Sam Rush

[Gringo]

Thanks for the info and looking at the track record of Mel's counsel, if I was Rush I would be very very afraid.

[duncanjwitham]

31 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Fair enough he got the order of the sacking procedure wrong from an hr point of view but I can see why it would have been difficult for him to remain calm in a meeting like that when he's discovered huge and I mean huge discrepancies in he way things should be done.

Things needed to be said, it can get heated and Mel had probably blown his top and fired/suspended rush without following protocol.

It's wrong but it's not wrong.

It is absolutely and utterly wrong though - the correct HR procedures for sacking someone should be simple, simple stuff for anyone who's ever owned a business.  If it's true and Mel did blow his top and sack him on the spot, then that's the last type of guy I want running Derby County.  I want someone who knows what they're doing, who takes the time to make good decisions and who follows through on those decisions.  Obviously we're all on the outside looking in, but the perception I have of Mel seems to be the exact opposite of that - we seem lurch from one thing to another without any thought or planning ("The Derby Way", "Pearson Hoof-ball!" "Mac 2", "Rowett-Ball", "Young hungry squad", "Clear route from the academy to the first team", "£40m spent on old crap players", "Big squad", "Small squad", "Head coach", "No, we want a Manager"), decisions seem to get made in the heat of the moment and we're permanently in a period of adjusting from the last crisis to the next one.

[StockholmRam]

1 hour ago, AutoWindscreens said:

Yes, the general rule is that anyone can ask for a copy, on payment of a fee.

I've seen Derby's statement of case, because it's available on one of my online subscriptions (I'm a lawyer).

Derby's lead counsel is someone who is described as "an expert courtroom bruiser": https://essexcourt.com/barrister/paul-mcgrath-qc/

AutoWindscreens..is that like a bargain basement lawyer?? Could have done with you for my parking ticket charge Auto....

[StockholmRam]

1 hour ago, coneheadjohn said:

Perhaps we should have signed Paul Ince for 700k?

He would slot in nicely.

He is too young for us.

[RamNut]

3 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

we seem lurch from one thing to another without any thought or planning ("The Derby Way", "Pearson Hoof-ball!" "Mac 2", "Rowett-Ball", "Young hungry squad", "Clear route from the academy to the first team", "£40m spent on old crap players", "Big squad", "Small squad", "Head coach", "No, we want a Manager"), decisions seem to get made in the heat of the moment and we're permanently in a period of adjusting from the last crisis to the next one.

.....And no decision is ever wrong.

[Andicis]

However shambolic this is, it certainly gave me a good chuckle! 

[Doodle]

15 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It is absolutely and utterly wrong though - the correct HR procedures for sacking someone should be simple, simple stuff for anyone who's ever owned a business.  If it's true and Mel did blow his top and sack him on the spot, then that's the last type of guy I want running Derby County.  I want someone who knows what they're doing, who takes the time to make good decisions and who follows through on those decisions.  Obviously we're all on the outside looking in, but the perception I have of Mel seems to be the exact opposite of that - we seem lurch from one thing to another without any thought or planning ("The Derby Way", "Pearson Hoof-ball!" "Mac 2", "Rowett-Ball", "Young hungry squad", "Clear route from the academy to the first team", "£40m spent on old crap players", "Big squad", "Small squad", "Head coach", "No, we want a Manager"), decisions seem to get made in the heat of the moment and we're permanently in a period of adjusting from the last crisis to the next one.

Very harsh and written with hindsight. He runs a big business not a one man band. To suggest he should know all the ins and outs of employment law is just ludicrous. You can’t know everything or control everything in a large organisation. That’s why he spent millions on employing people like Rush. If you feel let down and it’s your company and you can afford the compensation, then fire away. Your attempt to pretend to understand the machinations of this situation and who should have done what, border on stupidity. If you don’t like Mel, fine but at least be fair with your criticism and don’t let your ignorance cloud your opinion 

[ramblur]

2 hours ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Of course his name is Paul McGrath. Almost like he was picked on name alone..

But he's a defender. We need Mick Harford for the bruising.

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, AdamRam said:

Whilst I take your point on board, a 700k payment for example is something that would be noticed.  Having being in temporary charge of a business before, and in excess of the t/o that Derby do, we had controls in place for these instances and others.

Having one person able to hide 7.2m of payments which is quite a large percentage of the t/o and having the responsibility to do this is a failing, as I said one that’s surprising given that MM has become one of the richest individuals through building his businesses up.  All IMO of course :-)

It doesn't appear that £7.2m has gone out in one or two big payments though.

Plus some of it appears to be future contracted payments. 

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

The one thing that springs to my mind is never by a used car from Stephen Pearce. He must have world class powers of persuasion. As CFO and Club Secretary his job was look at every significant contract and piece of expenditure. It seems that Rush was playing fast and loose with Mel's money - and maybe GSE's too. Yet Pearce didn't spot it - which looks a bit like incompetence. And Mel hasn't sacked him for that incompetence - which looks breathtaking. How has Stephen Pearce talked his way out of that one?

Unless, of course Pearce did spot it and it took many months for him to convince Mel.

I assume he will be called to give evidence.

Presumably he must have known about any payments made. The issue will be whether Mel knew. And whether he knew whether mel knew. Its hard to believe that these issues never got discussed, and that the board were therefore in total ignorance, but that is what the club seem to suggest. All very odd.

[duncanjwitham]

12 minutes ago, Doodle said:

Very harsh and written with hindsight. He runs a big business not a one man band. To suggest he should know all the ins and outs of employment law is just ludicrous. You can’t know everything or control everything in a large organisation. That’s why he spent millions on employing people like Rush. If you feel let down and it’s your company and you can afford the compensation, then fire away. Your attempt to pretend to understand the machinations of this situation and who should have done what, border on stupidity. If you don’t like Mel, fine but at least be fair with your criticism and don’t let your ignorance cloud your opinion 

I don't think it's remotely harsh at all.  This isn't some weird, arcane corner of HR rules - disciplinary procedures are one of the most basic things that absolutely everyone who's ever had a job of any sort in this country (let alone owned a company that employees hundreds) should understand. There's just no excuse at all for it.  If Morris was convinced that Rush had been doing something wrong, then a proper investigation, and the proper procedures being followed would have made any court case that much stronger.  Firing someone on the spot (if that's what has happened), just makes it look like a kangaroo court.

And it's not that I don't like Mel, it's more that I really didn't want a fan owning the club.  Whilst I'm sure there are very good fan-owners, there's just too much temptation to think and react like a fan, not a rational business owner.  Does anyone actually think that the decision-making has been good since Mel has been here? 

[Chester40]

19 minutes ago, Doodle said:

Very harsh and written with hindsight. He runs a big business not a one man band. To suggest he should know all the ins and outs of employment law is just ludicrous. You can’t know everything or control everything in a large organisation. That’s why he spent millions on employing people like Rush. If you feel let down and it’s your company and you can afford the compensation, then fire away. Your attempt to pretend to understand the machinations of this situation and who should have done what, border on stupidity. If you don’t like Mel, fine but at least be fair with your criticism and don’t let your ignorance cloud your opinion 

Its obvious he took it personally. Sure if it were just someone lower down in marketing, admin, payroll etc he would have gone through the proper channels and handed it over to HR.

This time he has been furious/hurt at what he feels was a betrayal by his right hand man. He couldn't bear to have him around and summarily got rid. I think we can all imagine feeling like that ...same as marching into dresssing room and giving the players a piece of your mind.

Just hope its not the same feelings that are driving the agenda now....emotion over logic..and dragging the dirty linen out with little hope of winning.

 

[King Kevin]

7 hours ago, reveldevil said:

 

Thanks for that ,forgot what a tune that was.

[ramblur]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

The one thing that springs to my mind is never by a used car from Stephen Pearce. He must have world class powers of persuasion. As CFO and Club Secretary his job was look at every significant contract and piece of expenditure. It seems that Rush was playing fast and loose with Mel's money - and maybe GSE's too. Yet Pearce didn't spot it - which looks a bit like incompetence. And Mel hasn't sacked him for that incompetence - which looks breathtaking. How has Stephen Pearce talked his way out of that one?

Unless, of course Pearce did spot it and it took many months for him to convince Mel.

Funnily enough, my mind went back to a fans' forum in 15/16. Mel and Rush were seated at one end ( Gibbo was standing, out of camera view, just beyond, whilst Stephen Pearce was at the other end). At the end of the meet, Gibbo posed a question of his own, directed at SP. He mentioned the transfer spend (can't remember the figure, but I think it was well beyond £20m. If you were to add on agents' fees etc, it could easily have come near the c£30m to later appear in the accounts). SP, who I've noticed can be quite witty, leant forward, looked to his right and said (I thought jokingly at the time) 'You didn't tell me it was that much'. The thing I noticed, and I find it even more striking now, is that the faces of Mel and Rush were expressionless.

Maybe it wasn't a joke after all.

[Mick Harford]

25 minutes ago, ramblur said:

But he's a defender. We need Mick Harford for the bruising.

[ramblur]

2 minutes ago, Mick Harford said:

Vic has left the club.

Still a director of Stadia DCFC Ltd , as far as I can see ( unless a resignation hasn't yet landed at CH).

[RamNut]

Quote

According to court documents, two more payments under this agreement are still due — one of £125,000 on 1 September 2018 and another of £75,000 on 1 March 2019.

From that we can infer that payments made under the Ince Scouting Agreement were.....

Sept 16 125k

March 17 125k

sept 17 125k

march 18 125k 

i think we must have noticed....

But the damaging bit is.......

Quote

Mr Rush has asserted that verbal approval was given by the Footballing Committee for the agreement at the time of the acquisition of Tom Ince on 3 July 2015,

So...this implies that it is related to the transfer.

OUCH

[ramblur]

1 minute ago, Mick Harford said:

That's my boy.

[Mick Harford]

1 minute ago, ramblur said:

Still a director of Stadia DCFC Ltd , as far as I can see ( unless a resignation hasn't yet landed at CH).

Been told that he's left the club of his own accord I may add.

I must admit, I've found it strange that there has been no mention of it.

[King Kevin]

Shame really ,this season I have have losted interest for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe a bit of everything ,style of football the transfer policy etc ,

Whilst typing this I watched GR on the the TV who to be fair responded well to the question on this saga .However it ain't likely to encourage me to get off my arse and watch us tomorrow.