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1 hour ago, ramblur said:

3 million of that was ours.

Unless my eyes deceive me, according to that Deloitte Report ( Chart 16 on Page 27), 
£140 million of that total Championship Club Debt of £1.8 billion was Derby County's.

The only Clubs with bigger Net Debt, according to Deloitte, were Newcastle/Brighton/Fulham, 
and all three of those Teams are now in the Premier League. The fifth biggest Net Debtors,
according to Deloitte, were Cardiff, and they too are now in the Premier League. 

So the financial gamble taken by Newcastle/Brighton/Fulham/Cardiff paid off for them, having
reached the Promised Land of the Premier League. Mel's gamble has not yet paid off.

Now before you start going off on one again, I am not saying that Derby County's Net Debt in 2017
was £140 million, I am merely pointing out that the Deloitte Report claims that to be the case.

Presumably Deloitte have failed to appreciate the subtle financial intricacies of the DCFC/Sevco/
Mel Morris set-up that you have so painstakingly detailed to this Forum. 

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1 hour ago, ramblur said:

I've been saying for ages, and over more posts than I care to remember, that wages are too high, and need to come down significantly, long before Ramnut poked his snout in. He seems to think he's some kind of pioneer in this respect. 

Off you go again inventing stuff......

 

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5 hours ago, RamNut said:

Off you go again inventing stuff......

 

I don’t think he can see your replies?

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6 hours ago, mice_elf said:

Unless my eyes deceive me, according to that Deloitte Report ( Chart 16 on Page 27), 
£140 million of that total Championship Club Debt of £1.8 billion was Derby County's.

The only Clubs with bigger Net Debt, according to Deloitte, were Newcastle/Brighton/Fulham, 
and all three of those Teams are now in the Premier League. The fifth biggest Net Debtors,
according to Deloitte, were Cardiff, and they too are now in the Premier League. 

So the financial gamble taken by Newcastle/Brighton/Fulham/Cardiff paid off for them, having
reached the Promised Land of the Premier League. Mel's gamble has not yet paid off.

Now before you start going off on one again, I am not saying that Derby County's Net Debt in 2017
was £140 million, I am merely pointing out that the Deloitte Report claims that to be the case.

Presumably Deloitte have failed to appreciate the subtle financial intricacies of the DCFC/Sevco/
Mel Morris set-up that you have so painstakingly detailed to this Forum. 

The basis of preparation states that they are reporting on the figures of parent companies where clubs are part of a group of companies.

So in summary, the report is completely useless. 

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Posted (edited)

Dear oh dear this isn't difficult. Derby County doesn't owe Mel Morris anything. Mel Morris Derby County owner owes himself £90m. Derby County owner Mel Morris MAY have an opportunity to enjoy some of the profits from DCFC but only if we ever make any. 

On a separate matter altogether it is not healthy for any club or business to make regular losses. Having said that if we wish to recruit players who potentially make the difference in this league  then we need someone like Mel to compete with the grossly unfair parachute payment clubs or the other billionaire chairman.

If we don't wish to look at those types of players then currently we as fans need a massive change in expectation and attitude. Personally I cant see that ever happening. 

Edited by The Scarlet Pimpernel

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3 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Dear oh dear this isn't difficult. Derby County doesn't owe Mel Morris anything. Mel Morris Derby County owner owes himself £90m. Derby County owner Mel Morris MAY have an opportunity to enjoy some of the profits from DCFC but only if we ever make any. 

On a separate matter altogether it is not healthy for any club or business to make regular losses. Having said that if we wish to recruit players who potentially make the difference in this league  then we need someone like Mel to compete with the grossly unfair parachute payment clubs or the other billionaire chairman.

If we don't wish to look at those types of players then currently we as fans need a massive change in expectation and attitude. Personally I cant see that ever happening. 

I suppose the point is that if Mel stops covering the loses then we are screwed but isn't that the case for 3/4 of the top 2 divisions which are reliant upon the owners ongoing support?  The leagues are reliant on debt, it would be interesting to see how many clubs survive/compete based on income generated from business activity alone

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1 minute ago, Spanish said:

I suppose the point is that if Mel stops covering the loses then we are screwed but isn't that the case for 3/4 of the top 2 divisions which are reliant upon the owners ongoing support?  The leagues are reliant on debt, it would be interesting to see how many clubs survive/compete based on income generated from business activity alone

Exactly Spanish. If Mel met the debts of the contracts currently entered into under his stewardship then screwed only in the sense we would have to cut the cloth to fit which may mean relegation.

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ramblur
On 13/06/2018 at 00:33, mice_elf said:

Unless my eyes deceive me, according to that Deloitte Report ( Chart 16 on Page 27), 
£140 million of that total Championship Club Debt of £1.8 billion was Derby County's.

The only Clubs with bigger Net Debt, according to Deloitte, were Newcastle/Brighton/Fulham, 
and all three of those Teams are now in the Premier League. The fifth biggest Net Debtors,
according to Deloitte, were Cardiff, and they too are now in the Premier League. 

So the financial gamble taken by Newcastle/Brighton/Fulham/Cardiff paid off for them, having
reached the Promised Land of the Premier League. Mel's gamble has not yet paid off.

Now before you start going off on one again, I am not saying that Derby County's Net Debt in 2017
was £140 million, I am merely pointing out that the Deloitte Report claims that to be the case.

Presumably Deloitte have failed to appreciate the subtle financial intricacies of the DCFC/Sevco/
Mel Morris set-up that you have so painstakingly detailed to this Forum. 

In view of the smart comments that have been flying around, I was just going to wait until Tuesday, when I can finally make my exit. However, it would be discourteous of me not to reply.

Firstly, apologies, because I didn't see that bit. After the general point on debt, I hadn't foreseen that more would come later in the article.

I wonder what the EFL consider to be the Club accounts, when assessing FFP?  If they were to concur with Deloitte's interpretation, then instead of our being able to take advantage of £39m over 3 years, this would become a meagre £15m. FFP losses can onl;y be covered by debt up to this level - above this figure means that losses must be covered by equity.  

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ramblur

I mentioned a 15/16 profit of c£60m in Sevco 5112, and similar operating profits in Sevco 5113 and Global Derby. I also said there was a trick, but no lies. If anyone tries to produce analysis on the basis of the whole group, it's a bit pointless if that person doesn't have a clue what's happening within the group.

The 'trick' was that massive exceptional items transformed the combined c£120m profit in the latter 2 to a combined c£10m loss. This was all to do with tidying up the legacy of inter company loans. There was also a massive capital reduction in Global Derby ( more tidying), which led to a paper profit of c£60m, to replace the reduced capital. A  (paper) dividend was then allocated to Sevco 5113, and then passed on to Sevco 5112, hence the £60m paper profit. No cash at all was involved, and Mel isn't going to benefit from this (unless anyone thinks he's going to do a 'Mr Bean's Christmas Card' , write a cheque to himself and put in an envelope,post through the letter box, and then view it with delighted surprise when he goes in through the door.)

All of this has nothing at all to do with the activities of the Club, and this is my point. Be very wary of anyone who mentions the consolidated accounts when I'm gone (unless qualified so to do).

Come Tuesday I had been toying with the idea of having my account scrambled, which would have meant I could come on next April to give my take on the (relevant) accounts. The thought of  devoting 1 second of my time for the benefit of some on here makes me want to vomit . I'm genuinely sorry for the rest of you, but come Tuesday I'm going to take the option of permanent cancellation, and have no intention of ever posting again.

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