1967Ram Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, David said: Another one of your conspiracy theories. Rowett wasn’t going to get the boot, call it what you want but he wasn’t. Still had the clubs full support. I think you could be right that he wasn't going to get the boot. Not sure about the full support though. I'm pretty sure there are some 'up top' in the Club who wouldn't have been enamoured with the football. Whether that included Mel is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, David said: Another one of your conspiracy theories. Rowett wasn’t going to get the boot, call it what you want but he wasn’t. Still had the clubs full support. In that case, another poor decision by Mel. Limped into the play offs, out thought during them, and now you're saying he was completely behind Rowett, despite ever lowering levels of enthusiasm from the supporters. In which case, let's hope he's lucky rather than good, and has hit the jackpot with Lampard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, reveldevil said: In that case, another poor decision by Mel. Limped into the play offs, out thought during them, and now you're saying he was completely behind Rowett, despite ever lowering levels of enthusiasm from the supporters. In which case, let's hope he's lucky rather than good, and has hit the jackpot with Lampard. Spot on revel but we all know Mel's not one to be messed about with and if rowett had left him in the lurch he wouldn't have been waved out of the club with the cheery wave that he was. Mel got what he wanted all round,no doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, 1967Ram said: I think you could be right that he wasn't going to get the boot. Not sure about the full support though. I'm pretty sure there are some 'up top' in the Club who wouldn't have been enamoured with the football. Whether that included Mel is anyone's guess. I’m sure there was a feeling inside that this could be done better with the fans onside, no club wants to see a divide in the fan base whilst chasing promotion. Some clubs fans embrace it, Cardiff, Burnley, but Steve McClaren has left with setting a bar that all managers will now be judged on. I don’t remember this attractive free flowing football under Todd, Clough, Brown, Jewell, Gregory or the man that took us up Billy Davies. Has the demand grown with rise of social media? What’s also interesting is “The Derby Way” which Mel was mocked for appears to be what we’re demanding. (The Derby Way isn’t just the style on the pitch I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, reveldevil said: In that case, another poor decision by Mel. Limped into the play offs, out thought during them, and now you're saying he was completely behind Rowett, despite ever lowering levels of enthusiasm from the supporters. In which case, let's hope he's lucky rather than good, and has hit the jackpot with Lampard. Where as a good decision would have been to sack the man that took us into the play off semi finals, come on Revel, we know how the summer would have gone had he pulled the trigger on yet another manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, David said: Where as a good decision would have been to sack the man that took us into the play off semi finals, come on Revel, we know how the summer would have gone had he pulled the trigger on yet another manager. No we don't. He wasn't that popular a manager and many would have waited to see who his replacement was before deciding whether Mel was right or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, David said: Where as a good decision would have been to sack the man that took us into the play off semi finals, come on Revel, we know how the summer would have gone had he pulled the trigger on yet another manager. In all honesty, I'd have pulled the plug after Burton. Madder than Mel, me. I certainly wouldn't have given him another summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, David said: I’m sure there was a feeling inside that this could be done better with the fans onside, no club wants to see a divide in the fan base whilst chasing promotion. Some clubs fans embrace it, Cardiff, Burnley, but Steve McClaren has left with setting a bar that all managers will now be judged on. I don’t remember this attractive free flowing football under Todd, Clough, Brown, Jewell, Gregory or the man that took us up Billy Davies. Has the demand grown with rise of social media? What’s also interesting is “The Derby Way” which Mel was mocked for appears to be what we’re demanding. (The Derby Way isn’t just the style on the pitch I know) just win games matey the tone of supporters changes with the tide,the Derby way, don't make me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, reveldevil said: In all honesty, I'd have pulled the plug after Burton. Madder than Mel, me. I certainly wouldn't have given him another summer. You may have done, but how do you think it would have gone down had Mel sacked Rowett 5 months after giving him a new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: No we don't. He wasn't that popular a manager and many would have waited to see who his replacement was before deciding whether Mel was right or not. mm always did like to give snakes a second chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydaz22 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, David said: I’m sure there was a feeling inside that this could be done better with the fans onside, no club wants to see a divide in the fan base whilst chasing promotion. Some clubs fans embrace it, Cardiff, Burnley, but Steve McClaren has left with setting a bar that all managers will now be judged on. I don’t remember this attractive free flowing football under Todd, Clough, Brown, Jewell, Gregory or the man that took us up Billy Davies. Has the demand grown with rise of social media? What’s also interesting is “The Derby Way” which Mel was mocked for appears to be what we’re demanding. (The Derby Way isn’t just the style on the pitch I know) Glad you missed out Burley some really good stuff on a budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, derbydaz22 said: Glad you missed out Burley some really good stuff on a budget Jim Smith, George Burley and Steve McClaren are the only managers that have played football which would be acceptable these days, that’s 10 years of football in my time at 36 years old. Some fans with these high demands are a lot younger than myself, I’m not sure where it’s come from other than McClaren’s brief tenure. Sky Sports, YouTube with social media used to gain momentum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Come on, really. Some of this is somewhat unbelievable. He was going to get the boot from Mel anyway? But the club gave him a new contract, and had they gone down that route it would have been money to pay him off - highly unlikely. There was no indication of this and it just sounds a bit bitter and childish. Like being dumped as a kid "Yeah, well I was going to dump you anyway" It wasn't the best football but it was effective, to say it's the worst since we were relegated? Well I can't agree really plus I've seen teams play under Gregory, Jewell, BD before that so lets not go overboard on the poor football. Top 6 was never a prospect when the season started, it became more of an expectation after we went 2nd but at the start of the season few people had top 6 as a must, it was more of a hope. Comes down to this. Effective/boring football will be tolerated by fans if it gets results. The moment it doesn't then the knives will be out. Leave the club after the boring football and your tenure will be known for that style and not the success you brought. I don't like the way Rowett left us (also didn't like to watch the football under him), lacked class in my eyes as he signed a contract but as soon as a club with more prospects, in terms fo finances, came along he was off. He's looking after himself, some may say fair enough but I think the manner he did it showed that Rowett cares about Rowett. Good riddance, I'm excited about what we have now so maybe we can all move on and stop talking about the guy now as some people sound like they're not over him yet. Anyway - wasn't this about Chris Martin? We think today was about fitness or showing him to the QPR watchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 hours ago, David said: Second most successful manager since the turn of the millennium in terms of win percentage at Birmingham. Hughton 41.9% Rowett 39.6% Bruce 37.0% McCleish 36.9% Redknapp 30.8% Clarke 28.4% Cotterill 25.9% Zola 8.3% Derby he has the 5th best win ratio since the turn of the millennium. As I said we have had a lot worse, a hell of a lot worse, but the way some fans talk he’s a clueless noddy that took us into the dark ages which is not even close to being the truth. McClaren 54.2% Wassall 50% Davies 44.9% McClaren II 44.8% Rowett 43.3% Clement 42.4% Burley 36.4% Clough 32.9% Gregory 29.0% Westley 25% Todd 23.5% Jewell 22.4% Pearson 21.4% Brown 21.1% Aren't some of those Brum managers from when they were in the PL? But anyway, does being Birmingham's 2nd highest win % and Derby's 5th since 2000 really count for success? Especially when it makes Wassall the 2nd. I know he's not clueless. But you also have some fans saying he's successful, he is one of the most promising young English managers and comparing him to Warnock. He's not succeeded anywhere yet. He perhaps had the chance at Burton and Brum but left and was sacked. Simon Grayson has shown more imo. And the comparison with Warnock is not a good one because he's got a massive CV to pull out with a shoebox of medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, David said: I’m sure there was a feeling inside that this could be done better with the fans onside, no club wants to see a divide in the fan base whilst chasing promotion. Some clubs fans embrace it, Cardiff, Burnley, but Steve McClaren has left with setting a bar that all managers will now be judged on. I don’t remember this attractive free flowing football under Todd, Clough, Brown, Jewell, Gregory or the man that took us up Billy Davies. Has the demand grown with rise of social media? What’s also interesting is “The Derby Way” which Mel was mocked for appears to be what we’re demanding. (The Derby Way isn’t just the style on the pitch I know) The Derby way you refer to was entirely Mel's creation, and it was he who put it into the public domain, and I was all for it, it was consistent with his words until then. I remember any mocking came from outside the club, and any internal criticism came from the appointment of Pearson. The appointment of Pearson was certainly the antithesis of it, and I'll give Mel the benefit of the doubt and say Gary talked him into believing he'd play the 'Derby' way too. Between those appointments however, he re-employed Mac, declared that the Derby Way was in effect the Mac way, then bizarrely sacked him, but only after he'd given a striker deemed surplus to requirements a fat new contract at the request of said manager! We now are hopefully seeing the re-emergence of the Derby way under Lampard, but it's far more by luck than judgement. Social media didn't give rise to the 'Derby Way', Mel did, and now, by hook or by crook, it seems to have returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydaz22 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, David said: Jim Smith, George Burley and Steve McClaren are the only managers that have played football which would be acceptable these days, that’s 10 years of football in my time at 36 years old. Some fans with these high demands are a lot younger than myself, I’m not sure where it’s come from other than McClaren’s brief tenure. Sky Sports, YouTube with social media used to gain momentum? I think everyone wants to be entertained surely? Yes we all want promotion but if we go up like we did with Billy or like Cardiff you will be coming straight down.Going up like Fulham and Wolves have,give you a much better chance of doing well in the premier league and let’s face it more enjoyable to watch.I don’t expect Derby to play like Barcelona but I do expect us to play on the front foot with the ball played to feet not hoofed to the corner flag and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, David said: You may have done, but how do you think it would have gone down had Mel sacked Rowett 5 months after giving him a new contract? I wouldn't have given him another one. If you can't keep hold of a manager in January of his 1st year with you,I'd argue that he's just not that into you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I always thought the Derby Way to be just a smokescreen to cover Clement’s sudden fall from grace. Might be wrong obviously ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Alpha said: Aren't some of those Brum managers from when they were in the PL? But anyway, does being Birmingham's 2nd highest win % and Derby's 5th since 2000 really count for success? Especially when it makes Wassall the 2nd. I know he's not clueless. But you also have some fans saying he's successful, he is one of the most promising young English managers and comparing him to Warnock. He's not succeeded anywhere yet. He perhaps had the chance at Burton and Brum but left and was sacked. Simon Grayson has shown more imo. And the comparison with Warnock is not a good one because he's got a massive CV to pull out with a shoebox of medals. I only went as far as win percentages which you brought up, I didn’t look any deeper than that. Pretty lazy really as they are all meaningless without context. I wasn’t a Nigel Clough fan but his percentage includes the clean up job from Jewell and Davies, Clement had £30m worth of investment. To be honest my interest in the history of Birmingham City is on the same level as who wins that Love Island. My argument isn’t really over was he successful or not, we all have our own individual targets that we judge managers despite what the club expect from the manager. It’s the clueless stuff I’m against, the year of Dave Bassett Jr which he wasn’t, far from it. I’m down with the snake stuff though, all day long ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, David said: Jim Smith, George Burley and Steve McClaren are the only managers that have played football which would be acceptable these days, that’s 10 years of football in my time at 36 years old. Some fans with these high demands are a lot younger than myself, I’m not sure where it’s come from other than McClaren’s brief tenure. Sky Sports, YouTube with social media used to gain momentum? There's a big gap between what Rowett played and what Mac played. I don't expect total football but Rowett built a counter attacking team that would try to counter when it wasn't on. Just careless kick and chase when teams weren't pushing on us. Way too often there was no care with the ball. No plan other than to counter their plan. I bet we only won 1 game from a losing position? For me i just imagined a future of that. Doing that in the PL. Watching us defend for 65-70% of the ball time. That doesn't make me want to give up Saturdays for. So what's the point? Fairly sure others felt the same and attendances would have reflected that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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