Wolverhampton Wanderers v Derby County

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

   It kinda works both ways though, our midfield do get a lot of possession, but do you see Vydra come to collect the ball from them? It's rare, maybe because of being man marked but if he's the focus point of this team then you need to find a way round it. It's arguable that Nugent runs round like a headless chicken a) to look like he's working without (achieving a lot) b) to cover Vydra. If you notice Nugent 'running' it's mostly deeper than you'd want your 'up top' striker. It's Nugent work around the defenders that there hasn't been enough. He might 'close down', so to speak. It if you were where you should be positionally it might not be the chasing shadows predicament he finds himself in a lot of the time. It used to happen with Ince too, could do great last ditch tackles sometimes defensively but if he was where he should be he doesn't have to it. It's not hiding per se I'm suggesting, it's not helping your team mate by giving him an option when they need one. It's fine when you want the ball, but it's the working for the team side that's lacking. 

Vydra for scoring the goals, doesn't make him exempt from any criticism. There's a massive flaw in how we play and in that midfield area he works in so he has to take a part of that. The team haven't played well for a long time, I'm not a huge advocate of how we have been playing. But again, Vydra is a big part of that as anybody else. He's a gifted and skilful player, but I'm not convinced he's a team player. Wolves tonight looked a class team, but they attack as a unit when we attack as a bunch of individuals.

Not a team player? Come on. That's a ludicrous point. What does he have to do to be a team player? If we have a full team of David Nugent's running round achieving nothing we'll look even more workmanlike than we already do. The criticism of Ince was bogus, yet people persisted with it, because they want someone to blame, and the skillful player who is surrounded by dross and so cannot achieve much is an easy target. Ince worked hard, as Vydra does too. He gets kicked off the park, and he always puts himself about. He creates chances whenever he can, and he's a goal scorer. 

But hey, let's sign some more players that ''work hard'' and are ''team players'' cos who needs your Ince and Vydra's, let's sign some more players like Weimann! That'll be a really balanced, creative attacking lineup. 

[Leicester Ram]

Also, not sure if people will agree with this, we might be better off if a really good bid for Vydra comes in this summer. 

He’s good but holds the attacking shape back. Too far up the pitch, leaves the midfielders with no one to pass to. Better off investing in a few young players who compliment each other, definitely a midfielder to cover Huddlestone/Thorne’s lack of pace.

If we got a big fee and a few players out, I’d love Kasey Palmer.

As disappointed I am with the tactics in key parts of this season, Rowett deserves a chance to go at it again with us. He’s done enough to justify a second season, I wasn’t sure for a minute there but I think he’ll try to be more expansive next season.

[Millenniumram]

3 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

It’s not even that passing football is the only way to play, it really isn’t. It’s just that it’s a good attacking weapon that are refusing to utilise or even attempt.

There’s this complete disregard for anything resembling short quick passing, it’s constant lumps and getting it forward no matter how unlikely the pass is. It’s how you’d attack if you had completely talentless players up top and we’re taking all skill out of the process. There’s no chance for players like Lawrence to really shine.

We can’t turn it on when we need to either. Tonight’s not the only example of needing a goal but not getting anywhere near scoring. Who really thinks if we need a goal in the last 20 minutes we’ll get it?

Big problem that needs solving, this attacking play isn’t good enough over the course of a season to get us anywhere.

Think you can go even further and say once we’ve conceded the first goal does anyone really see us getting anything out of the game? Our whole game is based around getting the first goal, sitting back and countering. When it works it’s fine, but you’ve got to have other ways to score. As soon as the opposition score and can sit back we have no response but constant lumped balls from the back. We have no way to unlock a defence at all, we’re so one dimensional it’s scary.

[JG400]

39 minutes ago, Derby blood said:

They have not got a clue, ask them who they want and they say nothing, Wolves are very good at this level, so let's see were we end up at the end of the season, if we get in the playoffs, then it's been a good first season for Mr Rowett.

What I dont want is more of the same next season and that is what we are going to get with this team and set up , I have zero confidence that this team can progress through the playoffs , doesnt mean they won't just means I have no confidence they will , next season we will have West Brom + Southhampton with plenty of money , plus perm any one from 10 teams in the championship who are building a challenge , we have got to look forward to no significant investment and an Oldest team in the league ageing further

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

 He’s done enough to justify a second season, I wasn’t sure for a minute there but I think he’ll try to be more expansive next season.

He didn't show that last season, nor this. Why on earth would he next season?! 

[europia]

6 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Massive overreaction by some to this defeat. Our shortcomings were exposed by one of the best teams I’ve seen in the Championship and Ruben Neves the best player ever to grace the championship. You can’t win, press them they pick you off sit off them they dominate the ball. Defence and attack they are supreme. I think they could finish top 7 in the premier league now without any more signings. I think they are that good. 

We started in the right way but as soon as we gave away a stupid goal early it was curtains. Wolves have won 26 times in 29 games when they have scored first. Then we couldn’t get near them, don’t think it’s desire I just think we didn’t have the legs to get near them. Now people can argue that’s Rowett’s fault, but in my view we didn’t have legs in midfield last season only Bryson (when fit) and Hughes who moved onto better things. 

We need to play better but there will not be such a gulf in class against any of the other teams in the playoffs. Fulham will get automatic and I think we have enough to trouble anyone else except Wolves and Fulham.We will get the points we need for the playoffs as everyone has to play everyone. I think 2 wins and a draw from last 5 matches will do it.

if we lose to burton, then the over the top reactions seen tonight will be justified.

Maybe you are right. I guess may people are envious of Wolves, who have found a top manager, had a big injection of cash and spent it brilliantly. By contrast we have had  a string of misfits managing the club, had a big injection of cash and bought a load of dross. 

[Sexydadbod]

3 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Also, not sure if people will agree with this, we might be better off if a really good bid for Vydra comes in this summer. 

He’s good but holds the attacking shape back. Too far up the pitch, leaves the midfielders with no one to pass to. Better off investing in a few young players who compliment each other, definitely a midfielder to cover Huddlestone/Thorne’s lack of pace.

If we got a big fee and a few players out, I’d love Kasey Palmer.

As disappointed I am with the tactics in key parts of this season, Rowett deserves a chance to go at it again with us. He’s done enough to justify a second season, I wasn’t sure for a minute there but I think he’ll try to be more expansive next season.

Ryan Woods, Marcus Maddison, a left back, Palmer and a quality forward(as well as bringing Martin, Bryson back from loan to give us the option to play 4-3-3 again). Lowe, Elsnik, Guy and Thomas as reliable backups to help save money.

Sell Vydra, Nugent, Jerome, Butterfield, Forsyth, Olsson, Johnson. We need to find buyers for all of those players though.

[Andicis]

7 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Also, not sure if people will agree with this, we might be better off if a really good bid for Vydra comes in this summer. 

Same as we were better off when we got rid of Ince, Hughes, Martin etc. I disagree. You need the top quality player to turn to, a precocious talent who can make a difference in tight games. That is Vydra. We won't use the funds properly if we sold Vydra, so I'd much rather keep him than be rid of him. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, McLovin said:

Ryan Woods, Marcus Maddison, a left back, Palmer and a quality forward(as well as bringing Martin, Bryson back from loan to give us the option to play 4-3-3 again). Lowe, Elsnik, Guy and Thomas as reliable backups to help save money.

Sell Vydra, Nugent, Jerome, Butterfield, Forsyth, Olsson, Johnson. We need to find buyers for all of those players though.

Nobody will buy Nugent, Jerome, Butterfield or Johnson. They're on huge wages, and in the twilight of their careers. You expect to raise the funds to buy Woods, Palmer and a quality forward? 

[JG400]

9 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

If we got a big fee and a few players out, I’d love Kasey Palmer.

I thought I would like to sign him but last few games he has looked poor  , loses the ball to easily , sad because in flashes looks great , actually sign him up , hes a typical derby player 

[Leicester Ram]

3 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Think you can go even further and say once we’ve conceded the first goal does anyone really see us getting anything out of the game? Our whole game is based around getting the first goal, sitting back and countering. When it works it’s fine, but you’ve got to have other ways to score. As soon as the opposition score and can sit back we have no response but constant lumped balls from the back. We have no way to unlock a defence at all, we’re so one dimensional it’s scary.

You’re spot on, we overly rely on not conceding at all.

In our purple patch this season, we conceded about a goal a month which was partly defensive solidity but also a fair bit of luck. This style of play is reliant on an unsustainable level of clean sheets to be successful, it can probably sneak us into the play-off’s but makes it difficult for us to win in the play-off’s when you sometimes just need to get a goal or it’s season over.

Completely unbalanced team, doesn’t need a complete overhaul but definitely a makeover.

[TuffLuff]

13 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Not a team player? Come on. That's a ludicrous point. What does he have to do to be a team player? If we have a full team of David Nugent's running round achieving nothing we'll look even more workmanlike than we already do. The criticism of Ince was bogus, yet people persisted with it, because they want someone to blame, and the skillful player who is surrounded by dross and so cannot achieve much is an easy target. Ince worked hard, as Vydra does too. He gets kicked off the park, and he always puts himself about. He creates chances whenever he can, and he's a goal scorer. 

But hey, let's sign some more players that ''work hard'' and are ''team players'' cos who needs your Ince and Vydra's, let's sign some more players like Weimann! That'll be a really balanced, creative attacking lineup. 

You are missing all my points some what but anyway. To be a team player, maybe to do more of the things I posted about (positioning, helping out he two DM more?). Wasn't the ince criticism about being lazy or summit? I can't remember, but I didn't say anything about that im talking more about being positionally aware and working to not leave gaps behind you for teams to exploit. Don't think I said Vydra was lazy either? More that he needs to show more support to someone like Nugent when they are in danger? I'm not slandering him, it's an observation about how we are playing. Also I didnt say he didn't put himself about?

That last bit has nothing to do with what was being said, so...yeah?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

11 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Massive overreaction by some to this defeat. Our shortcomings were exposed by one of the best teams I’ve seen in the Championship and Ruben Neves the best player ever to grace the championship. You can’t win, press them they pick you off sit off them they dominate the ball. Defence and attack they are supreme. I think they could finish top 7 in the premier league now without any more signings. I think they are that good. 

We started in the right way but as soon as we gave away a stupid goal early it was curtains. Wolves have won 26 times in 29 games when they have scored first. Then we couldn’t get near them, don’t think it’s desire I just think we didn’t have the legs to get near them. Now people can argue that’s Rowett’s fault, but in my view we didn’t have legs in midfield last season only Bryson (when fit) and Hughes who moved onto better things. 

We need to play better but there will not be such a gulf in class against any of the other teams in the playoffs. Fulham will get automatic and I think we have enough to trouble anyone else except Wolves and Fulham.We will get the points we need for the playoffs as everyone has to play everyone. I think 2 wins and a draw from last 5 matches will do it.

if we lose to burton, then the over the top reactions seen tonight will be justified.

It's a cumulative reaction though...it's a build up of watching poor football over some time.....losing to wolves isn't the issue....and let's face it,tonight's reaction is just building on the Sunderland game...if we lose to Burton then you will see the meltdown proper.

I'm just mystified as to how anyone is happy with this football...is it just because Gary was our local hero??

 

[Kernow]

Just now, McLovin said:

Ryan Woods, Marcus Maddison, a left back, Palmer and a quality forward(as well as bringing Martin, Bryson back from loan to give us the option to play 4-3-3 again). Lowe, Elsnik, Guy and Thomas as reliable backups to help save money.

Sell Vydra, Nugent, Jerome, Butterfield, Forsyth, Olsson, Johnson. We need to find buyers for all of those players though.

There lies to problem. I don't realistically seeing any of them leaving permanently unless they have a real hunger to take a pay cut to go elsewhere and play more. There's not a chance a team will come in who will 1. offer real money for them and 2. be able to afford their wage demands. I obviously don't know the figures they're on, but I can't imagine any are cheap. I'd loan Butterfield and Johnson out and get as much of their wages covered as possible then let them go next year when we are no longer contractually obliged to employ them.

[clarkeram7]

You're deluded if you think Vydra is anywhere near what's wrong. End of discussion, he scores goals and works hard. He's the only player other than Lawrence in very short bursts who offers us any sort of attack threat. 

[JG400]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Lowe, Elsnik, Guy and Thomas as reliable backups to help save money

ftfy

 

[Sexydadbod]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Same as we were better off when we got rid of Ince, Hughes, Martin etc. I disagree. You need the top quality player to turn to, a precocious talent who can make a difference in tight games. That is Vydra. We won't use the funds properly if we sold Vydra, so I'd much rather keep him than be rid of him. 

I can understand both of your points because we seem to replace our best players with inferior versions. However, as good as Vydra has been, he makes us predictable to play against. When he doesn’t score, he doesn’t do as much as a number 10 should. He also restricts us to playing 4–2-3-1 as he doesn’t suit a 4-3-3. I think would he be ok in a diamond formation like he was at Watford but we don’t have the wing backs to provide width.

[Ibby]

We made Wolve look good.

[Andicis]

Just now, JG400 said:

ftfy

 

Um?? I didn't say that to begin with...?

[Rev]

Why on earth would Palmer drop down a division to play for a manager who has given him 20 mins at most in the vast majority of his time here?