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5 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

He probably wouldn't have, difficult to say.

Maybe Mourinho is a better manager and Pep is a better coach?

Wouldn’t say that, both very different in their approach to the game and been successful. Who the best is will ultimately be decided by trophy count when they’ve both retired.

Isn’t this Guardiola’s first job where he is the manager? Title means very little I guess anyhow these days.

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14 minutes ago, David said:

Would Guardiola have won the Champions League with Porto and Inter? 

More ways to play football than the Guardiola way.

If anything Mourinho has proved himself without a bottomless pit, has Guardiola? 

Send em to Grimsby, now that’s a challenge.

Guardiola won the treble in his first season at Barca. Considering they finished 3rd the season before and in his debut campaign spent about the same as Aston Villa I wouldn’t say he did it on a bottomless pit.

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35 minutes ago, David said:

His trophy cabinet would suggest otherwise.

Where would you like to see Guardiola go next, somewhere that could be considered a challenge? 

I don’t think trophies represent how good a coach is.

I’d hazard a guess that more players have improved under Pep than under Mourinho.

I’d also go along with more players have decreased in ability under Mourinho than they have under Pep.

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Just now, Bris Vegas said:

Guardiola won the treble in his first season at Barca. Considering they finished 3rd the season before and in his debut campaign spent about the same as Aston Villa I wouldn’t say he did it on a bottomless pit.

88m Euros and a Messi ready and waiting to knock just the 38 goals in, not to mention Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol lying around, not a bad welcome mat to have....

It’s ok saying they finished 3rd the previous season, but the 4 seasons before that they had 2 titles and 2 runners up. But you know all this. 

Mourinho in his first season won the title at Porto, 86pts out of a possible 102, the following season did the League and CL double. £10m spent year 1, £9.5m year 2.

Yet it’s Mourinho that has to prove himself at a club without a bottomless pit? Come on Bris. 

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11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I don’t think trophies represent how good a coach is.

I’d hazard a guess that more players have improved under Pep than under Mourinho.

I’d also go along with more players have decreased in ability under Mourinho than they have under Pep.

Isn’t that what football is about? Winning trophies?

In 10, 20 years time nobody will remember Guardiola for improving De Bruyne, they will remember him for winning the title and any other trophy he collects with the team.

Look at Pelé, one of the greatest, barely gets mentioned that all but 31 goals were in the Brazilian League. 

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4 minutes ago, David said:

88m Euros and a Messi ready and waiting to knock just the 38 goals in, not to mention Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol lying around, not a bad welcome mat to have....

It’s ok saying they finished 3rd the previous season, but the 4 seasons before that they had 2 titles and 2 runners up. But you know all this. 

Mourinho in his first season won the title at Porto, 86pts out of a possible 102, the following season did the League and CL double. £10m spent year 1, £9.5m year 2.

Yet it’s Mourinho that has to prove himself at a club without a bottomless pit? Come on Bris. 

Where did I say Mourinho has to prove himself at a club without a bottomless pit?

All I said was it was a shame he didn’t take the Liverpool job instead of the Chelsea one. It would have been interesting to see if he could take on a team who wasn’t already a champion or weren’t the wealthiest club in the league. It would have been nice to see if he could actually coach top players to make them better.

Pep has improved countless players over the past decade. I’m struggling to think of many who have genuinely become better players under Mourinho or had the best season of their career under Mourinho.

 

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3 minutes ago, David said:

Isn’t that what football is about? Winning trophies?

In 10, 20 years time nobody will remember Guardiola for improving De Bruyne, they will remember him for winning the title and any other trophy he collects with the team.

Look at Pelé, one of the greatest, barely gets mentioned that all but 31 goals were in the Brazilian League. 

People will remember the clubs who play the best football and have trophies to go with it.

The Barca team under Pep will never be forgotten, and he has the chance to do it again at City.

People may remember Mou’s trophies, but he’s in danger of being remembered as a chequebook manager who played dour football.

With Pep’s coaching ability and the way his teams play, nobody will talk about how much money his teams spend. It becomes irrelevant.

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9 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Where did I say Mourinho has to prove himself at a club without a bottomless pit?

All I said was it was a shame he didn’t take the Liverpool job instead of the Chelsea one. It would have been interesting to see if he could take on a team who wasn’t already a champion or weren’t the wealthiest club in the league. It would have been nice to see if he could actually coach top players to make them better.

Pep has improved countless players over the past decade. I’m struggling to think of many who have genuinely become better players under Mourinho or had the best season of their career under Mourinho.

 

It’s not about individuals though is it, it’s a team game and success is shown with silver wear. Say Man City failed to win a trophy this year, no good walking into a meeting with the owners saying but I improved De Bruyne.

Porto finished 3rd in 01/02, last time they won the title was in 98/99. 

Mourinho arrived in 02/03, won the title. 03/04 they won the title and the CL.

Are Benfica, Sporting and Porto pretty much on par in terms of wealth?

Right there he’s done what you’re asking of him.

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18 minutes ago, David said:

It’s not about individuals though is it, it’s a team game and success is shown with silver wear. Say Man City failed to win a trophy this year, no good walking into a meeting with the owners saying but I improved De Bruyne.

Porto finished 3rd in 01/02, last time they won the title was in 98/99. 

Mourinho arrived in 02/03, won the title. 03/04 they won the title and the CL.

Are Benfica, Sporting and Porto pretty much on par in terms of wealth?

Right there he’s done what you’re asking of him.

But what’s that got to do with coaching ability? 

The thing is, Mourinho’s only saving grace is titles. 

If he goes to Liverpool instead of Chelsea and wins nothing, he gets sacked for naff football and nobody remembers him.

If Pep goes to Valencia instead of Barca and wins nothing, he’s still remembered fondly due to improving players and getting the team playing amazing football.

Mou’s saving grace is the titles he’s won. Nothing wrong with that.

The difference with Pep is they won’t just talk about his titles, they’ll talk about the way his teams play.

Did you know Pochettino has never won a trophy. This is the guy who is being touted as Real Madrid and PSG’s next boss. I read on a Spurs fansite that he is already being talked about as their third greatest ever manager - he hasn’t even won a trophy!

But regardless, his coaching ability is evident and speaks volumes. Pep is the same.

Mourinho? Nah... 

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2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

But what’s that got to do with coaching ability? 

The thing is, Mourinho’s only saving grace is titles. 

If he goes to Liverpool instead of Chelsea and wins nothing, he gets sacked for naff football and nobody remembers him.

If Pep goes to Valencia instead of Barca and wins nothing, he’s still remembered fondly due to improving players and getting the team playing amazing football.

Mou’s saving grace is the titles he’s won. Nothing wrong with that.

The difference with Pep is they won’t just talk about his titles, they’ll talk about the way his teams play.

Did you know Pochettino has never won a trophy. This is the guy who is being touted as Real Madrid and PSG’s next boss. I read on a Spurs fansite that he is already being talked about as their third greatest ever manager - he hasn’t even won a trophy!

But regardless, his coaching ability is evident and speaks volumes. Pep is the same.

Mourinho? Nah... 

“Only” saving grace is titles, those titles are what he is employed to win! You talk like it’s some secondary achievement when it’s the primary target. 

Pep could also go to Valencia, win naff all, improve nobody and be quickly forgotten. He hasn’t managed players at that level. Prove me wrong. 

Difference here being Mourinho has done exactly what you asked of him, whilst Pep hasn’t. 

Will Hughes was touted as a possible target for Barca, being touted means very little, Mourinho himself has been touted all season with the PSG job, even recently with Conte.

Mourinho has managed Real, why did he get the job if he hasn’t improved any players, what exactly did he have going for him? Titles.

Pochettino being Spurs 3rd greatest manager is no surprise, what competition does he have? Spurs are not a club that have a great history of winning titles, they have won the PL/First Division the same amount of times Derby have, who is Derby’s 3rd greatest manager?

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22 minutes ago, David said:

“Only” saving grace is titles, those titles are what he is employed to win! You talk like it’s some secondary achievement when it’s the primary target. 

Pep could also go to Valencia, win naff all, improve nobody and be quickly forgotten. He hasn’t managed players at that level. Prove me wrong. 

Difference here being Mourinho has done exactly what you asked of him, whilst Pep hasn’t. 

Will Hughes was touted as a possible target for Barca, being touted means very little, Mourinho himself has been touted all season with the PSG job, even recently with Conte.

Mourinho has managed Real, why did he get the job if he hasn’t improved any players, what exactly did he have going for him? Titles.

Pochettino being Spurs 3rd greatest manager is no surprise, what competition does he have? Spurs are not a club that have a great history of winning titles, they have won the PL/First Division the same amount of times Derby have, who is Derby’s 3rd greatest manager?

Do you even read my comments? Or do you just imagine things I've said and then try and debate them.

What have I asked of Mourinho? What are you actually talking about here? I've not asked anything of him. I've not said he must do this, that or the other. And Pep hasn't done what?

You're trying to drag me in to some imaginary debate you have going on in your head.

"It would be interesting to see how good Mourinho could be without a bottomless pit. It's a shame he never became the Liverpool manager when it was cited he would before moving to Chelsea. He wouldn't have been as financially backed as he was at Chelsea, it would have been a much greater challenge for him."

That was my quote, which you replied the same goes for Guardiola. I've not said Mourinho has to manage a team without a bottomless pit to prove himself. I said it would be good, from a coaching perspective, to see if he could take a Liverpool or so (a team without unlimited funds) and improve them. Actually improve the players, from a coaching persepctive.

Guardiola doesn't need to prove this. He is a world class coach. Most of the players he has had have improved under him, with many going public about that too. If he was at a Valencia, he would improve their players as that's what world class coaches do. Fans would get on his side too, even if he didn't win any trophies.

Would Liverpool fans get on Mourinho's side if they played crap football and didn't win anything? No, they wouldn't. So it's either win trophies or bust for him.

As for Guardiola, he doesn't need to win trophies to be at a top club like Spurs and be loved.

Tottenham have won 2 league titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 league cups, 2 uefa cups and one cup winners cup. If Pochettino leaves tomorrow, Juande Ramos would have won more trophies than him. As have at least another 5 managers.

So why is Pochettino ranked above them?

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8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Of the three squads he inherited, only one was a reigning champion. He turned Barcelona and City into serial winners.

 

He hasn't turned city onto serial winners yet Bris.

 

Come on pal I know you love the bloke but...

For the record he was probably my favourite Spanish player ever, love the way he played the game, love the way he talked about the game and still like him a lot now.

Hes no Nigel Clough though ?

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6 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Do you even read my comments? Or do you just imagine things I've said and then try and debate them.

What have I asked of Mourinho? What are you actually talking about here? I've not asked anything of him. I've not said he must do this, that or the other. And Pep hasn't done what?

You're trying to drag me in to some imaginary debate you have going on in your head.

"It would be interesting to see how good Mourinho could be without a bottomless pit. It's a shame he never became the Liverpool manager when it was cited he would before moving to Chelsea. He wouldn't have been as financially backed as he was at Chelsea, it would have been a much greater challenge for him."

That was my quote, which you replied the same goes for Guardiola. I've not said Mourinho has to manage a team without a bottomless pit to prove himself. I said it would be good, from a coaching perspective, to see if he could take a Liverpool or so (a team without unlimited funds) and improve them. Actually improve the players, from a coaching persepctive.

Guardiola doesn't need to prove this. He is a world class coach. Most of the players he has had have improved under him, with many going public about that too. If he was at a Valencia, he would improve their players as that's what world class coaches do. Fans would get on his side too, even if he didn't win any trophies.

Would Liverpool fans get on Mourinho's side if they played crap football and didn't win anything? No, they wouldn't. So it's either win trophies or bust for him.

As for Guardiola, he doesn't need to win trophies to be at a top club like Spurs and be loved.

Tottenham have won 2 league titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 league cups, 2 uefa cups and one cup winners cup. If Pochettino leaves tomorrow, Juande Ramos would have won more trophies than him. As have at least another 5 managers.

So why is Pochettino ranked above them?

You questioned what the potto title meant in terms of coaching?

How are you measuring improvement of players if it's not taking them from third to first. That's improvement right there.

The same improvement your giving pep huge credit for in his first season at Barca, and his second season at City.

 

Youve got to be honest with yourself Bris, you see Pep through different glasses than you see Jose, one you like a lot, the other not so much, that's natural.

You can't herald one for improving a set of players, then say the other hasn't done the same when the only measure that counts for those clubs is what they've won.

Ask ibrahimovic who is the better manager.

Ask the inter players whether Jose improved them.

They are both pure class as managers of football teams, one had a nicer more approachable personality than the other, one enjoys more stylish football.

 

Both should be held up as legends for what they've achieved.

Maybe YOU will choose to remember Jose as an anti football man, I guarantee 100% that the fans of his team's will remember his days in a much more positive light as will a hell of a lot of neutrals.

The guy might be a **** *** but in a football sense he's a genius and a one off.

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7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Do you even read my comments? Or do you just imagine things I've said and then try and debate them.

I do Bris, but you won’t hear a word said against Guardiola, he has a different set of rules to play by than others. 

Change Mourinho, Liverpool and Chelsea for Pep, Arsenal and Man City and this is the same as what others would like to see from Guardiola but you wouldn’t have it in the praise all that is Man City thread.

You spiral off into but Pep has improved individuals and play trophies off as some secondary achievement.

It would not be interesting to see Mourinho go to a club without a bottomless pit, because he’s done it and walked away with trophies.

It would be interesting to see Guardiola go to a club without a bottomless pit as he’s never done it.

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5 hours ago, David said:

I do Bris, but you won’t hear a word said against Guardiola, he has a different set of rules to play by than others. 

Change Mourinho, Liverpool and Chelsea for Pep, Arsenal and Man City and this is the same as what others would like to see from Guardiola but you wouldn’t have it in the praise all that is Man City thread.

You spiral off into but Pep has improved individuals and play trophies off as some secondary achievement.

It would not be interesting to see Mourinho go to a club without a bottomless pit, because he’s done it and walked away with trophies.

It would be interesting to see Guardiola go to a club without a bottomless pit as he’s never done it.

Pep is a much better coach than Mourinho. World class.

I  wouldn't even put Mourinho in the top three best coaches in the Premier League.

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2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Pep is a much better coach than Mourinho. World class.

I  wouldn't even put Mourinho in the top three best coaches in the Premier League.

Out of interest who would be 2nd and 3rd in your top 3?

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