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Cam the Ram

John McGinn - Joined Aston Villa

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1 hour ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I think everyone and his dog knows this will end up a lost cause so hopefully we have moved to plan B already.

 

Maybe this is a ploy to our number 1 target's club, a reduce your offer otherwise we will look elsewhere type interest. 

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Would be interested to see how this turns out, if he has ambition and we’re keen on him Derby is the clear choice. He could go to Celtic and win an easy title every year or you could challenge yourself in the championship -  if you do well and get  promoted you get the chance to play in the premier league and the chance to make a name for yourself. Not to mention the fact you get to learn from FL. 

I would also argue at Celtic you’re not playing with or against any better players than you’ll find in the championship. 

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PistoldPete2
3 hours ago, Mr Giggles said:

Yeah, we haven't got many of them have we.....

No. No attacking ones anyway.

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2 hours ago, DcfcJB said:

Would be interested to see how this turns out, if he has ambition and we’re keen on him Derby is the clear choice. He could go to Celtic and win an easy title every year or you could challenge yourself in the championship -  if you do well and get  promoted you get the chance to play in the premier league and the chance to make a name for yourself. Not to mention the fact you get to learn from FL. 

I would also argue at Celtic you’re not playing with or against any better players than you’ll find in the championship. 

Quote

I would also argue at Celtic you’re not playing with or against any better players than you’ll find in the championship.

 

League 1/2 you mean.....

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2 hours ago, reveldevil said:

Maybe Celtic don't play against as many good teams over a season as we do, but I bet you'll find it's an easier route to a Premier League big money move playing for them than us.

I’m not going to bother researching this but I bet you’ll find more players make the step up from championship - prem each season. For arguments sake you have at least 16 players from each team that gets promoted... about 4/5 of them will also get bumper deals as they ore than likely had great seasons in the champ then you have your add-hock players that prem teams pick up from the championship each year.... 

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On 24/06/2018 at 22:44, richinspain said:

I think that most would agree that the Scottish Prem is 80% League 1 level, but a few teams, and certainly Celtic are one of them, are bottom English Prem level. Celtic although unable to get into the knockout stages of the Champions League have had some very good results in their group games over recent years. Results that I'm sure Derby wouldn't be able to replicate. If he's good enough for Celtic he's good enough for Derby.

A lot of people slate the Scottish league, but the players that have played for the big 2 (Celtic & Rangers) suggest you are right in what you say. It has been a 2 team league for as long as anyone can realistically remember and those 2 teams have probably been top half of championship/bottom half of premier league most of that time. (Obviously Rangers aren't at that level at the moment).

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12 hours ago, Jackal said:

A lot of people slate the Scottish league, but the players that have played for the big 2 (Celtic & Rangers) suggest you are right in what you say. It has been a 2 team league for as long as anyone can realistically remember and those 2 teams have probably been top half of championship/bottom half of premier league most of that time. (Obviously Rangers aren't at that level at the moment).

Although if Celtic and Rangers were in the prem they would quickly be in the top half due to the increased revenue and fan base but i take your point 

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19 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Although if Celtic and Rangers were in the prem they would quickly be in the top half due to the increased revenue and fan base but i take your point 

So would most teams. Currently Celtic have the squad of a top 6 Championship side, Rangers a League 1 team and the bottom 6 teams are League 2/National League equivalents. It is an incredibly poor league...ranked 26th league in Europe according to UEFA, behind Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, Romania, Cyprus ad Israel and just above Balarus…..

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I remember the late 80s/early 90s when Celtic weren't really a force and Aberdeen/Hearts were the nearest competitors to Rangers.  I'm a little too young to remember Aberdeen's success under Ferguson. 

Ironically Rangers were quality then due largely to an English core of Woods, Stevens, Butcher, Steven, Roberts, Walters and ageing Trevor Francis and Ray Wilkins - players that were very capable of playing in the English top flight. Supplemented by the odd decent Scot (McCoist) and a fair few Scots who I can't recall.

They maintained domination despite moving most of the English on and buying more consistently from their own league, but when they mixed an increasing amount of overseas players in the wheels fell off. The few English players they did sign (Gazza and the return of Steven excepted) dropped dramatically in quality.

When Celtic finally ended Rangers 9 year domination with a largely homegrown team, and I think through the years where they switched maintained more of a national identity in their squad.  This combined with a fair few big money flops at Rangers, and a lack of success by both in Europe pretty much set a precident for them to live more within their means and instead of buying big players they started buying players who for the most part were good enough to win the title and that's it.

As a result in the past 25 years any genuine successes moving from Scotland are pretty rare, and mostly foreigners who effectively used using the league as a stepping stone.: van Dijk, Arteta, van Hooijdonk, Wanyama, Forster, maybe van Bronkhorst, Petrov and Viduka.  The Scots themselves are mostly Alan Huttons.

On the contrary, of course as many as 80 or 90 players make the step up from the championship annually via promotion, not including the direct signings, I'd imagine half stay there in some way shape or form. Of course not so many make the same level as the afforementioned - looking at top/our world cup squads Ashley Young, Luke Shaw, Aaron Ramsey, Rob Holding, Dele Alli, Nathanial Clyne, Kieran Trippier, Adam Lallana, Fabien Delph, Jack Butland, Jamie Vardy. Danny Ings, John Stones, Harry Maguire, Gary Cahill  all came via the lower leagues, not to mention many of the others having loan experience there.

With regards to players coming from Scotland most go to Championship sides at best, and most players going to Scotland are winding down there career or haven't made much impact here. 

That was all a long way of saying that we get very few players from Scotland that make the grade, and a very small proportion are actually Scottish, I'd hazard a guess that even taking it's size or number of European competition qualifying sides to provide a more balanced representation we get more from 8 or 9 other world leagues on average.

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About 10-12 years ago I watched cup semi final at Hampden Park between Rangers and Hearts. I was shocked at the poor quality. I don't think it was even league 1 on that showing.

We have played Rangers in a friendly since then and they were significantly better than us, so it's a difficult call.

My take is that Celtic and Rangers are lower premier league, and the rest are lower Championship / upper league 1.

Note that I'm placing Rangers there historically rather than currently simply because their current level is artificially deflated by their forced demotion a few years back, which they're still recovering from.

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1 hour ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Could argue the case for Andy Robertson, done pretty well since leaving Dundee - but perhaps the exception that proves the rule.

I thought maybe him, he did get to Liverpool via Hull, makes a change from Southampton.

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