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Gypsy Ram

By Gypsy Ram
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LeedsCityRam

LeedsCityRam

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Not really sure that the Stockholm Syndrome is the appropriate analogy, maybe Emperor's New Coat would work better? That said, I do kind of get where you;re coming from as I was pretty astounded when Nigel was sacked as I could see glimpses of what was to follow. He'd built the side on buttons too whilst massively reducing the wage bill and that really dos take some nous. I also didn't rate Mac at all a that point but I don't mind admitting that I was wrong. Mac came in and re-jigged things with Eustace playing the CDM role and adopted a more attacking style which bar poor luck, would have seen us promoted that same season. The following year we were also going well until injuries ravaged the side. In so much I think it's fair to say both he and Nigel are decent managers.

This said, I agree that the the view that Mac would be a panacea for all our woes is a tad naive but for many it's not such a belief that drives the will to have him reinstated, it's a longing for the free-flowing football we played, the sheer excitement of it all, if you like. For my part, those days are gone and we should be looking to a new future. I'd hoped that under Rowett we could transition to something akin to Leicester under Pearson but for whatever reason, our progress of early season has stalled in spectacular fashion. Folk were able to overlook the style, or perceived lack thereof, while we were winning games, but with only four wins this year, that argument has become hard to defend. It's a great shame as Rowett remains a manager of some promise and I don't doubt he'll do well at some point but even I am no longer convinced that it'll be at Derby and I've been one of his staunchest supporters. I'd imagine that he'll remain in charge to the end of the season but I'm not convinced he'll still be in charge after that unless we somehow secure promotion. It's not impossible, it just seems highly unlikely, is all. 

I think our views are similar.. I thought Cloughie jnr went 6 months too early (let alone a firing the night of a Forest game) but am happy to admit my initial misgivings about McClaren were proven totally wrong. I'm saddened to read your analysis though as I know you were one of the posters who were prepared to give Rowett time. I hate instability at Derby - we're stricken by it year after year. I've said in previous posts I would prefer a progressive style (a la Burley's 04/05 team) but more than anything, I want a manager to be given some time. Rowett's football doesn't excite me... (and to be fair Mac2 wasn't much better)  but I do understand his plans, if not the personnel/tactics he's attacking it with. If he'd introduced young, vibrant players , I'd get it. I feel he's fallen into the trap that many managers fall into...aka experience is key (it isn't), the irony being his core game plan  (high pressing, high energy) relies on exactly the opposite of what he has signed since his 13 months in charge. 

I come back to the same argument...we're weighed down by expectation. I bet Rowett (if he leaves us) goes up with Preston/Millwall/Ipswich and then we all go...why not us?!!! If we're in this dilemma this time next year, get shot but until then, I say stay patient & play smart. I fear he won't get that chance that though.

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Comrade 86

Comrade 86

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think our views are similar.. I thought Cloughie jnr went 6 months too early (let alone a firing the night of a Forest game) but am happy to admit my initial misgivings about McClaren were proven totally wrong. I'm saddened to read your analysis though as I know you were one of the posters who were prepared to give Rowett time. I hate instability at Derby - we're stricken by it year after year. I've said in previous posts I would prefer a progressive style (a la Burley's 04/05 team) but more than anything, I want a manager to be given some time. Rowett's football doesn't excite me... (and to be fair Mac2 wasn't much better)  but I do understand his plans, if not the personnel/tactics he's attacking it with. If he'd introduced young, vibrant players , I'd get it. I feel he's fallen into the trap that many managers fall into...aka experience is key (it isn't), the irony being his core game plan  (high pressing, high energy) relies on exactly the opposite of what he has signed since his 13 months in charge. 

I come back to the same argument...we're weighed down by expectation. I bet Rowett (if he leaves us) goes up with Preston/Millwall/Ipswich and then we all go...why not us?!!! If we're in this dilemma this time next year, get shot but until then, I say stay patient & play smart. I fear he won't get that chance that though.

I can't really argue with any of that. I just feel he has irrevocably lost the dressing room and his post-match interview today will only make things worse. If that's true, there's seemingly no way back. I've argued for stability for ever it seems and it's so bloody frustrating that we keep shooting ourselves in the foot like this. If he does go then we simply must ensure that we replace him with the right type of manager and then give that guy two full seasons to shape the team as required. This revolving door stuff has simply got to stop. Folk continuously cite Watford but I think them achieving promotion after piling through managers like beers at a stage do was as much luck as judgement. Ironically, the season they went up my Watford mates said we were by far the best team they'd played that year. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

Anyway, keep the faith pal, we'll get there one day! :thumbsup: 

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RodleyRam

RodleyRam

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, eddie said:

With the dross, ne'er-do-wells and losers now at the club which need scraping out in order to make a clean start, I fear we need Nigel Clough again.

I am always fascinated by the Clough debate. We aren't any further ahead than when he was sacked last time but our future looks depressingly similar to when he was first appointed. Makes you wonder what might have been. I loved Nigel and would have him back in an instant. However, I fear he'd never survive the toxic environment within the fan base.

In saying that I think we need to get out of the cycle of going to former players and former managers.

In answer to the OP... No to Mac3. I kind of like the guy but he's not going to be able to recreate the play-off final team. He's proven over the years he's a decent coach but make no mistake that was Nigel's team with a couple of exquisite loans brought in on the back of Mac's former reputation. No way is he the one to create a winning squad from this point.

As for Rowett, I am not a fan but realistically who else is there? I'd be tempted to even give him next season with the explicit instructions that he has to improve the footballing output and give the players license to actually play proper football. At the moment they look **** scared and that only serves to bring about performances where you lose 7-2 to the combined forces of Burton and Sunderland. 

Too many performances like those and you have to fear for him though.

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Old Spalding Ram

Old Spalding Ram

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11 hours ago, 86 points said:

Pains me to say it but I completely agree. It's been a very long time since I've been so disenchanted with so many of our players. Never thought I'd say it, or even come close, but Vydra's attitude absolutely ****** stinks. Whatever he and others feel about the whole gamut of issues at the club right now, is it too much to ask that they get their heads down and work for 90 minutes a week? There'll be folk on this forum who are struggling in poorly paid jobs just to feed their kids. This team has totally lost touch with the fans and worse still, they seem to care not one jot. That I just can't forgive. 

This post from 86 points should be converted to Times New Roman font size 24 in bold and then printed on shiny glossy A3 paper, laminated and then attached to the windscreen of every Bentley, Range Rover, Maserati, Lamborghini and Ferrari that rolls up to the match day car park.  

Season ticket renewal, yesterday's performance bordered on corporate theft!

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IlsonDerby

IlsonDerby

Posted
Posted

Stability is only important when you have the right manager in that is moving is in the right direction (however slowly that might be) think Cloughs first few years. He moved us forwards on and off the pitch but at a very slow pace. Stability was key then. 

Stability will again be key when we get a manager who begins to try and play a game that takes the match to the opposition rather than sits off at home against bottom of the league etc. 

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Might as well as call this thread 'Stockholm Syndrome'. I've lost count of the amount of mates/acquaintances who are astounded that Derby rate McClaren at all. Outside of Derby, he's a laughing stock...why is that @Roy Mac5???  Why can't he get a job 18 months after being dismissed by Derby?!... And it it worked in terms of him getting the Newcastle job. 

Why are managers out of work? Why do the same old Prem has beens keep getting jobs? Why hasn't another club signed up Mac?

What do any of those matter - they don't affect Mac's record which includes successes that MOST managers will never have. Can't be bothered to go through it all again. But if you can't see what Mac bought to Derby, both times...

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GadFly

GadFly

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

Some people are so willfully living in the past that I pity for them. Do they still go on about their first girlfriend infront of their wives, wouldn't be surprised.

And we claim the Gumps live in the past. This needs to stop, it's embarrassing and hypocritical. There ARE other managers out there besides Mac, believe it or not. 

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GadFly

GadFly

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Go on then

One that plays good football not hoofball and has the experience and background/contacts etc to sort us out?

Does "sort us out" really mean "get us promoted"? Sounds pretty entitled to me. 

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