Work

[McRainy]

What is your relationship with work? Would you be happier if you worked less?

Could you imagine, or would you wish for, a society where we had a different kind of relationship with work?

Do you think this will become necessary, or inevitable, with advances in automation and pressures on the environment?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jan/19/post-work-the-radical-idea-of-a-world-without-jobs

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Lambchop said:

What is your relationship with work? Would you be happier if you worked less?

Love / hate - sometimes it engenders a massive sense of purpose and pride but for the most part, it bolis my swede. Loads of stress, sleepless nights and confused and tangled priorities. If I could, I'd stop tomorrow and do something purely for the love of it. That or go to the pub a lot all the time. I definitely like to spend more time with friends and loved ones but I can't complain too much on that score anyway.

Could you imagine, or would you wish for, a society where we had a different kind of relationship with work?

Yes and yes. For those whose work is something less than vocational, or even a passion, it'd be nice to see a better work / life balance. One has to work to pay the bills, of course, but it'd be lovely were so many folk not to feel enslaved by their jobs and beholden to those who right the cheques. I'm a raving hippy though!

Do you think this will become necessary, or inevitable, with advances in automation and pressures on the environment?

Far smarter folk than me say change is inevitable and I happen to agree. Automation is only one small part of the equation - AI is ultimately a greater threat, if threat is the appropriate term. A universal basic income (UBI) is the mechanism most bandied about to address the issue and economically it can work but I think the notion that it can replace all of an individual's income may be a bit of a stretch. Finland has trialled UBI with some positive outcomes, but the £500 a month would be very meagre fare for most of us, especially here in good old Blighty. Another issue might be that the 1% will not be keen to share their 50% more equally (which I'd imagine they'd have to) so either normal working folk will have to endure greater tax burdens or we'll have to have a revolution. Or we could just be like the Scando nations and have a working socialist government that actually runs the country for the benefit of the electorate and not the global multinationals.  Such companies would then be forced to pay more than the meagre 15M Euros in tax that Amazon paid on their 20 billion Euro European turnover. Were they to pay the standard corporation tax rates that small business owners have to endure in the UK, that figure would, it's fair to say, be many times the sums currently being contributed to the Exchequer. To provide some perspective, even after considerable reinvestment in the business in the last recorded tax year, Amazon recorded gross profits not far south of $5 billion.

It seems fair to assume, therefore, that these imbalances will have to addressed or we could see the percentile of us forced to live on or below the poverty line topping 50% inside 10 years and I am talking about the Western World here, not Sub-Saharan Africa. Those that figure such claims to be fanciful or even outlandish may wish to consider that figure in the US is already at one third of the total population which is both unsustainable and mildly terrifying. In so much, change is inevitable, the only question being, what said change will look like. 

 

[Boycie]

I wish I’d of been good enough to play football professionally.

Then I’d have to google what work was.

Instead of starting work early on a Saturday to get finished in time for the match, or sacrificing work and money to travel to away games midweek.

Anyway, I think the Europeans have the right idea with work, sleep in the afternoon.

[TigerTedd]

I’m wrangljng with this at the minute. I recently handed over the reigns of my business, so I get a reasonable income each month, but don’t have to do any work. 

Its not enough to retire on, its not mega bucks. But I only need to do a few days work a month to meet my needs now. 

At the minute im just enjoying being able to spend more time with my family. 

But I’ve got the quandary now of, do I:

a) enjoy the fact that ive got enough to live off, and loads of free time.

b) go get myself a proper job and earn enough to live off plus maybe an extra £2k of bonus money every month, which could take me from scraping along to living very comfortably. 

c) spend my free time concentrating on a new project I can get passionate about (but I’ve done enough of those to know that it can take up a lot of time, possibly a good chunk of money, and it might not work, but I’d enjoy it). 

I cant decide if I’m actually very lazy, and have only worked hard so far with the intention of getting myself to this position where I don’t actually have to work and can spend all day in my pants watching box sets. Or if I’m just taking a break and my natural urge to start new things will eventually kick in again. 

Ultimately, I think I’d love a society where we have a different relationship with work. Either way, I have got myself into a position where I get to choose what I do. I’m not a slave to the 9-5 lifestyle. I’m usually there to take my kids to school, pick them up, help them with home work, help my wife with bath time and bed time. And I wish everyone could be as lucky. 

[PistoldPete2]

Good question. I have largely only done jobs because they pay money. But I think you also need a sense of interacting with people in a controlled environment , a sense of purpose, some routine and also to keep yourself active, especially the brain. Work can provide all these things.

my problem with all of the jobs I have done is they have either been way too much, with impossible targets, or too much of the same thing, ie lacking in variety. Also you can't really choose the people that you work with, and there are some real ******* out there especially amongst the senior managers.

so yes I would be happy with a well paid part time job. Unfortunately that is almost a contradiction... Most part time jobs are not well paid even on a full time equivalent basis.

but I don't think the robots will take over anytime soon. I remember seeing a horizon tv programme , the chips are down , about the revolution that was coming due to development of silicon chips. That was 40 years ago. Most of the things predicted on the TV show have come true but it's been an evolution not a revolution and it certainly hasn't led to mass unemployment. 

[ketteringram]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

I wish I’d of been good enough to play football professionally.

Then I’d have to google what work was.

Instead of starting work early on a Saturday to get finished in time for the match, or sacrificing work and money to travel to away games midweek.

Anyway, I think the Europeans have the right idea with work, sleep in the afternoon.

There's probably one or two posters on here who are fond of an afternoon nap 

[ketteringram]

8 hours ago, Lambchop said:

What is your relationship with work? Would you be happier if you worked less?

This brings to mind, something that's always puzzled me. 

If I could magically have been able to do any job, Joe 90 style (ask your dad), then I still have no idea what I would have done all my life! 

[TigerTedd]

15 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

This brings to mind, something that's always puzzled me. 

If I could magically have been able to do any job, Joe 90 style (ask your dad), then I still have no idea what I would have done all my life! 

With you on that one. My cv is ridiculous. I’ve done all sorts of jobs and I still don’t know what I would do out of choice. Probably working at Blockbusters or the showcase was my favourite job ever. I’d love to own an old school video shop (like how vinyls making a comeback, one day people will get all nostalgic for vhs, I’m sure) or a single screen cinema or something. 

[Boycie]

38 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

There's probably one or two posters on here who are fond of an afternoon nap 

@David you’ve been called out!

[David]

Afternoon naps are a key part of my survival. 

When I wake up in the morning I reach for my phone, eating my breakfast I'm on the Mac, out the shower on the phone before reaching for the iPad or MacBook. 

After dinner I take an hour out. Rest my eyes. 

When I wake it's straight on the phone, missus comes home she gets a grunt at best as I'm reading. Can't do two things at once, how has your day been can wait. 

Have you seen what time it is? 11pm, time for bed, she's snoring I'm on the phone.

Thursdays are her day off. Every week I promise this one she has my full attention, stood in Tesco I'm being offered the choice of chicken or beef but I don't notice as I'm on my phone. 

If I'm ever single again this will be the reason why. 

But that hour after dinner, it's the only thing that keeps me going.

[Boycie]

I’m going to spam message him after lunch on Monday. Cazy Lunt.

[King Kevin]

I like my work ,many years ago I got myself into a position where if I didn't like it I could tell em to shove it .Believe me I have walked out of some big jobs but hey ho .

I have just allied for my OAP but can't imagine not working I would be bored stiff .I have seen a lot of my mates retire some early and it's not had the greatest effect on them both mentally or physically .

Having said that I have one mate whose had a hard physical job how I expect will benefit from a well earned rest.

 

[Boycie]

2 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

I like my work ,many years ago I got myself into a position where if I didn't like it I could tell em to shove it .Believe me I have walked out of some big jobs but hey ho .

I have just allied for my OAP but can't imagine not working I would be bored stiff .I have seen a lot of my mates retire some early and it's not had the greatest effect on them both mentally or physically .

Having said that I have one mate whose had a hard physical job how I expect will benefit from a well earned rest.

 

I know some jobbing brickies who are in their 70’s

 Not doing the big builds, small stuff, they tried retiring but found it difficult.

[King Kevin]

1 minute ago, Boycie said:

I know some jobbing brickies who are in their 70’s

 Not doing the big builds, small stuff, they tried retiring but found it difficult.

Fair play to them ,got to be fit at that age to carry on in that job.

[Boycie]

3 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

Fair play to them ,got to be fit at that age to carry on in that job.

 Must be, I see them knocking holes in walls and putting lintels in and it’s only after I think about their age. But they’re a last generation I think.  The rest will be thinking everyone else owes them a living, too many nowadays have never even had a job, never mind having to work into their 70’s

[David]

27 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I’m going to spam message him after lunch on Monday. Cazy Lunt.

The do not disturb feature on my iPhone is brilliant, brilliant I tell you. Say something did you? Sorry I didn't hear you...

[Bwash_Ram]

Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

[King Kevin]

35 minutes ago, Boycie said:

 Must be, I see them knocking holes in walls and putting lintels in and it’s only after I think about their age. But they’re a last generation I think.  The rest will be thinking everyone else owes them a living, too many nowadays have never even had a job, never mind having to work into their 70’s

Every generation gets softer ,I was talking to the old girl over road and she was on about people suffering from stress etc. She's 90 lives on her own ,drives [like a maniac] I'll tell you what  stress is  she said "it's when I was trying to do my ironing and the Germans were bombing us".

[McRainy]

1 hour ago, ketteringram said:

If I could magically have been able to do any job, then I still have no idea what I would have done all my life! 

I’ve never known what I want to be when I grow up, and I know lots of other people who feel the same way. I know what sort of activities and interests motivate and engage me, but they’re not things I can readily make a living out of. 

For me one of the big issues has been about control of my own time, but I am now realising this is because I am on the autistic spectrum and have PDA; I cannot stand another person determining what I should be doing all day, and how I should be doing it, so the 9-5 feels like hell for me.

Beyond paying the bills and being able to afford fairly modest leisure activities, I’m not interested in money, or ambitious in any way either. I’ve mostly been able to maximise autonomy and independence by qualifying to do work that is well enough paid to work part time; the exception being my last episode of full-time teaching, which sent my anxiety over the edge. 

This is why I’m interested in other people’s experience, because I honestly don’t know how people cope with it. We have a few short years on this planet to discover who we are and what life is about, and so much of it is spent in meaningless drudgery. I always admire people who manage to survive doing something they love, but they seem to be the exception. 

The article on post-work and some of the discussions on UBI start to address this. Where it has been tried, it seems that people flourish and are able to find more creative and fulfilling ways of living, both in terms of work and community relationships.

I expect it will only happen if it proves to be an economic necessity, but the signs are there that the lives of the majority could be more meaningful if they weren’t so shackled as wage slaves. Culturally, though, we are set up to identify ourselves as workers, so a shift away from that may not be easy for everyone. 

[SSD]

12 months ago I decide to shove my career down the toilet and start all over again. Working as a junior administrator at 17 then worked up to coordinator on business accounts with RR. Decent money for someone under 25 however after working in 3-4 different businesses I decided this wasn't for me. I never slated anyone where I've worked. The constant stress was unbearable. I can handle pressure but this at the next level where work controlled my life. No social life, nothing.

 

When I met other folks from different countries whilst I did abit of travelling I realised why be sad and miserable, why not do something I'd want to do. So I've gone back to college/uni and training to work in digital content. Journalism, some marketing work, some design work. Really enjoying it. Financially it has ruined me but I believe it'll come together. 

 

I always say to people with so many opportunities out there, don't be stuck in a job you hate. Don't let a job control you.