Jump to content

2018 to 2020:How can England make the next step?


sage

Recommended Posts

I was quite mean about Southgate's ability on here before but fair play to the guy, turns out England was just crying out for someone with decency and values.

Anyway mea culpa aside... I think we need a Plan B for controlling games. Went 1-0 ahead and changed absolutely nothing even when we were under pressure. Did the same thing vs Colombia. I realise these are knock out games and so the tempo is going to rise, but there seemed to be no credible options. Dele Alli and Kane were basically immobile in extra time... but why was nobody a better choice?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 47
  • Created
  • Last Reply
26 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Tell me, exactly when was Wilshere's peak? I don't think he was ever ''sublime'' he was grossly overrated by the English press on the back of a good game vs Barcelona. I've not watched games where I thought ''Wilshere took over this game'' I have with Modric. Modric is a serial winner, and been at a top level for about 10 years. Wilshere had a few good months, to which even then his peak wasn't comparable to Modric. Modric will go down as one of the best midfielders of his generation, Wilshere will go down as a sicknote.

PFA Young POTY suggests it was more than just ‘one game’, I remember him at his absoloute best against Brazil for England before dropping deep under Hodgson and racking up something like 12 MOTM’s on the spin. 

Technically he could/can do everything Modric can. Range of passing, ability in tight spaces, carrying the ball… perhaps Modric carried the ball quicker. 

Football is all about circumstance and people allow it to cloud their judgement of a player. Yes, fitness issues have sent Wilshere’s career into a totally different trajectory but there’s an absoloutely magnificent footballer in there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dcfcfan1 said:

Until you produce a player who can dictate the pace of the game and pick out a pass like a kroos, isco, pirlo, iniesta then not a chance you can win the world cup. 

Defensive solidarity, organisation, pace and power can only get you so far. The lack of ability in technical ability in englands squad was there to see this world cup 

While I agree a centre midfield player to pass it around a bit would be nice but we don’t play with a system that would utilize one. 

Isco...how many world cups has he won...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

Technically he could/can do everything Modric can. Range of passing, ability in tight spaces, carrying the ball… perhaps Modric carried the ball quicker. 

 

Please stop. It's hurting my head now. I'm absolutely convinced you've only ever watched a few games of Modric in your life if you hold this opinion. 

 

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

there’s an absoloutely magnificent footballer in there. 

Except he hasn't ever shown it. He's a sicknote, with a bad attitude. Everything England doesn't need to harm the team spirit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Please stop. It's hurting my head now. I'm absolutely convinced you've only ever watched a few games of Modric in your life if you hold this opinion. 

 

Except he hasn't ever shown it. He's a sicknote, with a bad attitude. Everything England doesn't need to harm the team spirit. 

Sorry for not rating based off of medals or careers and off of what I see lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Alpha said:

I would never ever suggest Leicester were lucky or got an easy route or their wins weren't winny enough or criticise that their goals came from here or there.

They finished where they deserved to finish. 

I wouldn't expect them to finish up there again because I didn't think they could maintain that level of football. 

Whereas I think England can get better. Leicester imo couldn't but Man City could go out and spend £100m. 

International football doesn't compare because clubs have budgets and pull factor. 

 

International teams can't go out and spend money on players, but they can develop them. Just because they can't buy in players doesn't mean they will stand still.

Germany have a lot of young players who were part of the Confederations Cup winning team who Löw shunned in this WC in favour of some of the old guard who didn't produce.

Spain won't have the upheaval of having lost their manager one day beforethe WC starts next time. Argentina might actually have a midfield like they're supposed to.

Yes, all those nations disappointed this year, but they're not going to just shrug it off and chalk it up to a bad year. There will be inquests, changes, new ideas etc. It won't open up for England like that again for a long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think there’s still a lot of football snobbery going on..... I see people still complain of “pub teams” etc but the truth is in last 20 years the national teams we thought were no good have caught up..... that’s the main fact..... smaller nations have become more advanced and have decent tactics and have learnt to use their resources well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

International teams can't go out and spend money on players, but they can develop them. Just because they can't buy in players doesn't mean they will stand still.

Germany have a lot of young players who were part of the Confederations Cup winning team who Löw shunned in this WC in favour of some of the old guard who didn't produce.

Spain won't have the upheaval of having lost their manager one day beforethe WC starts next time. Argentina might actually have a midfield like they're supposed to.

Yes, all those nations disappointed this year, but they're not going to just shrug it off and chalk it up to a bad year. There will be inquests, changes, new ideas etc. It won't open up for England like that again for a long time.

Why won't England get better? 

Unlike Germany, England went with their youth and made the semi final with them.

Spain haven't really learned a lesson in 3 tournaments. 

Argentina might have a midfield but they might not. They might not have that strike force though. They will 100% be losing the best player ever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, dcfcfan1 said:

Until you produce a player who can dictate the pace of the game and pick out a pass like a kroos, isco, pirlo, iniesta then not a chance you can win the world cup. 

Defensive solidarity, organisation, pace and power can only get you so far. The lack of ability in technical ability in englands squad was there to see this world cup 

Not a chance?? We were very close to making the World Cup final without the cliche of the player you are suggesting.

No team is going to have every type of good player, you have to make the best of what you have got. Like we pretty much did.

France won in 98 without a good striker for example. Not really sure they have got someone this time who can dictate the pace of play. They seem to not offer much, then one if their best players does something out of nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, sage said:

The 2020 European Championships will be played around Europe in 12 cities, with the semi finals and final at Wembley.

Having reached the semi final of the World Cup this summer, how can England get to the final in 2 years time?

 

<bribes and roids and bribes and roids>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Andicis said:

Wilshere close to Modric!? Seriously..!? Luka Modric has won the Champions League 4x, the Spanish League once, and the Spanish Cup once. Wilshere has 2 FA cups. Wilshere is the most overrated midfielder in English history, he dines out from one good game against Barcelona, and has proceeded to achieve little to nothing the rest of his career. How can you even compare the two? One is the best midfielder in the biggest club in world football, the other signed for West Ham ffs. 

Overall, I have to agree with you regarding Wilshire. Some points I think you go overboard with. I don't see evidence of Wilshire having a bad attitude. For me the most telling point in his career was his season loan at Bournemouth where he looked no better or worse than many of the other Bournemouth players. If Wilshire really was the special talent that people make him out to be he would've looked a cut above. It's really bizarre to see so many England fans saying Wilshire should've gone to the tournament.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Anon said:

Overall, I have to agree with you regarding Wilshire. Some points I think you go overboard with. I don't see evidence of Wilshire having a bad attitude. For me the most telling point in his career was his season loan at Bournemouth where he looked no better or worse than many of the other Bournemouth players. If Wilshire really was the special talent that people make him out to be he would've looked a cut above. It's really bizarre to see so many England fans saying Wilshire should've gone to the tournament.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11391406/Arsenal-news-Jack-Wilshere-in-new-smoking-storm.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/arsene-wenger-jack-wilshere-arsenal-reaction-a7909831.html

If you followed his career, he's been a bit of an overall nasty rick wherever he's been. Caught smoking multiple times, assaulted youth players etc etc. Not a nice individual. Above that, I don't think he's a very good player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He only has to pass wind go get a headline and a cap.

He is the exact same player he was years ago. Which was exciting years ago but not so much now. 

But... he's better than Eric Dier. So am I though

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How to take the next step? A cap on the number of non-British players at domestic level.

If we're truthful England's performances at this world cup have been fairly ordinary.  Nothing to do with 'heart' or 'desire'. Nothing to do with the coaching staff or the systems and tactics used, quite simply, the teams that are likely to reach finals have better players than England.

I don't believe other countries produce more intrinsically better players, but they are better at bringing those players through and getting the best out of them. Whilst ever our top division allows teams to be something like 70% non-English, then not enough young players will get a regular game and will therefore never fully realise the talent that they have.

At present, the pool of talent available for the English team is just not big enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Dier was actually okay today... but overall like you say, he's been completely naff. He's not a midfielder.

I think I watch him too closely now because defensively he got caught out of position a lot. He let's people run off him onto defenders all the time while he jogs back with the "Well I'm never going to catch the ball so..." No, not the ball Eric but probably the guy that's just strolled past you and now has the freedom of our third. 

A lot of DM's get to hide behind dominant possession teams. Mascarell could look like a world beater one minute and a donkey the next. 

I used to play that position (badly obviously) but it's one I liked because you have more passing options than anyone else. You're surrounded by options. Pretty passing is easy. Effective passing is something Dier does pretty average. And protecting the grass in front of his center backs so they aren't exposed is something he does worse than Bradley Johnson. He's shocking. Truly bad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 14/07/2018 at 17:20, Andicis said:

Dier was actually okay today... but overall like you say, he's been completely naff. He's not a midfielder.

I have no issue with you slating Wilshere, he's not everyone's flavour. I have a lot of issue with you then saying Dier was okay v Belgium though.

Their first goal doesn't happen if Henderson is playing. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I have no issue with you slating Wilshere, he's not everyone's flavour. I have a lot of issue with you then saying Dier was okay v Belgium though.

Their first goal doesn't happen if Henderson is playing. 

 

The first goal is more on Rose for me than Dier, personally. Thought some of Dier's passing was alright too, didn't think it was a terrible performance to be honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

The first goal is more on Rose for me than Dier, personally. Thought some of Dier's passing was alright too, didn't think it was a terrible performance to be honest.

He's just not international quality. 

Wouldn't stand out in a Huddersfield type lower prem side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

He's just not international quality. 

Wouldn't stand out in a Huddersfield type lower prem side.

The merit of him is in his versatility. He can cover CB and CDM. It's also a fact that England lacks quality midfielders. I hope before the next world cup we have a few come through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...