Tom Lawrence

[EnigmaRam]

Our financial issues are the wages to not cash. We need to lower them. If we want more signings then yes we need to sell someone for a good fee

[Bris Vegas]

25 minutes ago, McLovin said:

A Huddlestone- Mount- Vydra midfield would still get outrun and we’d be complaining about the same problems as last season.

        The midfield we played yesterday had the perfect balance

           Ledley- The defensive knowhow and the ability to prevent opposition counter attacks by being in the right position- almost like a new and improved eustace

          Bryson- Lots of energy to put the opposition under pressure and arguably the key man in Lampard’s system

         Mount- An all round creative midfielder, who also makes late runs into the box

Then sell Vydra and Lawrence. Wilson is a far better left-winger than Lawrence.

You say that having Vydra in midfield would get overrun. Wouldn't the same apply for putting Lawrence there? At least Vydra keeps the ball better. 

 

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Then sell Vydra and Lawrence. Wilson is a far better left-winger than Lawrence.

You say that having Vydra in midfield would get overrun. Wouldn't the same apply for putting Lawrence there? At least Vydra keeps the ball better. 

 

What are you on about? Nobody is saying put Lawrence in midfield, they're saying put Lawrence on the wing. Our midfield yesterday of Bryson, Mount and Ledley was perfectly balanced, if you put Vydra instead of Bryson you'd kill the balance. Complete nonsense Bris.

[Bris Vegas]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

What are you on about? Nobody is saying put Lawrence in midfield, they're saying put Lawrence on the wing. Our midfield yesterday of Bryson, Mount and Ledley was perfectly balanced, if you put Vydra instead of Bryson you'd kill the balance. Complete nonsense Bris.

Why would you put Lawrence on the wing when Harry Wilson is better? Or are you going to put Lawrence on the right wing? That would never work.

Harry Wilson > Tom Lawrence (at left wing)

Florian Jozefzoon > Tom Lawrence (at right wing)

Matej Vydra > Tom Lawrence (as an attacking midfielder)

Craig Bryson > Tom Lawrence (as an energetic runner / 3rd midfielder in a three)

If Stoke come in with a 10m offer, it would be pure madness to turn it down.

 

[nottingram]

I like the idea of football being as simple as literally telling Vydra to play as a central midfielder and that will be that. 

We should also tell Scott Carson to do more saves and Nugent to do more goals. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why would you put Lawrence on the wing when Harry Wilson is better? Or are you going to put Lawrence on the right wing? That would never work.

Harry Wilson > Tom Lawrence (at left wing)

Florian Jozefzoon > Tom Lawrence (at right wing)

Matej Vydra > Tom Lawrence (as an attacking midfielder)

Craig Bryson > Tom Lawrence (as an energetic runner / 3rd midfielder in a three)

If Stoke come in with a 10m offer, it would be pure madness to turn it down.

 

Except Wilson seemed to play perfectly well on the right wing yesterday. 

Lawrence is also our player, not a loan. What if we sell Lawrence, and in January Liverpool recall Wilson? We're screwed. We need to keep Lawrence, he's just starting to look good for us during preseason, it'd be a nonsense time to sell. 

Ignoring the fact that it's nonsense, considering the fact Stoke just signed McClean and will sign Ince within the next few days.

[derbydaz22]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

I like the idea of football being as simple as literally telling Vydra to play as a central midfielder and that will be that. 

We should also tell Scott Carson to do more saves and Nugent to do more goals. 

Or Bradley Johnson to pass the ball to feet.

[PistoldPete2]

25 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why? Because I don't rate Lawrence at all and think our squad is still unbalanced?

Nothing gave me greater pleasure than watching a brilliant, young, hungry Derby team beat a Billy Davies Forest side full on mercenaries 5-0. Unfortunately, since then, we've taken a leaf out of their book and replaced those same players which made us so exciting and replaced them with a bunch of agening, high-wage plodders.

 

Bris... If you take the Mac 1 team, we still have wisdom, forsyth, Keogh , thorne , Bryson and martin. Replaced grant, Buxton and  , eustace with  Carson , Davies and huddlestone , all younger than their counterparts. And also improvements imo.

weve lost hughes and Hendrick, big losses , but now gained mason mount and Harry Wilson... Probably the equivalent in terms of youthful promise, albeit only on loan. 

Replaced dawkins with flo Jo, an improvement I believe altho I did rate dawkins. Lost russell and ward but gained Lawrence. I know you don't rate him, but I still think he's better than either russell or ward. 

Weve lost bam- bam but gained vydra... Neither contribute that much apart from goals but I prefer vydra.

the oldsters you refer to include Jerome , nugent , ledley , all past their best for sure but still able to contribute if required even if only as squad members .johnson and buttefield massively overpriced but still very decent at this level. Anya I don't see the point of except  as a versatile squad member. 

we have youngsters like Lowe, Thomas, Bennett, bogle, bird all knocking on the door. 

All in in all I think our present squad while it does need rebalancing for sure, is almost certainly better than the mAc 1 squad. 

 

 

[Bris Vegas]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Bris... If you take the Mac 1 team, we still have wisdom, forsyth, Keogh , thorne , Bryson and martin. Replaced grant, Buxton and  , eustace with  Carson , Davies and huddlestone , all younger than their counterparts. And also improvements imo.

weve lost hughes and Hendrick, big losses , but now gained mason mount and Harry Wilson... Probably the equivalent in terms of youthful promise, albeit only on loan. 

Replaced dawkins with flo Jo, an improvement I believe altho I did rate dawkins. Lost russell and ward but gained Lawrence. I know you don't rate him, but I still think he's better than either russell or ward. 

Weve lost bam- bam but gained vydra... Neither contribute that much apart from goals but I prefer vydra.

the oldsters you refer to include Jerome , nugent , ledley , all past their best for sure but still able to contribute if required even if only as squad members .johnson and buttefield massively overpriced but still very decent at this level. Anya I don't see the point of except  as a versatile squad member. 

we have youngsters like Lowe, Thomas, Bennett, bogle, bird all knocking on the door. 

All in in all I think our present squad while it does need rebalancing for sure, is almost certainly better than the mAc 1 squad. 

 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions:

In the Mac 1 I thought Forsyth, Thorne and Martin were all better players then than they are now. Bryson was a 16-goal, 13-asssist attacking midfielder. The equivalent of a £15-20m midfielder in today's market.

Thorne was also a £10m player in today's market in that Mac1 spell.

Both are nowhere near that standard now.

Russell and Ward in 2013 were better than Lawrence is today. Obviously Lawrence is now a better player than both, as the other two are nearing retirement!

We lost Hughes and Hendrick, two top Championship players at the time. 

That 2013-14 side was vastly underrated. In today's market they'd be worth over £50m combined easily. Can you say this current XI is worth anywhere near that much? I can't...

[LB_DCFC]

18 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why would you put Lawrence on the wing when Harry Wilson is better? Or are you going to put Lawrence on the right wing? That would never work.

Harry Wilson > Tom Lawrence (at left wing)

Florian Jozefzoon > Tom Lawrence (at right wing)

 

You used stats to reinforce your point earlier in the thread, so I'll do it as well. Last season, according to whoscored, Lawrence performed better as a right winger compared to a left winger (7.21 avg rating v 7.16), better than Josefzoon's 7.08 avg rating at right winger, in Brentford's system, which was mote attacking than ours. Through the rating system, Lawrence out performed Sessengon of Fulham last season, which suggests that he's got to be doing something right, even if the system has it's flaws. Of course he's going to have a high number of unsuccessful dribbles and the like, because his purpose is to attack defenders. The more you attack defenders, the more you're going to get tackled, that should be obvious. He played in a rigid, defence first system last season and still managed to get 6 goals and 7 assists, and having seen how he performed yesterday, i can envisage him outperforming that, and by some way too.  

[minesahartington]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

For someone who pretends to be so clued up on football, this really is a clueless post. Huddlestone and Mount in a midfield two would be useless.

Oh I don’t know Rowett would deffo give it a try

[TommyPowell]

47 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Why would you put Lawrence on the wing when Harry Wilson is better? Or are you going to put Lawrence on the right wing? That would never work.

Harry Wilson > Tom Lawrence (at left wing)

Florian Jozefzoon > Tom Lawrence (at right wing)

Matej Vydra > Tom Lawrence (as an attacking midfielder)

Craig Bryson > Tom Lawrence (as an energetic runner / 3rd midfielder in a three)

If Stoke come in with a 10m offer, it would be pure madness to turn it down.

 

you are talking as though football was only an eleven man team sport.Even I at my age knows the substitutes are just as important as the eleven who kick off

PS why not just come out and say you dont rate Lawerence at all but then again i suppose you said the same about Vydra 2 years ago

 

[Dimmu]

29 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions:

In the Mac 1 I thought Forsyth, Thorne and Martin were all better players then than they are now. Bryson was a 16-goal, 13-asssist attacking midfielder. The equivalent of a £15-20m midfielder in today's market.

Thorne was also a £10m player in today's market in that Mac1 spell.

Both are nowhere near that standard now.

Russell and Ward in 2013 were better than Lawrence is today. Obviously Lawrence is now a better player than both, as the other two are nearing retirement!

We lost Hughes and Hendrick, two top Championship players at the time. 

That 2013-14 side was vastly underrated. In today's market they'd be worth over £50m combined easily. Can you say this current XI is worth anywhere near that much? I can't...

5

Erm... Since when have you started to appreciate Hendrick? Was it when we sold him? I remember you using totally different words of him.

You must be the only football fan in the world who has a negative bias towards own team.

[Jimbo Ram]

22 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Erm... Since when have you started to appreciate Hendrick? Was it when we sold him? I remember you using totally different words of him.

You must be the only football fan in the world who has a negative bias towards own team.

I would sell Vydra and keep Lawrence, think Lawrence might have a great season this season....

[Abu Dhabi Ram]

Lawrence played last season under Rowett! Just let that sink in for a minute...

This season we will see the true Lawrence and I think we would be foolish to cash in now.

[PistoldPete2]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions:

In the Mac 1 I thought Forsyth, Thorne and Martin were all better players then than they are now. Bryson was a 16-goal, 13-asssist attacking midfielder. The equivalent of a £15-20m midfielder in today's market.

Thorne was also a £10m player in today's market in that Mac1 spell.

Both are nowhere near that standard now.

Russell and Ward in 2013 were better than Lawrence is today. Obviously Lawrence is now a better player than both, as the other two are nearing retirement!

We lost Hughes and Hendrick, two top Championship players at the time. 

That 2013-14 side was vastly underrated. In today's market they'd be worth over £50m combined easily. Can you say this current XI is worth anywhere near that much? I can't...

Yes. I think vydra and Lawrence should fetch £20 million. Mount and Wilson £20 million more although sadly not for us. The rest would easily fetch £10 million probably more. 

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Yes. I think vydra and Lawrence should fetch £20 million. Mount and Wilson £20 million more although sadly not for us. The rest would easily fetch £10 million probably more. 

Crazy talk.

[Uptherams]

Lampard will show him how to finish more consistently and give him a more free role. He will get 15 league goals this season. 

[Andicis]

15 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Crazy talk.

Almost as crazy as writing off a season that hasn't started, right? ?

[Carl Sagan]

For once I'm 100% with @Bris Vegason this. The thread turned a little into would you rather sell Lawrence and Vydra and some have said Lawrence only had a relatively poor return last season because he played under Rowett and so had to fit in with Rowettball. Well, so did Vydra and he still scored 21 league goals.

Lawrence obviouly has considerable ability but he's a big fish in a small pond player. He is our most selfish attacker. That works if you're in a team where no one else is creating, and you have to do it all yourself, but it's not the way if your team is full of goals. I suspect this team will indeed be full of goals next season, all the more if players are constantly one-touch passing and setting each other up. That's just not Tom. He takes the ball, gets his head down and shoots or gets tackled, regardless of who might be better placed.

I don't mind having him in the side and obviously he showed yesterday he can contribute. But there were many times he should have passed and instead went alone. If anyone seriously offered £10m, as Bris says it's a no-brainer. We have three first teams and we have Wilson, Josefzoon, Thomas, Blackman and Anya who can also play the wide roles (not including the likes of Bennett who's done that before too).