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HantsRam

A Trip to Trump-ton

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3 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

So I'm not just ignoring something I'm now guilty of something. We don't know what though.

 

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Posted (edited)

Groups like ANTIFA are simply a reaction to masked ENGLISHMEN slinging Nazi salutes on our streets and seeking violent confrontation wherever they go. The EDL, BNP and the like... There are videos all over the web of these guys being run out of Liverpool, Manchester and and other UK cities and not by ANTIFA, but by normal working folk who despise everything they stand for. ANTIFA are the sharp end of that same reaction whether folks like to acknowledge it or not. Violence begets only more violence as elements within both camps know only too well. 

Edited by 86 points

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1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

I won't call you a fascist. Nothing vastly outrageous in what you said, although I don't agree with your main argument. 

The fascists are the ones who wave their right arms in the air, carry swastika flags and say Hitler was right. Still waiting to hear what he was right about though, the previous attempt to find out only got one response. 

The anti fascists go where these people go, in order to oppose them physically. They know this will be violent. They cover their faces because the police won't care which side they were on.

I have no problem with people fighting fascism with physical force. We had a war about this a long time ago and we agreed back then they should not be allowed legitimate platform for their vile politics. 

Violence, whether its far-right or far-left shouldn't be condoned imo, hence my dislike for almost everything antifa does.

With regards to people making nazi salutes, carrying swastikas etc then hopefully the police will identify them and 'have a word'.  Covering your face at a rally should see you instantly pulled over though imo - surely there is intent to cause trouble there?

Regardless, talking to EDL would have been my approach.  One of their biggest grievances is their views being silenced by the mainstream media - giving them a platform removes that.  It also gets their agenda out in the open enabling it to be discussed rationally.  One of their current concerns are the muslim rape gangs - the official report to which stated that fear of being called racist lead to cases not being investigated properly.

Refusing to acknowledge right wing groups only furthers their belief that they are being censored or dismissed.  It also leads to more extreme measures;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/02/collapse-bnp-edl-far-right-terrorists

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21 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I don't deny that an element of the TR rally are nutters though - I just don't claim that its all of them nor that they were the ones starting all of the trouble.  In the video I posted (and there are others online) you have a TR supporter throwing nazi salutes and a bunch of antifa with their faces covered. 

I shouldn't have to say this but I guess it needs spelling out,  I don't agree with the TR supporter and I don't agree with the antifa's motives for being there.  If I had been pushing the agenda you seem to think I want to push, I would have simply posted a video purely showing antifa.

My agenda is and has always been one of free speech and balanced reporting.  I very rarely give opinions because certain people on here like to label you as something based on nothing more than what they think you say - or in some cases things I haven't said.  In my brief time on here most of what I see is small-minded petty arguments and name calling and tbh I've got better things to do than spend my days defending myself against slurs.

For the sake of making myself clear.  I believe in free speech.  I don't believe the anti-Trump rally was the right thing to do (regardless of your opinions on Trump, USA are one of, if not the most important of our allies) *but* I would defend peoples right to march.  Therefore it would be bigoted of me not to defend the right of the TR or pro-Trump rallies not to go ahead.  Believing in their right to march is not the same as believing in their cause.

I would strongly disagree with antifa's rally however as imo its motives were to antagonise - just as I would have disagreed with the pro-Trump rally if it was scheduled to take place on the same day as the anti-Trump rally.

Furthermore, and I have mentioned this before in other topics, but I also believe that the government should have spoken to the EDL (before it become violent, which incidentally was why TR left).  TR and his supporters have some very valid concerns that aren't being heard in the mainstream media.  Talking about issues, getting them out in the opinion, removes the perceived veil of secrecy and would imo take a lot of wind from beneath the sails of TR and right wing movements on both sides of the Atlantic.

If we could talk to the IRA, you know, real murderers of the innocent and resolve differences, I'm sure we could have spoken to a few knuckleheads, discussed their issues and prevented the likes of Trump etc getting anywhere near power to begin with.

Make of that what you will.  I simply think that resolving our differences through talking (even to people you don't like) is preferable to ignoring them and hoping they will go away.  Feel free to call me a fascist though for not instantly condemning everyone though.

What a pile of mealy-mouthed shizzle. You're just here to act as a moral compass? Really?!?

Best we just ignore each other mate. I can't take you seriously at all.

 

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10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I won't call you a fascist. Nothing vastly outrageous in what you said, although I don't agree with your main argument. 

The fascists are the ones who wave their right arms in the air, carry swastika flags and say Hitler was right. Still waiting to hear what he was right about though, the previous attempt to find out only got one response. 

The anti fascists go where these people go, in order to oppose them physically. They know this will be violent. They cover their faces because the police won't care which side they were on.

I have no problem with people fighting fascism with physical force. We had a war about this a long time ago and we agreed back then they should not be allowed legitimate platform for their vile politics. 

The anti Muslims go where Muslims go in order to oppose them physically,, they know this will be violent , they don’t cover their faces cause they don’t give a poo,,

should I have a problem with people fighting Islam with physical force ,, we had many wars about that a long time ago and we agreed back then that Islam should not be allowed to spread its dogma opposing Christianity ,,

yep see how things work on here now 

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7 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

For example - I totally agree that there are elements of antifa who want a tear up, and as I've said many times - they don't speak for me. I think we both agree that peaceful protest is the only way?

Absolutely.  I'll defend everyones right to protest peacefully, be they far-right, far-left and everything in between.

 

9 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

But if we're talking antagonism - those who chose to fly a balloon with the Muslim Mayor Of London's face on a pig were also clearly trying to antagonise too. Pretty sure the police taking it down was more to do with keeping the peace. The Trump balloon (which - I thought was pretty childish and stupid) was only meant to (somehow?) embarrass/annoy the President. The Khan/Pig balloon was meant to antagonise and inflame the situation. Fair comment?

Agreed the Khan/Pig balloon was a racial slur.  If the pro-Trump protest had got their act together and made the equivalent of the Trump balloon, my response would be to either allow both or refuse both.

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11 minutes ago, 86 points said:

What a pile of mealy-mouthed shizzle. You're just here to act as a moral compass? Really?!?

Best we just ignore each other mate. I can't take you seriously at all.

 

Don't ducking start again, mate. 

Otherwise I will ignore your PM as mealy-mouthed poo, too.

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6 minutes ago, archied said:

The anti Muslims go where Muslims go in order to oppose them physically,, they know this will be violent , they don’t cover their faces cause they don’t give a poo,,

should I have a problem with people fighting Islam with physical force ,, we had many wars about that a long time ago and we agreed back then that Islam should not be allowed to spread its dogma opposing Christianity ,,

yep see how things work on here now 

You're equating Islam with fascism? 

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5 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Absolutely.  I'll defend everyones right to protest peacefully, be they far-right, far-left and everything in between.

 

Agreed the Khan/Pig balloon was a racial slur.  If the pro-Trump protest had got their act together and made the equivalent of the Trump balloon, my response would be to either allow both or refuse both.

One is satire (no matter how puerile it may have been), the other is a racial slur, as you put it. The problem with your claim to moral balance is that you are wholly unable to differentiate between the two. Can't think why...  

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2 minutes ago, Norman said:

Don't ducking start again, mate. 

Otherwise I will ignore your PM as mealy-mouthed poo, too.

Does this mean our date is cancelled? 

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Don’t sit on the sidelines, let your voice be heard!

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