goodluck for the season ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

No Huddlestone couldn't play box to box in anything other than a walking team. But that's not his thing, he can however, pick a pass.

[Cjay]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

No Huddlestone couldn't play box to box in anything other than a walking team. But that's not his thing, he can however, pick a pass.

If he can defend to then maybe he is the answer.

[RamNut]

3 minutes ago, Cjay said:

If he can defend to then maybe he is the answer.

He can't.

[Cjay]

3 minutes ago, RamNut said:

He can't.

Oh . .balls to that idea then.